Piano audio - raising the bar
 

There is a piano recital that I’ll be recording this Saturday, June 11, and I’m beginning to get a little nervous about it because I really need to raise the audio bar. The shoot will be a multicam with two cams but that’s not the problem.

The problem is how to handle the audio. In the past I’ve done a balanced mono recording with a Sennheiser ME-66 / K6 on a boom angled toward the board and run through a JuicedLink pre. The best performer who happens to have a really good ear has really liked the audio quality so far. However, the last recording was a year ago and everyone has really matured in their playing ability. They’ve matured but my audio kit and miking technique has not. It’s time to try and raise the bar.

While I’ve been thinking about what to do and, more lately doing some research, there are more questions than answers and time is running out. The recital will be in a modern church with a high ceiling, no fans, and, say, about 60 people. There will be only one piano and no other instruments or vocalists. The pianists will only be playing classical music.

The available mic kit includes the Sennheiser ME64, ME66, (but only one K6) and a RØDE Stereo Videomic, not exactly the choicest kit but it is what it is, at least for this year. In the past I’ve set the mic stand along side (but not touching) near the middle of the piano with the boom directed toward the middle and the mic slanted down toward the strings, slightly favoring the treble side.

With speaker tweeters, high frequencies are less directional than for woofers. Since a mike is sort of like a speaker in reverse so this is why I chose to favor the high end.

Here are my thoughts:
The ME-64 is more omni than the ME-66, therefore it might be better suited than the ME-66
The ME-66 can be placed further away therefore the difference between the highest and the lowest note strings won’t be as much.
The SVM is stereo so should provide more ambiance to the listener.

The SVM uses a mini cord to the JuicedLink pre while the Sennheisers would use XLR cable.

Attached “Mic Comparison” pdf file is what I have for technical info on the mics.

I’m open for comments with this kit but please realize that any use of a different mic is fine but will have to wait until after this performance (June 11).

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

In the Shure line
Search results for | Shure Americas

The recommendations above mainly cardioid, so the ME64 might be the pattern you want of the mics you listed. However, large diaphragm condenser cardioids appear to be favored. The shotguns will more lobes and frequency notches in their pattern.

http://www.shure.com/publications/mi...ng_english.pdf
Pages 10 and 11 speak to piano recording mice locations.

If you have a "golden ear" critic available, try different locations and mics during a rehearsal and see what the ear prefers.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Don - thanks for the links. I see that Shure dressed up their site since my last visit - looks good. And helpful. This fall we want to do more video work with music including vocal so I’ll be looking for more gear to help out in that area.

The second reference is a nice summary of the various mic positions and position #1 was the one I was using except my distances were more. I’m thinking about 12 to 16” off the strings and maybe 18 to 20” from the hammers, just guessing. I think you’re right about the ME64 over the ME66. When the ME66 was chosen the thinking was it’d be further away from the hammers so as to better pick up the strings on the far sides and not favor the mid strings so much. I hadn’t consulted the polar diagrams at the time but now I see what you’re talking about. Also, the ME64 has a higher SPL of 130 vs the ME66 of 126 dB.

I’m a little intrigued by the Røde mike, though, because of the max SPL of 134 dB and the fact that it’d be stereo and should pick up the high and low (R & L) strings better.

Ed: And speaking of the Golden Ear: I’ve got two people available but we won’t be able to do anything before Saturday. Afterward, yes, but also not on this particular piano, and of course every piano will sound different but perhaps we can get it in the ballpark for next time, and also plan to have access to the piano next time. Our plan is to put something together in time for Christmas but using a different piano and even some other instruments and vocals. Unfortunately for me, time has taken it’s toll so my hearing is well below silver now and I’ll have to rely on others.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Not quite the first time recording piano has been discussed here; some starters for previous threads:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-thin...and-piano.html
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-thin...ing-piano.html
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-thin...and-piano.html
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-thin...g-pianist.html

No disrepect to any advice given so far, just to save on repetition. There are people on dvinfo with a geat deal of experience of this on a professional level, and there are specialist sites (as linked here) which will help.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Also make sure of the position of the Bass Rolloff Switch on the K6. It has a relatively high knee point and would likely make the audio sound too thin if engaged (in my opinion).

