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-   -   "Serious" Wind Protection For ZoomH1 (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/491470-serious-wind-protection-zoomh1.html)

Bruce Foreman February 9th, 2011 11:19 AM

"Serious" Wind Protection For ZoomH1
 
I've been testing prototype windmuffs made by thewindcutter.com for the ZoomH1 recorder. The problem is the mics on that thing are so super sensitive wind hitting any part of the body causes objectionable noise even if the mics are protected.

What thewindcutter.com folks have come up with is a totally enclosed design with velcro closure. It has a hole for tripod thread access, and a vinyl window to monitor the LCD.

They have given me permission to make public the last test I did for them in some "serious" up to 30MPH winds. Here is a link:


And here is a link to their page on the product for the ZoomH1:

http://www.thewindcutter.com/shop/in...roducts_id=801

And they have given me a coupon code for folks in these forums. Enter 10OFFNOW in the coupon box for $10 off....Good through the end of February.

I get nothing from this, I have no financial interest in the product or the company, and as a matter of fact I paid for the original version I ordered from them.

Chad Johnson February 9th, 2011 06:31 PM

Hey Bruce.

Thanks for the test. Though a lot of wind rumble was cut, I could still hear the rumble happening the whole time. But in wind that strong you can't expect perfection. I wonder how much of that remaining rumble could be cut in post, or by engaging a low-cut filter on the recorder (if it has one). The test here is pretty good. I however am curious about how this windcutter would hod up against the furry mic cover that only cover the mic - like redheads do. I don't expect the redheads to beat the windcutter, but it would be nice to hear the difference. And it would be nice to hear the low -cut filter / post processing as I mentioned.

I guess the next step after this would be to make a blimp that houses these little recorders!

Keep on testing Bruce! You're doing great work man.

Brian McKenna February 9th, 2011 07:40 PM

interesting.
i'm inspired to post a test i made some time ago of a diy windscreen...
...but maybe in another thread so as not to jack this one.

Quote:

And here is a link to their page on the product for the ZoomH1:
http://www.thewindcutter.com/shop/in...roducts_id=801
link not work

Bruce Foreman February 10th, 2011 10:55 PM

They must have changed something on their page structure.

Try this one:

StormChaser WindJacket to fit Zoom H1 [WC03-ZOOMH1-WINDJACKET] - $69.95 : TheWindCutter.com, Professional Microphone Windscreens

Bruce Foreman February 10th, 2011 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Johnson (Post 1616395)
Hey Bruce.

Thanks for the test. Though a lot of wind rumble was cut, I could still hear the rumble happening the whole time. But in wind that strong you can't expect perfection. I wonder how much of that remaining rumble could be cut in post, or by engaging a low-cut filter on the recorder (if it has one). The test here is pretty good. I however am curious about how this windcutter would hod up against the furry mic cover that only cover the mic - like redheads do. I don't expect the redheads to beat the windcutter, but it would be nice to hear the difference. And it would be nice to hear the low -cut filter / post processing as I mentioned.

It doesn't go absolutely silent, but what I hear in that test (with the windjacket closed) is essentially the same sounds I hear with the winds gusting and buffeting past my ears (with the headphones off). If you notice the spoken voice comes through clearly. The wind as I hear it (without it going through mics and a recording device) has two kinds of sound, one is a bit a "shrill" whining to moaning sound and the other is a bit of a roar. That's what we had the day of that test.

While it sounds a bit similar, the noise is nothing like the wind "scraping" over the mics or over part of the recorder body. That "abrasive" wind actually interferes with the mic pickup.

As far as comparison with the Redhead (I have one of those for the H1 also) the noise from the redhead in much milder winds and breezes is more than with the windjacket in 25-30mph winds.

The Windcutter Windjacket is almost as effective without the included foam windscreen but the sound is a bit cleaner with the foam.

Good comments on your part, though. If the winds are strong enough, nothing is going to help totally.

Chad Johnson February 11th, 2011 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Foreman (Post 1616959)

I think it's hard to judge the sound quality on this test since they covered it up with music. And compared to your real world test, their fan test had no rumble. Hmmm. Even blimps get some rumble. Low cut engaged? EQ in post? RX in post? I'm not saying I think anything, just saying those are the questions that come up.

Still it''s probably the best thing going, to cover the whole recorder that is. Price point is high. 56.00 is probably right on the money.

Brian McKenna February 11th, 2011 09:05 AM

k, here's the test i promised not to hijack the thread with: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-thin...nstration.html

Bruce Foreman February 11th, 2011 09:21 PM

Chad:

Try listening to it again. The music is used to give the "dry" part of the video a bit of flavor. It's run at a medium level for the intro, then when the demo guy starts speaking the music level is reduced so as not to interfere seriously with what he is saying.

When he gets to the actual demo segments the level is brought all the way down, no music is playing while he runs the fan.

When he runs the segment with the Windjacket closed I hear two distinct sounds, the "fan" (blades beating against the air), and the sound effects played from the laptop. What he wants you to compare is the overall sound with the fan "wind" hitting the foam windscreen and the almost total absence of that sound with the Windjacket closed.

