Sanken COS-11D on the Sennheiser G2/G3 systems

[Tom Morrow]

Reopening this thread because I'm getting tired of the Rode micon cables going bad when pressure on that tiny Micon connector physically breaks the connection inside talent's pocket. I've now gone through three micon cables and just decided the Rode system isn't reliable enough for me so I'm going to get some Sanken cos11d's for my g3's.

I see that a lot of people like the
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/387918-REG/Sennheiser_MZA900P_MZA_900_P.htmlwhich converts an g3-wired mic to plug into an XLR input, for about half the price of the Sanken XLR adapter, and saves the clumsiness and reliability issues with adding breakaway TA3 connectors. Just curious if anyone who likes the TA3 solution has tried the MZA900P and rejected it.

I'm deciding whether to keep my Rode Lavs for XLR use or go fully Sanken with the MZA900P.

And since we're here, I'm curious if anyone has preferences for a particular kind of g3 locking 1/8" connectors to have soldered onto the cos11d's. My options are: The Sun Valley ebay seller who seems to have the lowest price, dvestore, Trew, or B&H, all of which will source their own locking 1/8" connectors; I have seen drastic differences in quality of different locking 1/8" connectors and none of them give good pictures on their website of the connectors they use, IIRC.

[Guy Cochran]

Originally Posted by Tom Morrow

Reopening this thread because I'm getting tired of the Rode micon cables going bad when pressure on that tiny Micon connector physically breaks the connection inside talent's pocket. I've now gone through three micon cables and just decided the Rode system isn't reliable enough for me so I'm going to get some Sanken cos11d's for my g3's.

I see that a lot of people like the
Sennheiser MZA 900 P - In-Line Preamplifier MZA900P B&H Photo
which converts an g3-wired mic to plug into an XLR input, for about half the price of the Sanken XLR adapter, and saves the clumsiness and reliability issues with adding breakaway TA3 connectors. Just curious if anyone who likes the TA3 solution has tried the MZA900P and rejected it.

I'm deciding whether to keep my Rode Lavs for XLR use or go fully Sanken with the MZA900P.

And since we're here, I'm curious if anyone has preferences for a particular kind of g3 locking 1/8" connectors to have soldered onto the cos11d's. My options are: The Sun Valley ebay seller who seems to have the lowest price, dvestore, Trew, or B&H, all of which will source their own locking 1/8" connectors; I have seen drastic differences in quality of different locking 1/8" connectors and none of them give good pictures on their website of the connectors they use, IIRC.

Tough gigs if you're snapping connectors! I know that you also had the transmitter pouches too, did those not work out? On the inexpensive side, I would get some heat shrink tubing and put it on the Micon connection. That would put less strain on the connector and save some cash. I'll also let the folks at RODE know about the issue and see if they can toughen up the design and drop 3 replacements in the mail.

As I said earlier in the thread, we buy packs of 10 COS11-D lavs in pigtail, then wire them for Lectro, Sennheiser, Shure etc. The 3.5mm locking connector we use is plastic and has been holding up well. We have sold well over 100 units and have not had any fail. The Sennheiser MZA-900P XLR adapter works perfectly, just try to use the clip to relieve some of the strain on the connection. We do have a bundle of the two that we offer Sanken COS11-D lavalier with Sennheiser XLR adapter Audio Here are a couple of quick pictures of the 3.5mm locking connector and the Sanken COS11-D.

[Tom Morrow]

Thanks Guy. Much appreciated. I suppose I might as well ask some questions here so that everyone can benefit...

How long are the cables on the cos11d that you sell... Others on jwsoundgroup seem to like 6 foot 6 inches, and I'm actually thinking I might prefer a little longer like 7 feet in case I end up upgrading to lectrosonics and want to change the connectors.

And are those Sennheiser locking 1/8" connectors you use metal or plastic barrel? It looks like none of the solderable variations have rubber strain relief like the ME2 so I'm encouraged to see that it looks like you add shrink wrap to stiffen the end of the cable where it enters the connector.

Most of the damage that I suffered happened when I loaned the Rode Lavs out. I can understand why few places rent Rode gear even though it's a great value for people who baby their gear.

I've started putting a piece of gorilla tape and/or gaffer tape around the micon connections to relieve the strain a bit. I like the idea of heat shrink tubing instead, would look more elegant. Good idea. I'll try that if I keep the Rode lavs.

