Buying MKH 416

Garrett Low · February 16th, 2011, 12:47 PM

Unfortunately shotguns don't generally work well inside if the room is very live. The 416's low end characteristics make it a bit more sensitive to reflected low. It's not horrible but compared some other mics it is noticeable. The 416's are pretty much built to take anything though so they are standard equipment for a lot of people.

-Garrett

Paul R Johnson · February 16th, 2011, 01:13 PM

I like to think that 416s are a little like Bose PA loudspeakers. Everyone loves them, or hates them. Nobody floats in between.

The only real answer on this is to try one out, actually, try a few different ones and see which one you like the sound of.

See if you can borrow or even just hire a couple for a day - maybe a 416 and the Rode. Wire them up to your kit with the cables randomly plugged into left and right - record the kind of thing you will be using them for, and then let your ears decide. Then follow the cable and buy one of those!

I really hate the notion of choosing a microphone just because people tell you X is better than Y. You have your own ears, and maybe your opinion is better.

One point on old mics. I have a mic here that I bought in my teens in the 70s. I bought the same model last month. They sound different. Not bad, different - just not the same. The older one is not quite so bright. On it's own it is ok - but you wouldn't want to use them as a matched pair.

The same applies to the sound from an old 416. It's still a 416, but is it as good as a new something else?

I have no problems with people recommending their favourites, but microphones are tools, and the 416 is not the be all and end all of shotgun mics - but it IS a known, tested and reliable constant. Given a choice between a 416 all naked, and maybe a cheaper one with useful accessories, I'd do the cheap one every time and have a full kit!

Lee Kirshner · February 16th, 2011, 02:21 PM

The other forum is gearslutz. I'm just a filmmaker trying to get decent sound for my project. Right now I'm shooting on the videomic, and I'd like an upgrade. I've read a lot of forums where people first buy the k6 and then switch to the 416. I thought I might skip that step.

Question about used MKH 416 - Gearslutz.com

It seems like the wind cover is very important though, so I'm at a crossroad. Ideally I'd like to pay about $550 and have all my bases covered, but that just doesn't seem possible.

SENNHEISER MKH416 SHOTGUN CONDENSER MICROPHONE+XLR CABL on eBay.ca (item 220734241510 end time 05-Mar-11 08:53:39 EST)

This is the mic I was looking at. I'm in Canada.

Garrett Low · February 16th, 2011, 02:45 PM

Lee, unfortunately $550 to get a complete kit is going to be a bit tight. About the cheapest good wind protection I would recommend is the Rode Blimp at about $300. Rycote's kit is a little better but costs about twice as much. Then you'll also need to get a boompole if you don't already have one and proper cables.

As was previously mentioned, you're better off getting a less expensive mic and the proper accessories. Also, keep in mind that getting good sound is about proper mic technique. You'd be surprised that you can get very good results even with your Videomic.

-Garrett

Lee Kirshner · February 16th, 2011, 02:53 PM

$300!!! For a piece of plastic. That's almost as expensive as the mic.

I was planning on DIYing a boom pole and zeppelin. I'm pretty handy, and I don't mind not looking professional so long as the sound quality is there.

But, now I'm thinking the 416 might be too sensitive for anything diy...

Jay Massengill · February 17th, 2011, 09:16 AM

Trew Audio has an extensive selection of used gear as well as an operation in Canada. It's another source you could check for dependable items.

Jim Andrada · February 17th, 2011, 12:01 PM

Quote: $300!!! For a piece of plastic. That's almost as expensive as the mic.

Well, compared to the price of diamonds (just rocks after all) sounds pretty reasonable. (Joke!!!)

Plastic is cheap (ish) but making molds for plastic is extremely expensive - I've seen molds for smallish parts run over half a million dollars each. Size and precision (and type of plastic) drives the price up because larger molds require larger molding machines, and getting plastic to flow evenly through a mold with lots of features, holes, etc can require heated molds and sometimes even vacuum assist. I've seen some complex molds where we had to have the plastic injected from several points, and then we ran into issues where the multiple flows met at lower than optimal temperatures and we had parts eventually breaking apart from molding stresses and insufficient mixing. It's a black art!!! Cheaply molded parts can warp or crack over time.

I remember a rather famous PC maker once having to recall 5 million keyboards because of warpage caused by poor molding and/or incorrect plastic resin.

So it comes down to the size of the market - plastic parts that sell in the millions are cheap, the same kind of part that sells a few thousand can be very very expensive.

Of course, "brand value" can be a big part of it as well. Anyone for a Tiffany blimp???