The main difference between his demo and my test is that I was using real world winds (up to about 30MPH) coming across an open expanse of low valley out in the country while he was trying to simulate wind with a fairly "stout" fan. And I can hear a very little bit of what sounds like rumble in theirs (I'm listening with fair Sennheiser HD202's

Chad Johnson February 12th, 2011 12:25 PM

That's not true Bruce. They changed the video.

If you notice my message was on Feb 10th, and if you go to the youtube page, the date on the video now is Feb 11th. They read my message and changed the video. I'm not saying they removed rumble too, but I tend to believe independent tests more than in-house. And yes, still I think that this method of covering the whole recorder is the most effective.

Brian McKenna February 12th, 2011 05:28 PM

well, at the end of the video they mention something to the effect of "all sound in this video was recorded on this zoomH1", which is not true in regards to the music. a minor technicality of course.

would be nice if they let you hear the motor-cycle sound effect recorded without the fan on for comparison. if they're going to use a fan, then maybe a handheld recorder is a better idea. i really think that a stationary fan with a stationary recorder is too consistent an environment for a proper demonstration.

seems to me that a full enclosure is a good idea for such a small recorder, and it's obviously an effective solution... but i guess you'd need a remote control for operation?
from what i know, the real magic for eliminating windblast comes from establishing an isolated pocket of air between the screen and the microphones. with that in mind, i wonder if it wouldn't be more affective to have a bit of skeleton structure for making a bubble around the mics.... something that could slide or clip onto the recorder... perhaps a more expensive and cumbersome approach.. but maybe not.

Chad Johnson February 12th, 2011 06:25 PM

Then you've just got a blimp. That would be more expensive. At that point I say just use a mic in a blimp into the recorder.

I think their product is a good one. They just need to be open so it doesn't look like they are cheating the test. Like if they came out and said, "Hey we took your suggestion and removed the music during the test. We recorded the test without the low-cut engaged on the recorder, and we did absolutely no post processing to remove wind rumble. What you hear is absolutely a true representation of our product's effectiveness." I'm not saying they aren't being totally truthful. I'm just suggesting ways to make the test seem fair and balanced. People will sometimes fudge a little and hope it slips by, but they won't usually outright lie about the facts. So stating the facts to head off any questions is the best policy.

Bruce Foreman February 22nd, 2011 01:50 PM

Re: "Serious" Wind Protection For ZoomH1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Johnson (Post 1617498)
That's not true Bruce. They changed the video.

If you notice my message was on Feb 10th, and if you go to the youtube page, the date on the video now is Feb 11th. They read my message and changed the video. I'm not saying they removed rumble too, but I tend to believe independent tests more than in-house. And yes, still I think that this method of covering the whole recorder is the most effective.

Alright. You've got my independent test to look at FWIW. They may have changed the video, it's a family business and the guy in the video is one of the designers sons. It's more likely the designer noted music over the demo sound and told him to change that. I've worked very closely over the phone with the designer and there is a very strong sense of integrity and ethics in that family business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian McKenna (Post 1617590)
well, at the end of the video they mention something to the effect of "all sound in this video was recorded on this zoomH1", which is not true in regards to the music. a minor technicality of course.

I'm sure the guy in the video meant all sounds recorded during the test. The music was added in post.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Johnson (Post 1617498)
I think their product is a good one. They just need to be open so it doesn't look like they are cheating the test. Like if they came out and said, "Hey we took your suggestion and removed the music during the test.

People will sometimes fudge a little and hope it slips by, but they won't usually outright lie about the facts. So stating the facts to head off any questions is the best policy.

I don't want to sound like I'm "beating up" on you here, but music added in post, then changed or removed where it shouldn't be over demo is NOT fudging. We get in a rush to get something done and online and when a "goof" is noticed we change it.

You have two tests to review, theirs and mine, between the two I think a valid performance is shown, you can draw your own conclusions. It is much to their credit that they went out and borrowed an H1 to run their own tests to be sure I didn't skew mine and cause them to base part of their reputation on mine (they are working on one for the H2 and I loaned them mine for this).

This is not a large company with great resources, appears to be a tightly knit close working family biz with a strong sense of pride in the results they achieve.

Chad Johnson February 22nd, 2011 02:28 PM

Re: "Serious" Wind Protection For ZoomH1
 
Fair enough.

My "Fudge" comment was referring to the fact that I do not know if they had low cut engaged on the recorder, or of they cut any ow end rumble in post. That's all. I'm just saying that to cut off any questions like mine, they need to state that they did not use any low cut. I'm not trying to attack them or their product. Like I said, it's probably great. I too am involved in product testing for some large companies, and it is important to be as clear as possible.

Chad Johnson April 4th, 2011 07:05 PM

Re: "Serious" Wind Protection For SONY D-50 Too!
 
OK I got my own wind jacked for my Sony D-50 recorder. This recorder is REALLY susceptible to the wind. I sent TheWindCutter.com people my D-50 so they could develop a jacket for it, and they did a great job. Now they are available for D-50s. I can hear a bit of low rumble, but it's hardly there compared to the alternative. What I did get can easily be removed. I'm also listening on speakers with tremendous bass response, so I'm hearing everything.


Brian McKenna April 5th, 2011 01:24 AM

Re: "Serious" Wind Protection For ZoomH1
 
only put off might be that the marketing sux


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