I would also choose the ME64 over the ME66 in this situation.

But you would have to make those decisions by ear depending on the exact placement of the mic and the overall character of the venue and the instrument.

The Sennheisers you have are high output, so make sure they don't overload the input of the preamp.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

I would peruse the articles in the Remote Possibilities forum on Gearslutz. Even those who record music on location professionally have varying opinions on mic choice and placement, and they also take the room's acoustics into account.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

I did a concert for TV a few years ago at the Cadogan hall in London and they put two sanken lav mics inside the grand piano and closed the lid, it sounded fantastic.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Piano audio has been one of the more common instruments posted here and I’ve read a lot of them but my problem is the discussions are normally at a much higher level equipment-wise that what I’ve got. Secondly, I’m running out of time! I’m not trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear recording as I recognize the limitations, just something that is better than what I’ve been doing. Once past this gig I’ll be looking for some better gear.

Thanks, Colin. Yes, there are some really great audio people here.

Good point. Also, I plan to put some tape over it to prevent sound coming in from behind.

Also, the polar curves the 64 does look like a better choice than the 66.
As for placement and the ear part, I afraid I won’t be able to field test things out beforehand.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Just to add that the last type of mic I would be putting on a piano is a phase cancellation shotgun, the different sound waves a piano makes are hugely complex and you may be better with just the rode stereo videomic.

If it was me I would be getting a couple of low cost cardioid mic's to use and personally I recommend the Takstar CM60 as it sounds very good for such a low cost mic.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

John,

How many inputs/outputs on your Jucedlink? I am curious about why it is one mic or the other? I like to record audio from more than one source and go to independent tracks. If you are concerned about mic placement down to inches why not feed a track from each mic? I suspect the Jucedlink will not put out two separate tracks? One input panned left, the other right? I am not familiar with those units.

If thats the case can you come up with a cheap XLR interface for the second mic to go to the B cam? Or a cheap audio recorder? I know cheap and good don't usually work. But cheap preamps rear their ugly head the most at high levels. This is a piano, your not going to have to drive them hard. I understand money matters. It just seems like a shame that you have two good mics (I love my ME66) and two cameras and one mic is going to stay in a bag.

We have talked a lot, I am sure you have thought about this. How much would it cost to get that second mic out of the bag? It does not have to be another $400.00 Jucedlink preamp. The quality of portable recorders has gone up and the prices have come down like crazy. Look for a low cost (used maybe) solution and then ask yourself if it is worth it to get a second track to work with in post.

Kind Regards,

Steve

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Probably of no concern to the OP because his piano is at full stick, but I've used this method, too, on closed lid grand pianos to very excellent effect. Really, I was shocked at just how good it sounds. The method is particularly useful to prevent bleed from other instruments, such as percussion in a jazz combo. In my case, I suspended two RODE NT5s with omni capsules between struts atop the piano frame using gaff tape.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Hi Steven,
Inputs:
XLR x 2 inputs
3.5mm stereo x 1
Line level signal input attenuator x 2

Outputs:
3.5mm stereo x 1 output
L/C/R pan switches for each output channel
adjustable gain settings x 2

Mainly because there is only one K6 module. Probably should consider getting another, though.
Not concerned about inches; am concerned about mic choice and placement.
With only one K6 there can be only one track, except … if one of the tracks was with the Røde SVM. The ‘long' 3.5mm stereo extension cable I have is not high quality nor is it that long, maybe 10 or 12 feet? I’ve got lots of XLR cables though.

For info, slight change in plans,I talked to one of the parents this morning and we’re thinking of scaling down “the production” a bit so as not to impinge on the experience of others. We have another really nice grand piano available and we’ll use it for those who want a better staged video but on another date. In this case I can use my lighting kit and maybe it’ll buy some time to acquire other gear.

