Monitoring Audio, FP33, recorder D800 AGAIN UGGGH!

[Jonathan Levin]

Please don't kill me!

It's been a while since I've used this set-up, I've been working on a bunch of still projects.

I just wanted to make sure my set-up is correct. You don't even have to elaborate, just a yes or no, and if no well.....

Recording video to Nikon D800.

Mic/lav to Shure FP33 mixer input, Left/Right OUPUT from mixer to my Marantz 660 recorder xlr INPUT.

1/8"-1/8" cable from TAPE OUT on FP33 to MIC IN on D800 (Scratch track)

1/8"-1/8" cable from HEADPHONE OUT on D800 to MONITOR IN on Shure FP33

Headphone in headphone jack on mixer, and with the above set up I should be able to monitor sound using the switch on the mixer to hear whats going to the recorder and to the camera (not at the same time of course) I pretty much know about the settings of the devices, just fuzzy on the configuration.

Am I good???

Thank you for your patience. I will be practicing, practicing, practicing, practicing, before my project happens, which gratefully is a while away.

Jonathan

[Rick Reineke]

"Mic/lav to Shure FP33 mixer input, Left/Right OUPUT from mixer to my Marantz 660 recorder xlr INPUT."
As I recall the Marantz 660 has a -10dB unbalanced line input. (via 3.5 TRS/stereo jack) So..:
option 1: use the FP33 XLR outs switched to MIC level and the 660's mic level XLRs
option 2: use FP33 XLR outs switched to LINE level and the 660's 1/8" line in with a 10dB or so pad.
(option 2 would be my preference) though you would likely want a custom cable with resisters built in opposed to an inline attenuator. (I think the FP33 XLR outputs are fixed. ( MIC or +4dB LINE).
NOT variable like the SD-302.

"(Scratch track) 1/8"-1/8" cable from TAPE OUT on FP33 to MIC IN on D800"
- The FP33's tape out is -10dB line level and would be a mis-match for the D800's unbalanced mic level input, and I suspect the D800 audio input is not switchable to line.
As I further recall the 660 also has a 3.5 unbalanced line out (via 3.5 TRS/stereo jack) so that may be another output option.

"1/8"-1/8" cable from HEADPHONE OUT on D800 to MONITOR IN on Shure FP33"
- That should work

The Marantz 660 is not to be confused with the newer Marantz 661, which has switchable XLR MIC/LINE input.

[Jonathan Levin]

Hi Rick, and great to hear from you!

First off, yes, I have the 660, not the 661 as you mentioned, so it is MIC level IN for XLR but interestingly in the menu items for input, one of the options is for LINE and INternal, so the output of the FP33 would be switched to MIC level to match the recorder. I believe they are referring to the 1/8" LINE IN (Unbalanced?) on the recorder, not the XLR. I'll be using the XLR

I also had one of the preferences on the recorder MIC ATTEN set to -20DB, which I recall worked for my tests some time ago.

I also spoke to the fellow I got this set up from and he suggested that I plug the headphones into the line out from the 660, and then plug the headphones into the TAPE OUT on the FP33 and which ever had the lower signal (dB), use that to go into the Nikon D800. This goes right along with what you mentioned.

And as I think about this I seem to recall that I went from the LINE OUT on the 660 to the D800 for some reason. Also going along with what you mentioned.

Either way, I plan on testing this day and night until I can do this in my sleep! I'll report back with my findings later today.

Thanks so much for your help. I appreciate it greatly. I owe so many people a drink on the internet, I could file for chapter 13!

Jonathan

[Jonathan Levin]

I've spent the last few days experimenting and have had pretty much good luck. There are a couple of things that I had questions about.

Basic setup that has been working: mic(s) into Shure FP33 Output from FP33 set to MIC level and that feeds into the Marantz 660. (660 is MIC level input only) I have the LINE out from recorder feeding into the Nikon D800 for the scratch track. I also had to set the Attenuation on the reorder to -20dB. Recorder is set to record stereo (L&R)

From the Nikon D800 headphones to the Monitor IN on the FP33.

For my project I will be using a lav on talent and also have a mic boomed in, each mic going into the FP33. Lav panned hard left, and boomed mic panned hard right. So theoretically I should have three tracks, camera, boom, and lav if something goes wrong and the lav or me screw up. The lav audio is what I will use.