[Rick Reineke]

I use the 'TecNec Locking 3.5mm Stereo audio plug' when wiring for the G2/3. A decent connector, relatively easy to work with/solder. About $3.50 ea.
TecNec Locking 3.5mm Stereo Audio Plug Black 3.5, 2.5mm Mini Connectors at Markertek.com .

[Guy Cochran]

Originally Posted by Tom Morrow

Thanks Guy. Much appreciated. I suppose I might as well ask some questions here so that everyone can benefit...

How long are the cables on the cos11d that you sell... Others on jwsoundgroup seem to like 6 foot 6 inches, and I'm actually thinking I might prefer a little longer like 7 feet in case I end up upgrading to lectrosonics and want to change the connectors.

And are those Sennheiser locking 1/8" connectors you use metal or plastic barrel? It looks like none of the solderable variations have rubber strain relief like the ME2 so I'm encouraged to see that it looks like you add shrink wrap to stiffen the end of the cable where it enters the connector.

Most of the damage that I suffered happened when I loaned the Rode Lavs out. I can understand why few places rent Rode gear even though it's a great value for people who baby their gear.

I've started putting a piece of gorilla tape and/or gaffer tape around the micon connections to relieve the strain a bit. I like the idea of heat shrink tubing instead, would look more elegant. Good idea. I'll try that if I keep the Rode lavs.

The Sanken COS-11D is available in 1.8 or 3.0 meter lengths. We carry the longer version, which is about 6.5'. Sennheiser uses metal locking collars. We use a 3.5mm plastic locking collar with a black chrome metal threading body (similar to the Tecnec unit in the post above). We also heat shrink the strain relief for added protection.

[Tom Morrow]

Guy you are the best, thanks for sending those replacements!

Guy I'm confused about which of your lengths (1.8M or 3.0M) would be 6.5 feet long... 3.0 Meters works out to about 10 feet. Please clarify.

Rick, that tecnec connector looks pretty bomber. But I'm still resistant to the idea of soldering since there seem to be different ways to wire these things described on the net and I'd rather not take the time to try and figure out which way is best (or which are wrong). Given that Sanken doesn't seem to officially supply Sennheiser connections, and Sennheiser doesn't officially support Sanken there doesn't seem to be any factory authority who can say what the best way to connect them is.

[Guy Cochran]

Originally Posted by Tom Morrow

Guy you are the best, thanks for sending those replacements!

Guy I'm confused about which of your lengths (1.8M or 3.0M) would be 6.5 feet long... 3.0 Meters works out to about 10 feet. Please clarify.

Glad to hear that the replacements arrived safely. We can build the Sanken COS-11D to either length 1.8M or 3.0M, but what we keep in stock is 6.5' as that is what seems to be a good working length. That is one nice thing about the RODE micon extension cables is that you can extend the RODE lav and Pin Mic rather easily. It also makes it easy to replace a Micon extension cable for $32. Unless you're handy with soldering, it gets expensive fixing those connectors 3.5mm locking and TA5 - especially on small cable like the Countryman B6. Sometimes you gotta joke with your talent about how much you're putting on them so they catch a clue to be extra careful with the gear.

[Tom Morrow]

Thanks Guy. I just placed an order with you for that MZA kit.

I just shrink wrapped my rode video mic cables (over some gorilla tape for good measure), and discovered that it's probably best to only do that on one end (the transmitter end). Adding the shrink wrap to the mic end makes that end too unwieldly and likely to cause rustle when hidden on an actor. So I'll probably carefully cut it off on that end and just leave on the transmitter end. Good idea.

[Tom Morrow]

A few updates:

I had a chance to try out the dvestore cos11d's and I really like the connector and the way they terminated it. The Sennheiser connector is much more solid feeling and securely locking than the rode micon locking 1/8". The barrel feels like metal even though it looks like plastic. It's possible I'm just getting better at hiding lavs on actors, but I got very good results with the cos11d's on my first day: less scratching noise from clothing, and overall good tone, compared with the Rode lavalier. I suspect the cos11d has slightly lower handling noise.

I did some more troubleshooting on the Rode lavaliers and determined that in addition to the cables going bad, one of my two locking 1/8" micon connectors had gone bad; it now always caused whistling so I will replace that.