February 16th, 2011, 12:47 PM	#16
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Unfortunately shotguns don't generally work well inside if the room is very live. The 416's low end characteristics make it a bit more sensitive to reflected low. It's not horrible but compared some other mics it is noticeable. The 416's are pretty much built to take anything though so they are standard equipment for a lot of people. -Garrett __________________ Garrett Low www.GLowMediaProductions.com

February 16th, 2011, 02:45 PM	#19
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Lee, unfortunately $550 to get a complete kit is going to be a bit tight. About the cheapest good wind protection I would recommend is the Rode Blimp at about $300. Rycote's kit is a little better but costs about twice as much. Then you'll also need to get a boompole if you don't already have one and proper cables. As was previously mentioned, you're better off getting a less expensive mic and the proper accessories. Also, keep in mind that getting good sound is about proper mic technique. You'd be surprised that you can get very good results even with your Videomic. -Garrett __________________ Garrett Low www.GLowMediaProductions.com

February 16th, 2011, 01:13 PM	#17
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	I like to think that 416s are a little like Bose PA loudspeakers. Everyone loves them, or hates them. Nobody floats in between. The only real answer on this is to try one out, actually, try a few different ones and see which one you like the sound of. See if you can borrow or even just hire a couple for a day - maybe a 416 and the Rode. Wire them up to your kit with the cables randomly plugged into left and right - record the kind of thing you will be using them for, and then let your ears decide. Then follow the cable and buy one of those! I really hate the notion of choosing a microphone just because people tell you X is better than Y. You have your own ears, and maybe your opinion is better. One point on old mics. I have a mic here that I bought in my teens in the 70s. I bought the same model last month. They sound different. Not bad, different - just not the same. The older one is not quite so bright. On it's own it is ok - but you wouldn't want to use them as a matched pair. The same applies to the sound from an old 416. It's still a 416, but is it as good as a new something else? I have no problems with people recommending their favourites, but microphones are tools, and the 416 is not the be all and end all of shotgun mics - but it IS a known, tested and reliable constant. Given a choice between a 416 all naked, and maybe a cheaper one with useful accessories, I'd do the cheap one every time and have a full kit!

February 16th, 2011, 02:21 PM	#18
Lee Kirshner New Boot Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Ottawa Posts: 7	The other forum is gearslutz. I'm just a filmmaker trying to get decent sound for my project. Right now I'm shooting on the videomic, and I'd like an upgrade. I've read a lot of forums where people first buy the k6 and then switch to the 416. I thought I might skip that step. Question about used MKH 416 - Gearslutz.com It seems like the wind cover is very important though, so I'm at a crossroad. Ideally I'd like to pay about $550 and have all my bases covered, but that just doesn't seem possible. SENNHEISER MKH416 SHOTGUN CONDENSER MICROPHONE+XLR CABL on eBay.ca (item 220734241510 end time 05-Mar-11 08:53:39 EST) This is the mic I was looking at. I'm in Canada.

February 16th, 2011, 02:53 PM	#20
Lee Kirshner New Boot Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Ottawa Posts: 7	$300!!! For a piece of plastic. That's almost as expensive as the mic. I was planning on DIYing a boom pole and zeppelin. I'm pretty handy, and I don't mind not looking professional so long as the sound quality is there. But, now I'm thinking the 416 might be too sensitive for anything diy...

February 17th, 2011, 09:16 AM	#21
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	Trew Audio has an extensive selection of used gear as well as an operation in Canada. It's another source you could check for dependable items.

February 17th, 2011, 12:01 PM	#22
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Quote: $300!!! For a piece of plastic. That's almost as expensive as the mic. Well, compared to the price of diamonds (just rocks after all) sounds pretty reasonable. (Joke!!!) Plastic is cheap (ish) but making molds for plastic is extremely expensive - I've seen molds for smallish parts run over half a million dollars each. Size and precision (and type of plastic) drives the price up because larger molds require larger molding machines, and getting plastic to flow evenly through a mold with lots of features, holes, etc can require heated molds and sometimes even vacuum assist. I've seen some complex molds where we had to have the plastic injected from several points, and then we ran into issues where the multiple flows met at lower than optimal temperatures and we had parts eventually breaking apart from molding stresses and insufficient mixing. It's a black art!!! Cheaply molded parts can warp or crack over time. I remember a rather famous PC maker once having to recall 5 million keyboards because of warpage caused by poor molding and/or incorrect plastic resin. So it comes down to the size of the market - plastic parts that sell in the millions are cheap, the same kind of part that sells a few thousand can be very very expensive. Of course, "brand value" can be a big part of it as well. Anyone for a Tiffany blimp???