Need wireless system

Anthony Lelli · February 12th, 2015, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary A. Smith

Excellent!! Thanks Anthony. Ill be looking into those units. Most of my recordings will be at small country towns probably no bigger than 20000 people so shouldnt be too much interference. I have a google earth map with major transmitter sites and frequencies listed for australia so i could check that before going on location. I have an enthusiast background in radio comms, have my ham radio ticket so luckily i know a bit about interference, harmonics, repeater inputs etc. Thanks again, sounds like a good start.

my pleasure, Gary
that's the best solution for your budget in my opinion. Now a note about the handheld:
they are "cheap" , the handheld is nothing more than a 20 bucks (US) karaoke microphone (which means LOTS of handling noise, exaggerated mids and so on). So if you have a low cut filter on the XLR of the camera then DEFINITELY use it.

those are NOT diversity by any means , but in my experience (a week or so in venues around NYC) they perform without problems so far.

Anyway since they are sold by B&H you can try and if they don't work then send them back.

I'm pretty happy with mine, to be honest. But a "real" microphone on a plug on and a true diversity system like the new sony uwpd or the good old sennheiser g2 (non diversity) and G3 (somehow diversity) gives sounds from another planet (to be honest). But you stated a budget and that's the answer.

good luck

Don Palomaki · February 12th, 2015, 02:14 PM

Having grown up in the Southern Tier (about 20 miles from Ithaca),,and worked at places like Minot. ND, towns of 20K can be pretty rural as well, with minimal RF sources around, except for 5 KW daytime AM stations and small FM station, and the occasional VHF or UHF TV station 20 or so miles away.

NYC and greater LA, DC, Chicago, etc, are NOT representative of most of the USA land mass

Ty Ford · February 14th, 2015, 12:17 PM

here's a clip from a shoot this week:

Regards,

Ty Ford

Anthony Lelli · February 14th, 2015, 09:23 PM

update on the polsen handheld that I have. (uwl-16 hht)
I was shooting a party today and the DJ saw my microphone on the table and immediately said "that's a Vocopro... I didn't know that they made stuff for cameras".
So they are indeed VERY similar to the karaoke stuff and low-budget DJs
but what can I say..? they work well...
vocopro is a cool company in California, good for them! welcome to the video world!

as long as they work I don't care if this is a karaoke thing LOL
the 2.4GHz are for karaoke too , but at least the Polsen is UHF and can go past 5ft....

anyway Vocopro makes a system in the 2.4GHz for karaoke and smartphones too now , the receiver is small(ish) but not good for a camera, but it works on batteries. But they state the destination clearly, so it's not for cameras.

Anthony Lelli · February 17th, 2015, 06:22 PM

everything works in your living room with one wireless within 1-2ft, but reality is a totally different animal. in reality you can have 40 wireless systems at the same time right next to you, you may have to put the lav a little more than 1-2ft away from the receiver (try 40-50ft) and steady, again with other wireless working right there next to yours. for the shoot that you (kindly) posted even a corded lav would do fine, and even a cheap VHF would do fine. Anyway they also should make the zoom illegal in studio shoots.

Steven Davis · April 11th, 2015, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Crowley

It has been the conventional wisdom for many years that the lowest-price "decent" wireless kit would cost US$500-650, typically the Sennheiser G3. However, that MAY be changing now that they are starting to use low-cost 2.4 GHz "wi-fi" technology for wireless mics.

Audio-Technica introduced their "System 10" last year, and just very recently added an on-camera, battery-operated receiver. I just got two systems and I am planning on making a "teardown" video to reveal the internal technology, as well as some REAL performance tests. Initial tests in my WiFi intensive office showed that it appears to work fine in the presence of lots of WiFi "competitors".

And the other potential issue, latency, subjectively appears to be a non-issue. I could not perceive ANY latency even though I was looking for it.

And Australian microphone manufacturer Rode will be introducing their RodeLink 2.4GHz wireless products here in the next few months. The RodeLink appears to use nearly the same technology as the AT System 10, although they do not appear to be inter-operable. Also TBD is whether they will co-exist together in the same venue, but I would be that they will behave themselves.

The street price for the AT System 10 is US$450 and the RodeLink is supposed to be US$400.

From what I have seen so far, this is a major breakthrough for affordable wireless audio gadgets. The spread-spectrum, frequency-hopping, 2.4 GHz technology is already ubiquitous in WiFi and BlueTooth protocols, so the supporting chipsets, etc.have become "jelly-bean" commodity components, and the prices of this new design reflects that economy.

Another benefit (although also potentially a curse) of using the 2.4 GHz ISM band is that it is already allocated for short-range, unlecensed communication anywhere on the planet. So producers who move around to different countries won't have to worry about whether their wireless kits are legal. And the manufacturers can make a single model for sale in all geographies, further decreasing the cost.

Hey Richard, I'm looking at the AT System 10, I need to replace one of my Sennheiser systems. What has been your impression so far with the AT System?