For this gig, though, the plan is to have the AX100 wide on a tripod, controlled with a 3 ft/1m long remote cable. Unfortunately, the IR remote sensor on the cam is on the lens side. The piano is on a shallow stage about 2 ft high as I recall, (I hope there is not a tripod height issue) and the AX53 will be for B-cam. If the audience feels too, shall we say, ‘stiff’, the B-cam won’t be used. At recital performances it seems like everybody tends to be a tad uptight until it’s over. It is somewhat stressful for the players and even parents.

I’d really like to get a recorder, but which one? That’s a whole ‘nuther post. I’ve read lots of other peoples posts and just can’t decide.
Edit: If the second mic is the Sennheiser, say, ME-66 (the ME-64 being the other one), it would need the K6 module and that would have to be ordered and there’s no time. The Rode mic, on the other hand, all I might need is a 3.5mm female to female connector.

The other Sennheiser needs a second K6 so it’d have to be ordered and there’s no time.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

In addition to the $250.00 K6 power module it it seems they could make a cheap adapter without the transformer and battery circuits so you could just run it phantom power only. I wish they would, but there is probably a reason over my head. Or they want the $250.00.....

In regards to performers being nervous about the cameras....I am not polite enough to ask first. I would set up both cameras and only take one down if they asked me to. No one will regret two cameras after they see your video. But I get it, It sounds like you have a vested interest in the whole experience of the performance, not just the video. But even if you are doing this as a favor it should be a two camera shoot so they can see hands....isn't it? A keyboard shot could come from an unobtrusive place.

I'm not sure what your comments about your light kit meant? Video lighting bothers people far more than cameras in most situations. Those are nice little new camcorders, can't they handle the ambient room light?

Kind Regards,

Steve

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Steve - I don’t know what is in the K6 but it must be something like a miniature pre, taking the small voltage from the mic head and boosting it.

There is a saying: An amateur musician plays a piece until they get it right. The professional plays the piece until they don’t get it wrong. (or something like that) All these recital pianists are amateurs and the pieces for their individual level are tough.

Hey, you’ve played this piece a lot and just recently got it down pat a number of times, but now you got all these people watching you play … and it can make one very nervous. Certainly, it depends on the individual. Some just play on, others get all sweaty hands and the fingers shake, so it all depends. There is one gal that is really good, a freshman in high school, and last semester played for the girls choir because the school couldn’t find a player, and she has a cool head. They had an adjudication in Seattle last month and she did really well in it. At age 10 and after a few days she pretty much had “Bumble Boogie” down pat, by memory, no notes! Her younger sister, on the other hand, has a gorgeous playing style, really has feeling in what she plays, but doesn’t have near the confidence. Some might call it stage freight.

I agree but it’s a very wide and open stage and no place to hide. I really, really wanted a B-cam shot but the chances are looking remote now. I’ll have it ready to go depending on the conditions.

The lighting where the other grand piano is isn’t all that good. One light I like is a hair and shoulders light - have a Dedo LEDzilla for that, nice little light. Have a Comer 1800LED which could be used - adjustable output (really nice light), and three light panels, also adjustable output. The right kind of lighting can add a little pizzaz to a bland shoot. With the hair light from behind I don’t think it would be too bothersome.

Although the church lighting isnt the worlds greatest and rain is forecast for Saturday so not counting on any spill to help, the AX100 and the AX53 should still handle the situation okay. Looking forward to the z150 as the next cam, so far no serious ‘gotchas'. The Comer light uses the same batteries as the z150.

Edit: Depending on the lighting, another thought is to have the AX53 wide and the AX100 for the B-cam because the AX100 would work better light-wise in tele. We’ll see.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Maybe it's just me but...

I personally don't like to get too close to the piano with the mics because I always hear too much hammer/action sound which I find distracting, as well as too much percussive sound and separation of treble and bass. I'd want to be about 6 to 8 feet away and aimed at the center of the raised lid if it's on full stick although I might change my mind depending on the specific pieces being performed. I feel that the piano sound is so complex that it requires some distance to let the sounds "blend" for most classical pieces, but in the case of Bach (who actually wrote for Harpsichord) the percussive sound works well as it does for more modern pieces so I'd be more open to close mic-ing and aiming at the strings..