I determined that in order to get a reliable connection it's necessary to use the little wrench that rode includes with the lavaliers to compress the tiny rubber o-ring a bit; otherwise sideways pressure on the connector causes cut-outs.

After all that, and thanks to dvestore, I'm back to having reliable Rode lavaliers again (at least for now) so I'm going to keep them for ENG and XLR use, as well as because they can take a non-locking plug in power 1/8" micon connector to plug directly into pocket sized consumer recorders for situations where wireless isn't practical.

[Thad Donovan]

Hi all. Just piggy backing on this thread. I am not an audio pro, so I'll just get that out right away.

I ordered a Sennheiser G3 TX/RX system, which comes with their ME2 lav mics. Setting them it up was not too difficult and I got good, clean sound right away.

I am recording into a Sound Devices 702, so it's really nice sound being recorded (at least for my standards).

I also ordered Sanken COS11D microphones (with mini 1/8" connectors) because from what I've read these are superior mics. I could not afford the Lectrosonics RX/TX systems, so this was my compromise. Great mics on a good TX/RX.

However, I cannot for the life of me get the COS11D to sound good. It is loaded with noise, I can't seem to get the level high enough for the 702. There's also a constant digital pulsing sound. I have two COS11D/G3 setups and both exhibit the same problem, so it's not an issue with having a single bad mic or G3.

I've tried the following:
Swapped all my cables.
Changed frequency bands/channels to no effect.
Ran the COS11Ds into a 2-channel Sound Devices MixPre.
I've tried mic levels, line levels, phantom power, etc. Nothing helps.
I moved equipment around, inside and out of the house.

My internet research tells me to set my TX level first. I can't even get that to work. When I adjust the G3 TX sensitivity, I can't find a setting that shows a nice mid level on the meter. It's either maxed out, shows nothing, or shows levels half way all the time even when it's quiet (I interpret this to be some kind of noise or interference?).

It seems I'm either completely misunderstanding how these mics should work or maybe these COS11Ds aren't really suitable for the G3. From what Iv'e read though, many people are in fact using COS111Ds with the G3s so I'm perplexed. Do I need another piece of hardware? Right now I'm plugging the COS11D straight into the G3 TX. It's the 1/8" connector version, so no adapters are introduced. Then it's a 1/8" to XLR from the G3 RX into the 702, again no adapters.

I can get by with the ME2 mics, but it sure would be nice to leverage the superior COS11Ds.

Help!!!

[Gary Nattrass]

Hi are you sure you have the correct version as I see they do two different 3.5mm connector mics for Sony and for Sennheiser and the plug in power connections may be different.

They are lovely mic's but I don't think you would need to spend so much to get an improvement over the ME2. The MKE 2 gold tends to be the best update for G2/3.

[Thad Donovan]

Gary, Thanks for the perfect response. I did not realize that there were specific models for Sony and Sennheiser of the COS11d. I assumed that as long as it had the 1/8" connector I'd be good. THis is what happens when someone who isn't an audio pro pretends to be one. :)

Also, thanks for the heads up on the MKE2. I went ahead and ordered both and I'll keep my favorite and send back the other. That's the nice thing about B&H. No hassle returns.

Thanks!

[Rick Reineke]

The wiring scheme in the Sennheiser and Sony are different and not compatible no matter what mic is used despite using the same 3.5mm locking plug.
I typically set the transmitter's sensitivity between -10 and -20dB depending on the SPL of the sound source/wearer (using Tram, Countryman, OST, ect). The EK100 portable receiver's AF (output level) is usually from -6 to -18dB for a mic level inputs and maxed out (+12) for line level (though it's still a little anemic for a +4dB input).

[David Peterson]

Originally Posted by Rick Reineke

The wiring scheme in the Sennheiser and Sony are different and not compatible no matter what mic is used despite using the same 3.5mm locking plug.

Would a Sony work at all in any form on a Sennheiser or visa versa?

As I've got an odd situation where my crap lav (I need to find a replacement! But don't know what would work??) from my Samson Airline Micro works on a G3 but the ME2 lav from the G3 doesn't work on the Samson TX!

[Chad Johnson]

If you get the Rode Lavaliere you have the option to purchase whatever "Micon" adapter you nedd for whatever brand wireless.