Steven Davis · April 11th, 2015, 04:53 PM

I just noticed that the range on the digital sets I've found is 20% less than UHF. Hmmm.. Wonder if the technology will expand the range. The AT set is 100' according to the specs, I shoot a lot more than 100' so that's a bummer. I may go back to the UHF set, maybe try the Sony set.

Chris Harding · April 11th, 2015, 07:43 PM

Hi Steve

I was looking at the AT system too and bandwidth is becoming an issue here but I wouldn't even think about a 2.4GHz system beyond 60' at best .. I think you will get dropouts at 100' and that's a sorta max possible range with a clear line of sight. I doubt whether you would get even 60' if you have people or objects in the way. Wow what do you shoot where your mic needs to be so far away?? I have been told the new Sony UHF gear is pretty good but you need to find someone to test their's for you at extreme ranges to make sure it will be clean over a long distance before you buy it!!

Chris

Richard Crowley · April 11th, 2015, 10:53 PM

I promise to shoot a proper test and "teardown" of my AT System 10 when I get back from NAB next week (And after I have had a chance to talk to the Audio Technica people!)
.
Meanwhile, this test by Fred Ginsberg is not perfect (what is?) but it is probably the best one I have seen on YouTube so far:

Rick Reineke · April 12th, 2015, 08:17 AM

"Meanwhile, this test by Fred Ginsberg is not perfect (what is?) but it is probably the best one I have seen on YouTube so far"
In addition, Fred works for AT at trade shows and such, so his 'tests' could be skewed to put the product in the best light.
I'd like to give on a 'real-world' test myself, here.in RF hell.

Richard Crowley · April 12th, 2015, 08:47 AM

Please identify something in the video where you think Mr. Ginsberg was putting the gadget "in the best light".

My main criticism of the test was that it didn't cover the "worst-case" where you are using it in a WiFi-saturated place. For example a campus coffee shop where everybody is using WiFi. I intend to perform a test in exactly that kind of environment to see how it operates with that kind of competition.

Steven Davis · April 12th, 2015, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Hi Steve

I was looking at the AT system too and bandwidth is becoming an issue here but I wouldn't even think about a 2.4GHz system beyond 60' at best .. I think you will get dropouts at 100' and that's a sorta max possible range with a clear line of sight. I doubt whether you would get even 60' if you have people or objects in the way. Wow what do you shoot where your mic needs to be so far away?? I have been told the new Sony UHF gear is pretty good but you need to find someone to test their's for you at extreme ranges to make sure it will be clean over a long distance before you buy it!!

Chris

Hey Chris,

Around my area, there are some pretty big churches. One was over 140' from the balcony to the front. As for borrowing, Richmond is pretty bad about having that. I typically have to research things to death and then purchase.

I was pretty excited to see the digital sets, although I'm glad I read about the range first. Hopefully the technology will grow since the government is insistent on taking all our ranges to spy on my choice of toilet paper lol. I have a set of Sennheisers, but they're not in the optimal range, so I'll be selling one or two of them. I might go back to the Sennheisers since I know their operational quirks.

Rick Reineke · April 12th, 2015, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Crowley

Please identify something in the video where you think Mr. Ginsberg was putting the gadget "in the best light"

He could have omitted tests where it didn't perform well. I don't know for sure, I'm just skeptical by nature, as I am of any low cost system.

Chris Harding · April 12th, 2015, 06:59 PM

Fair enough comment Steve

Most of our ceremonies here are civil outdoor ones rather than Churches (in fact I only did my first 2015 Church wedding this weekend and I have been super busy this year) My issues are mainly clashing with the Church/Officiant's wireless system or DJ/venue wireless systems ... I guess it depends on your environment as to what will work best.

Since he does do reviews for AT Fred could have omitted any poor points about the system 10 but I would doubt that it would be published if the system was a complete and total failure ... It will be interesting to see other tests but again it also depends on what you do and where you do it!

Chris

Steven Davis · April 14th, 2015, 10:00 AM

A funny thing happened on the way to the office........ side joke.

I did call Sony because of all the literature and reviews I found on line, nobody could spec out the working range of the Sony UWP-D11. After spending 365 days on hold, the pro product support guy from Sony told me that he didn't have any information on the working range of the units. After I got off the floor, I said thank you and hung up. I then was like, do what? lol. Oh well, I did like the monitor output of theSony UWP-D11, but might end up with the Sennheiser again, or an AT system.