I have recorded with a pair of small DPA "lav" mics inside the piano and a couple are permanently under the cover of my wife's grand in case she wants to record something, but the sound is never, to our ears at least, as smooth and rich as what we get when recording a bit further away. Unless smooth rich sound isn't what you're after.

Of course the space in which the piano sits is a big piece of the equation. As are some small details such as whether the piano is on full or half or short stick.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

OK, as many threads do, the story unfolds, I should have picked up more on "recital". So this is ALL children playing for parents? Is one of the kids yours? At first I had my audio hat on and thought you may be recording this for your church group or a paid gig but did not pick up it is entirely kids. Sorry. You are getting far better audio advise from others than I can offer about recording a piano.

So, I am going to make a comment about lighting. I am not sure where I recently read it, but it was a very good reminder for someone like me that has done this for a while. The jist of the article was that for old hands like me we were trained to over power the ambient light we could not control with our own blasters we could control. With the two cameras you have I would think about "mixing your light" with the ambient light to achieve the subtle effect you desire and not bother the performers.

Sorry, I have not been much use to you in this thread.

Kind Regards,

Steve

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Steven! You’re okay! What you’ve helped with is perfectly alright and very appreciated. Yes, there are some kids but the older ones are taller than many of the adults and very mature. More mature than some adults one sees on the evening news. Actually, at least a couple of the older ones perform for money so technically that makes them professionals even though they’re in high school or college.

As a disclaimer, none of the kids are mine and I don’t know anyone who belongs to the church. I do play an instrument though. Started out as a teen with a guitar and proceeded to run my left finger tips though a Skill saw so that ended my “Johnny Be Good” performing career. (Construction work can be dangerous) After they healed and got some feeling back several years later I went to the piano. Moving around the country made it difficult to take it along and several years ago I took up the accordion. I’ve got a number of friends, who play instruments or do vocals, some are professionals, and they like to have videos of themselves. Sometimes there’s money and sometimes there isn’t, but there is always good will. This particular shoot isn’t for money directly but there are other rewards. Plus, this is a waypoint along a path toward bigger and better related gigs. Each one is a new learning experience. The advice and input of everyone here is valued and welcome.

I was reading Jim Andrade’s post before yours about having the lid raised and not doing close miking. That’s very interesting and I’ll have to check it out. I know a nice grand in a home, potentially a similar room to the one Jim has so we’ll see how it goes. Everything I’ve ever read about miking and recording a piano has opinions all over the map. Unfortunately, I’m not the best source of what sounds good anymore so I do what I can.

With regard to lighting, I’ve heard that one before too, and I appreciate the comment about trying to not bother the performers. I don’t like bright light either and for me most light is bright. Your comment is well taken and welcome.

-= John =-

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

How to record a real piano. Might be a place to start learning. Piano is perhaps the single most difficult instrument to record well.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Recording a piano in a recital with an audience is probably the most tricky thing any newcomer to audio recording can do. As mentioned - there are plenty of forum topic on this - but the best ones are on audio forums, NOT video ones.

I have fingers in many pies and one of my regular collaborators is a classical pianist and we produce specialist audio CDs.

NONE of my video mics ever see any use recoding pianos. They are great for what they do, but not for pianos. To be honest, they do a reasonable job - but you can do much better. Even more oddly, so much depends on the venue. Until you hear it, you cannot decide on your most appropriate technique. The audience present a problem. Many of the best techniques to let the piano shine will pick up too much audience - especially if they're a bit non-recording friendly, so your first task is to decide if you use a stereo technique, and record with the acoustics of the venue assisting the pianos rich sound, or if you close mic the piano, and capture the clarity but not the acoustic. If I had to pick two mics from my collection to take that would do both roles pretty well, it would be my AKG414s. You have all the patterns and mounting possibilities and then you pick the right one once you are there. I'd absolutely not record it on the camera. Few are really that good at it. Separate recorder and sync after. Many mic techniques will also intrude into the picture.

I'd strongly suggest finding a person who is experienced to do it for you - it really is a job on it's own, and not something you can manage while peering into a viewfinder.

