Off the board, or off the speakers?

Andy Turrett · April 14th, 2011, 07:52 PM

>>By using an aux out you can setup a proper recording mix to come out of the aux while the board op does his thing with a house PA mix on the mains, and the two won't interfere with each other.<<

Mostly true except the trim on each channel strip will effect both the house mix and the aux mix.

Andy

Jonathan Plotkin · April 14th, 2011, 08:05 PM

Thanks again Steve and those of you who have taken the time to clarify this stuff. Really, really useful!

Steve House · April 15th, 2011, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Turrett

>>By using an aux out you can setup a proper recording mix to come out of the aux while the board op does his thing with a house PA mix on the mains, and the two won't interfere with each other.<<

Mostly true except the trim on each channel strip will effect both the house mix and the aux mix.

Andy

True. The aux taps are post-trim, post-hpf. Some are tapped off pre-EQ and pre-fader while some can be set to come off the channel either pre- or post- EQ and fader. But trim is not properly used to adjust the level of the channel in the mix, rather it is to set the level of the input to the channel strip

Andy Turrett · April 15th, 2011, 04:16 AM

>>But trim is not properly used to adjust the level of the channel in the mix, rather it is to set the level of the input to the channel strip <<

True the trims are not used to mix a performance but they will more than likely be adjusted during the performance which will alter the aux mix. This is important to understand and emphasises another reason to monitor the Aux mix if you want a good final mix.

Andy

Paul R Johnson · April 15th, 2011, 04:20 AM

Using an aux mix, or maybe even an unused matrix output on the groups, if it's a bigger clever board is fine - but when do you get to try this out? Sound checks are usually tight for time, and the band may not have extra time for setting your mix. On top of this, some bands basically do line check and eq, and don't set a mix at all - the engineer doing this during the first song. Quite common when time is tight, or that the venue has other things going on and don't want a full scale song performed.

The other thing is that you are asking for services from their sound op, and there's no guarantee they'll accommodate your request. Giving you a simple mirror of the output is one thing - giving you a balanced mix is another. If you want this kind of thing, you need to sort it in advance, not on the day - or you might get the response that they don't have any spare auxes, or they're going to be making radical gain changes which might ruin your output. Just an excuse to get you out of their hair!

Andy Turrett · April 15th, 2011, 05:01 AM

This is for a wedding video and no one should expect a good recording off of the house mix. Even if you had someone else mixing the Auxes you wouldn't have good enough isolation to hear the mix properly in your headsets.

It is also not reasonable or usually asked that one sound engineer do a house mix and an aux mix at the same time. You will end up compromising both mixes. Additionally it is very unlikely that every thing will be miced unless the wedding is in a huge venue. So doing a seperate mix is out of the question. As I mentioned earlier the thing to do is stick up a mic or a pair of stereo mics in a sweet spot in the room and call it a day.

Andy

Stan Harkleroad · April 15th, 2011, 03:57 PM

If I'm recording music I always run a pair of stereo mics and/or my Sony D50 recorder's mics in a good spot to get a full room mix and also grab the record out of the board into a separate recorder. I sync in Vegas and mix to taste and use the Antress Modern Limiter plug in to tame any peaks.

Chad Johnson · April 15th, 2011, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan Harkleroad

If I'm recording music I always run a pair of stereo mics and/or my Sony D50 recorder's mics in a good spot to get a full room mix and also grab the record out of the board into a separate recorder. I sync in Vegas and mix to taste and use the Antress Modern Limiter plug in to tame any peaks.

That's a "Matrix" recording, and usually the best you can do for most things, given that the sound person needs to concentrate on their job not ours.

April 14th, 2011, 07:52 PM	#31
Andy Turrett Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northampton,MA Posts: 38	Re: Off the board, or off the speakers? >>By using an aux out you can setup a proper recording mix to come out of the aux while the board op does his thing with a house PA mix on the mains, and the two won't interfere with each other.<< Mostly true except the trim on each channel strip will effect both the house mix and the aux mix. Andy

April 14th, 2011, 08:05 PM	#32
Jonathan Plotkin Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 122	Re: Off the board, or off the speakers? Thanks again Steve and those of you who have taken the time to clarify this stuff. Really, really useful!

April 15th, 2011, 04:16 AM	#34
Andy Turrett Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northampton,MA Posts: 38	Re: Off the board, or off the speakers? >>But trim is not properly used to adjust the level of the channel in the mix, rather it is to set the level of the input to the channel strip << True the trims are not used to mix a performance but they will more than likely be adjusted during the performance which will alter the aux mix. This is important to understand and emphasises another reason to monitor the Aux mix if you want a good final mix. Andy

April 15th, 2011, 04:20 AM	#35
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: Off the board, or off the speakers? Using an aux mix, or maybe even an unused matrix output on the groups, if it's a bigger clever board is fine - but when do you get to try this out? Sound checks are usually tight for time, and the band may not have extra time for setting your mix. On top of this, some bands basically do line check and eq, and don't set a mix at all - the engineer doing this during the first song. Quite common when time is tight, or that the venue has other things going on and don't want a full scale song performed. The other thing is that you are asking for services from their sound op, and there's no guarantee they'll accommodate your request. Giving you a simple mirror of the output is one thing - giving you a balanced mix is another. If you want this kind of thing, you need to sort it in advance, not on the day - or you might get the response that they don't have any spare auxes, or they're going to be making radical gain changes which might ruin your output. Just an excuse to get you out of their hair!

April 15th, 2011, 05:01 AM	#36
Andy Turrett Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northampton,MA Posts: 38	Re: Off the board, or off the speakers? This is for a wedding video and no one should expect a good recording off of the house mix. Even if you had someone else mixing the Auxes you wouldn't have good enough isolation to hear the mix properly in your headsets. It is also not reasonable or usually asked that one sound engineer do a house mix and an aux mix at the same time. You will end up compromising both mixes. Additionally it is very unlikely that every thing will be miced unless the wedding is in a huge venue. So doing a seperate mix is out of the question. As I mentioned earlier the thing to do is stick up a mic or a pair of stereo mics in a sweet spot in the room and call it a day. Andy

April 15th, 2011, 03:57 PM	#37
Stan Harkleroad Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Gautier, MS Posts: 175	Re: Off the board, or off the speakers? If I'm recording music I always run a pair of stereo mics and/or my Sony D50 recorder's mics in a good spot to get a full room mix and also grab the record out of the board into a separate recorder. I sync in Vegas and mix to taste and use the Antress Modern Limiter plug in to tame any peaks.