February 12th, 2015, 02:14 PM	#17
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	Re: Need wireless system Having grown up in the Southern Tier (about 20 miles from Ithaca),,and worked at places like Minot. ND, towns of 20K can be pretty rural as well, with minimal RF sources around, except for 5 KW daytime AM stations and small FM station, and the occasional VHF or UHF TV station 20 or so miles away. NYC and greater LA, DC, Chicago, etc, are NOT representative of most of the USA land mass __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

February 14th, 2015, 12:17 PM	#18
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Re: Need wireless system here's a clip from a shoot this week: Audio-Technica System 10 Wireless - YouTube Regards, Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

February 14th, 2015, 09:23 PM	#19
Anthony Lelli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: New York City Posts: 329	Re: Need wireless system update on the polsen handheld that I have. (uwl-16 hht) I was shooting a party today and the DJ saw my microphone on the table and immediately said "that's a Vocopro... I didn't know that they made stuff for cameras". So they are indeed VERY similar to the karaoke stuff and low-budget DJs but what can I say..? they work well... vocopro is a cool company in California, good for them! welcome to the video world! as long as they work I don't care if this is a karaoke thing LOL the 2.4GHz are for karaoke too , but at least the Polsen is UHF and can go past 5ft.... anyway Vocopro makes a system in the 2.4GHz for karaoke and smartphones too now , the receiver is small(ish) but not good for a camera, but it works on batteries. But they state the destination clearly, so it's not for cameras.

February 17th, 2015, 06:22 PM	#20
Anthony Lelli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: New York City Posts: 329	Re: Need wireless system everything works in your living room with one wireless within 1-2ft, but reality is a totally different animal. in reality you can have 40 wireless systems at the same time right next to you, you may have to put the lav a little more than 1-2ft away from the receiver (try 40-50ft) and steady, again with other wireless working right there next to yours. for the shoot that you (kindly) posted even a corded lav would do fine, and even a cheap VHF would do fine. Anyway they also should make the zoom illegal in studio shoots.

April 11th, 2015, 04:53 PM	#22
Steven Davis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,065	Re: Need wireless system I just noticed that the range on the digital sets I've found is 20% less than UHF. Hmmm.. Wonder if the technology will expand the range. The AT set is 100' according to the specs, I shoot a lot more than 100' so that's a bummer. I may go back to the UHF set, maybe try the Sony set. __________________ What happens if I push the 'Red' button?

April 11th, 2015, 07:43 PM	#23
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Need wireless system Hi Steve I was looking at the AT system too and bandwidth is becoming an issue here but I wouldn't even think about a 2.4GHz system beyond 60' at best .. I think you will get dropouts at 100' and that's a sorta max possible range with a clear line of sight. I doubt whether you would get even 60' if you have people or objects in the way. Wow what do you shoot where your mic needs to be so far away?? I have been told the new Sony UHF gear is pretty good but you need to find someone to test their's for you at extreme ranges to make sure it will be clean over a long distance before you buy it!! Chris

April 11th, 2015, 10:53 PM	#24
Richard Crowley Trustee Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,238	Re: Need wireless system I promise to shoot a proper test and "teardown" of my AT System 10 when I get back from NAB next week (And after I have had a chance to talk to the Audio Technica people!) . Meanwhile, this test by Fred Ginsberg is not perfect (what is?) but it is probably the best one I have seen on YouTube so far: YouTube (Short URL)

April 12th, 2015, 08:17 AM	#25
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,038	Re: Need wireless system "Meanwhile, this test by Fred Ginsberg is not perfect (what is?) but it is probably the best one I have seen on YouTube so far" In addition, Fred works for AT at trade shows and such, so his 'tests' could be skewed to put the product in the best light. I'd like to give on a 'real-world' test myself, here.in RF hell.

April 12th, 2015, 08:47 AM	#26
Richard Crowley Trustee Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,238	Re: Need wireless system Please identify something in the video where you think Mr. Ginsberg was putting the gadget "in the best light". My main criticism of the test was that it didn't cover the "worst-case" where you are using it in a WiFi-saturated place. For example a campus coffee shop where everybody is using WiFi. I intend to perform a test in exactly that kind of environment to see how it operates with that kind of competition.

April 12th, 2015, 06:59 PM	#29
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Need wireless system Fair enough comment Steve Most of our ceremonies here are civil outdoor ones rather than Churches (in fact I only did my first 2015 Church wedding this weekend and I have been super busy this year) My issues are mainly clashing with the Church/Officiant's wireless system or DJ/venue wireless systems ... I guess it depends on your environment as to what will work best. Since he does do reviews for AT Fred could have omitted any poor points about the system 10 but I would doubt that it would be published if the system was a complete and total failure ... It will be interesting to see other tests but again it also depends on what you do and where you do it! Chris

April 14th, 2015, 10:00 AM	#30
Steven Davis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,065	Re: Need wireless system A funny thing happened on the way to the office........ side joke. I did call Sony because of all the literature and reviews I found on line, nobody could spec out the working range of the Sony UWP-D11. After spending 365 days on hold, the pro product support guy from Sony told me that he didn't have any information on the working range of the units. After I got off the floor, I said thank you and hung up. I then was like, do what? lol. Oh well, I did like the monitor output of theSony UWP-D11, but might end up with the Sennheiser again, or an AT system. __________________ What happens if I push the 'Red' button?