What's been suggested will work - but it won't sound like any commercial CD of a piano recital. In fact - if you have lots of kids playing - poor recording technique can make them sound even worse!

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

This is so true! I play in a community orchestra that has players of a wide variety of ages and skill levels. Sometimes a parent records us with a small recorder placed in the middle of a fifth or sixth row pew. Our intonation isn't perfect to begin with, but add in weird short reflections and phasing and those small tuning errors turn into warbling mud. Still, it's good to hear our tempo and where the piece does and doesn't work as we rehearse it. I hold my tongue on their recording techniques. ;)

And that reminds me - make sure that the piano is well and recently tuned. Each key strikes three or so strings, so any note can be off in three different directions! Poor tuning coupled with poor recording can make even good players sound bad.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

A piano has strings? Is there six or twelve of them? It must hurt if the lid falls on your hands! ;-) ;-) :-)

Steve

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Yes, nothing worse than a out-of-tune piano (or other instrument for that matter) a no-win situation for everyone. Get a pro piano tuner in there for sure.
FWIW- prior to sound for picture, I was an NYC music recording engineer and eventually became chef engineer in a studio owned by two siblings, (Rave and Bill Tesar) a jazz pianist and a drummer. The studio also had a 1948 Steinway and a vintage1960s B3 w/Leslie,

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Had a post ready to go yesterday then hit Submit and it disappeared. This one will be shorter.
That’s what I’ve been reading everywhere.

For now we’ll go with the “reasonable job” but single ME-64 and record via the low-noise JuicedLink pre to the cam. The ones I wanted to capture have agreed to a separate take at a home. Looking ahead, though, there are others who would like videos with their instruments and they include a harp, cello, several accordionists, and a vocalist, all solo shots.

Taking your AKG414 suggestion and doing a search reveals they are very flexible mics. None of these people are expecting professional recordings like what you’re doing so managing expectations will be easy as this will be the first time for all of them.

Because I’ve seen the prices for a matched pair of 414s (which isn’t going to happen), one thought is to pick up a second ME-64 for now ~350, or … get ONE 414. If I go the single ME-64 now and everybody likes their recordings and business picks up, then I can see about a pair of 414s. Question: for these other instruments and vocal (all solo), is this something the 414 would be for? As for recording a piano it seems that the mic recommendations (and positions) are all over the place. When the time comes I’ll probably repost this question as a separate thread.

As for the venue and acoustic or close mic the piano options, this will be for later as more research and reading is needed.

“I’d strongly suggest finding a person who is experienced to do it for you”: I know someone who might work so we’ll see.

I’ve been needing a field recorder for a long time but the models change faster than I can make a decision. Last year the one I was closing on was the Tascam DR-100mkII but I haven’t looked lately.
P.S. Lost my post again but this time I saved it first :-)

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

In a word, yes. I have a matched pair of 414s. They are very versatile. As an experiment, I used them recently as a main pair for a choral performance in NOS configuration and set to "wide cardioid." The result was glorious. At another recent concert, I used a single 414 set to cardioid to separately record a ukelele and an acoustic guitar for a small folk music group. The strummed instruments sounded wonderful; the house sound guy at the concert gushed at their sound.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

My pair of 414s are not matched - but despite that, I'm very happy.

The one thing I have noticed is that while you can often get away with little issues in the video side of the business, every damn client is an audio expert. Like it or not, everyone is bombarded with audio and people might not know quality, but they do notice sound that is 'different'. They probably can't even explain it, but they do have limits.

If you start to record live natural acoustic instruments, you'll soon realise that it's a very specific skill that relies on history, memory, science and a touch of luck. Pianos can be tough - they all sound different and you cannot just follow a set procedure - it always needs tweaking after you listen.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Thanks guys! Y’all have been a great help. Just spent the evening going thorugh some calibration scenarios with the cam and the pre using my upright piano and my wife for talking and it’s a good thing I did. Trying to minimize how much kit to take I would have forgotten the little pigtail that goes between the JuicedLink pre and the cam. Whew! Dodged that bullet.

Tomorrow is the big day and it’ll be an early start. Lots of road construction and baseball game traffic to contend with.