So here are my questions: the meter on the 660 just sucks! I hate those little LED lights. I find it difficult to find the right setting: either I clip just a little, or the audio just doesn't seem as robust as the audio recorded to the camera when I compare the two tracks in Final Cut. Auto Level control is set to MANUAL on the recorder. I have unity set on the mixer so that's good. and when speaking the meters on the mixer are -3 or a little over, definitely not going in the red. So that seems good there.

The 660 manual states to keep levels as close to 0dB as possible but not go over, but clipping seems to occur at certain times even if I keep levels at around 12. I also have the limiters engaged on the FP33.

Any insights greatly appreciated as always.

Thanks.

Jonathan

[Rick Reineke]

"The 660 manual states to keep levels as close to 0dB as possible but not go over, but clipping seems to occur at certain times even if I keep levels at around 12."
I recall running levels on a 660 to occasionally hit the first orange (-6.0 dBFS LED) meter light, this allowed headroom for unexpected peaks (along with help from the mixer's limiter). The 660 was not very forgiving and preamp/converter clipping would be quite audible.

[Jonathan Levin]

Hi Rick,

Yeah, when it clips, you really know it! That was my thought to just keep it a little lower than I think. Interestingly, at a certain point in adjusting the volume on the 660, like after 3/4 of the way up, the audio signal/strength doesn't seem to alter that much, though it does clip, but not as much as I would think. Again ALC is off.

Since writing this, I've concluded this: Since my lav is going to be the main source of audio and the boom mic will be for back-up just in case, the best set up here is a multitrack/channel recorder. With that set up, I could have a seperate channel/track for the lav and a seperate one for the boom. Both would be panned center and then in post in logic, FCP X or what ever, I can mix the sound however I want. I'd have the boom just slightly up for some room ambience.

[Rob Neidig]

Jonathan wrote:

"...the best set up here is a multitrack/channel recorder."

The 660 you have IS a multitrack recorder, just that it only has 2 tracks. Pan your lav to the left and your boom to the right (or vice versa) and they will be recorded separately on the 660. Then you an use one, the other or both in post.

Have fun!

Rob

[Jonathan Levin]

One thing that I found out through my testing, is that apparently there is a maximum size card that you can put in the old 660 before it flakes out. I've got a couple of 1 GB cards that format and work fine, but if I put in a new-ish Sandisk Ultra 4 GB CF in the recorder and try and format that, it just does not take. I tried it with two of those, same problem.

I have to se if the even make 1GB cards anymore....

Jonathan

[Rick Reineke]

When I had a 660, I used a 4GB Toshiba CF Microdrive and a Sandisc and both of which worked perfectly. As I recall, they were regular Class 4 (slow) cards. It's possible that Marantz doesn't like the fast cards.
Additionally the CF cards should be FAT16 or FAT32 and re-formatted in the recorder prior to use for the proper allegation table/table of contents.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...1&d=1429021228

[Rob Neidig]

There used to be a list on Marantz's web site of the cards they had certified as good. I have tried several times to Google it and can't find it any more. It seems Marantz may have erased all references to the DR660. In any case, I have also used a SanDisc 4G card quite successfully. I also had a different brand that would record fine, but would not transfer the data through USB, so it really does matter which brand you use. If I ever come across that list of approved cards again, I will try to post a link.

Have fun!

Rob

[Rick Reineke]

Yes, D&M Pro used to have a list of preferred CF cards for the 660. Could not find it either.

[Steven Digges]

Rick, You made me laugh with the photo of the Micro Drive. I have two of the IBM Micro 1gig drives from way back then. For those of you not familiar with them they are called CF II. That is not flash media, there actualy is a spinning HD inside that damn thing! Pretty unbelievable. I think I paid $300.00 each for mine, ouch.

Steve

[Rick Reineke]

Yes, it was like a small HD. I forget what it cost, no where as cheap as today's media fo' sure. Never had any problems with it and I recorded hundreds of all-day legal educational seminars with it. I mixed on the fly and recorded in the mono mode which gave me up to 13 hours record time @16/44. The photo is from when I sold the 660 on eBay five or so years ago.