That’s music to my ears! (Ha, ha)

They don’t say audio is 2/3rds of video for nothing.
One accoustic guitar player site I’ve been to have a lot to say about miking.

For info, this afternoon I was on eBay just to see what was there and it’s amazing how many “Matched Pair” are listed. And yet, on the AKG web site they say how they go through a lot of mikes to find matched pairs. Hmmm…. The AKG site also has a page warning about counterfeits. What ever happened to the days when you could trust a dealer to have the real thing?

Anyway, read where one guy bought a gold and a silver kit in a deal where you buy one, get one at half price. Guess silver is with the various settings and the gold is considered for vocals?

Thanks again everybody.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

I haven't seen a counterfeit 414 for quite a while now - they're too expensive to make as copies/counterfeits - so no volume sales. As they are expensive to buy - many people like me bought one, then saved up for the other one. A matched pair of any mics is ideal, but just economically painful!

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Paul,
Good to hear that. For my work given the price difference I don’t think I need ‘matched’ either.

A little update (the rest of the story)
Sometimes things don’t go quite as planned and today was one of those. Kind of a mixed bag. Got word they changed the recital venue to a different church but no problem there, just plug the address into the navigation device then hit Enter then Go.

Swung by Glazier’s (camera shop) in downtown Seattle as they were having a Photofest PhotoFest 2016 at their new store with lots of manufacturers reps. I had planned on spending a little bit of time there and it was interesting. The Tascam rep had a lot of interesting recorders on display and I’ve been wanting one for quite some time so this was a good opportunity to see what they had to offer. I’m not an impulse buyer and tend to throughly check everything out, especially for things like ‘gotchas’, I hate spending money on something where you ‘have to deal with it’ or it doesn’t do everything you want, or it has difficult work arounds.

Today was different. I really didn’t want to string any cable across the floor and also didn’t have any dry run to check the recording levels. But wouldn’t you know it, the stuff was on SALE. Hmmm… Wound up examining the DR-44WL because (1) it looked really good, (2) 4 channel recorder and one could set two channels up as a safety, (3) the XLR inputs were really useful as they would also accept 1/4” phono jack and 3.5mm mini via a phono jack adapter. How nifty is that? Really nice level tracking compared to the rinky-dink one on the cam, and more features that I haven’t figured out yet. Oh, and bluetooth. I can operate it with my iPhone! No need to string a cable across the floor. I was sold. Downloaded the Tascam app from the Apple App Store and with the sales rep Joel Grubbs we set up the safety tracks and I was ready to go. Talk about an impulse buy.

Off to the church venue and they didn’t open up until slightly before 4 and everyone started going in. The piano was at floor level instead on a stage like the other place so that was good; however, it was right in front of the first row of pews, only a few feet away. Adding insult to injury, they adjusted the keyboard so there wasn’t a good place to set the tripod up and get a good angle shot and there was virtually no way to use the B-cam. I talked to those we were going to shoot about the problems and we agreed to forget it this time and go with the plan of doing separate shoots later.

The good news is the recorder will up my game for future shoots so that’s a real plus (if there’s no gotchas!). In the end, we had a very pleasant evening with one of the families and beat the Mariner’s baseball traffic home (they were at the top of the 9th when we left).

This DR-44 seems like a nifty recorder. Can’t say I exactly enjoy the wheel joystick, though, but we’ll see.

So that’s my report and there you have it.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

A school group I know of received a used piano, free and clear. They couldn't use it though, because there were no strings attached.

On the bright side, if these recordings are for parents of typical young students almost anything you do will be better than the handi-cam from the fifth row using the internal mic.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Out of curiosity I checked with my Chinese mic suppliers - and they tell me that the C3000 series is available, but they cannot source me a 414 - so, looks like beware of any C3000's going cheap on ebay. Apparently I can have them at $130 if I like.

Re: Piano audio - raising the bar
 

Glad it all worked out. Piano is one of the hardest because everything depends on everything else. And the instrument is large enough to present a whole different set of challenges,

My wife used to perform with various other instrumentalists and I guess the only thing "worse" than recording piano by itself is recording piano plus X.