DV Info Net

DV Info Net (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/)
-   All Things Audio (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/)
-   -   One mic for 3 camera shoot (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/53583-one-mic-3-camera-shoot.html)

Jay Massengill November 9th, 2005 06:39 PM

Actually on the BeachTek when set to MONO mode you should keep the unused channel set to Maximum, otherwise it does reduce the signal from the single mic. Since it's a passive device, it won't be providing any gain for any interference that might creep in, but the unused control does have an attenuating effect on the mic signal.
It doesn't affect it as much per click stop as the control for the input channel you're plugged into, but it does affect it some. At times I'll use this as a trim control, using a click stop or two on the off side as a finer control than a single click on the used side. It also doesn't seem to change the level in the off-side of the two-channel mono output, it loads both channels down a little.
The Line/Mic switch on the off side doesn't seem to provide any change in attenuation though because I believe it's upstream of where the MONO mixing occurs.

Lorenzo Durand November 10th, 2005 03:47 AM

Wow, I bet that's not in the instruction manual.

Steve House November 10th, 2005 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenzo Durand
Wow, I bet that's not in the instruction manual.

Actually it is - they recommend the unused channel is set fully clockwise to prevent loading. The convention with almost anything, including the Beachtek, is that you turn a volume control clockwise to make it louder. Because this is an attenuator that cuts the signal strength, turning the control UP, clockwise, makes the signal louder by turning DOWN the amount of reduction, the control actually having the least effect on the system when it's all the way up. It's actually the opposite of the circuit properties of most level controls where turning them up increases their influence in the circuit. Since it's the presence of attentuation in the unused channel that can load down the active channel, Jay is correct. ROFL When did I sleep last!

Daniel Rudd November 15th, 2005 02:11 PM

urelated suggestions
 
And I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but you can save some time in post if you manually white balance your cameras to a sheet of white paper. (I believe that the Optura has this capacity).
Daniel

Lorenzo Durand November 18th, 2005 03:45 AM

What is the mic distance for optimum sound using the AT4053a on a boom indoors? Is outdoors any different?

Thanks.

Steve House November 18th, 2005 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenzo Durand
What is the mic distance for optimum sound using the AT4053a on a boom indoors? Is outdoors any different?

Thanks.

For *optimum* sound, as close as possible without intruding into the shot.

Ty Ford November 18th, 2005 07:18 AM

The difference is you don't want to use a shotgun inside at all unless you're on a set.

To understand why, go to the video folder in my on line archive and download the instructional mp4. See and hear for yourself.


Regards,

Ty Ford

Lorenzo Durand November 20th, 2005 03:10 AM

Thanks guys.

I would like to shoot some scenes indoors without the boom and camera operator present, only the 4 actors by themselves.

Is it possible to mic with the boom set in a position (on a stand/whatever) getting all 4 actors sitting close to each other on a couch?
If possible, how close should the actors be?

Ty Ford November 20th, 2005 03:36 PM

If the boom op knows their lines and who's talking next, yes. Otherwise life gets a lot more difficult.

Ty Ford

Lorenzo Durand November 22nd, 2005 03:29 AM

Hey Ty am a bit confused by your reply. My question was about shooting a couple of scenes with no boom operator, just the AT4053a. Can I place the mic so that I could get all 4 actors dialogue? They would be sitting in a semi-circle with 1 foot spacing between. Thanks Ty.

Ty Ford November 22nd, 2005 07:06 AM

Hey Lorenzo,

Four people in a semi cricle each a foot apart. Each body is about 1.5 feet wide.

If you put the mic in the middle, the two on the end will be off mic by at least three feet.

The difference will be audible even if they are in a huddle.

Then there's what happens when (not if) one person's voice is a LOT LOUDER than the rest.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Steve House November 22nd, 2005 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenzo Durand
Hey Ty am a bit confused by your reply. My question was about shooting a couple of scenes with no boom operator, just the AT4053a. Can I place the mic so that I could get all 4 actors dialogue? They would be sitting in a semi-circle with 1 foot spacing between. Thanks Ty.

I have to ask - why would a director (that's you!) want to shoot a scene where he doesn't know what the actors are doing? If you have a nude scene or something sensitive like that you might have a closed set and just have essential crew present but that certainly would include the camera operator, director, and sound person (even if those hats are worn by less than three people) because those three skills behind the camera are absolutely essential (IMHO).

Ty Ford November 22nd, 2005 07:20 AM

"To be or not to be, that is the qurrz3lorp" - Monkey #19,483

Exactly!

Ty Ford

Lorenzo Durand November 26th, 2005 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House
I have to ask - why would a director (that's you!) want to shoot a scene where he doesn't know what the actors are doing? If you have a nude scene or something sensitive like that you might have a closed set and just have essential crew present but that certainly would include the camera operator, director, and sound person (even if those hats are worn by less than three people) because those three skills behind the camera are absolutely essential (IMHO).

Steve, I am one of the four actors, so the captain is on the bridge.

I shot my first feature on 16mm, I had a sound crew and sound equipment borrowed from Kevin Patterson (Soundman on Schwarzeneggers ERASER).

This time it's shooting on DV. I plan to supervise location sound. "Now Hear This" forum is part of my sound education. I'm going to put Ty's Audio Bootcamp guide in my library. I appreciate you guys helping me navigate through the audio requirements for this flick. The more info you guys know, the more I know.

The movie is scriptless, only a detailed outline with certain objectives for every scene. For some scenes I want to shoot with an extra Optura (four cams) without the crew (cam op/boom op), because of the delicate/sensitive subject matter.

Most of the scenes involve the 4 actors together, randomly speaking and telling thier stories. Would a AT4051a cardioid pick up the 2 outside actors better than the AT4053a? Would it help if the 2 loudest actors were on the outside of the semi-circle? Is there a better way to place the actors?

Steve House November 26th, 2005 07:11 AM

Frankly (who is this "Frank" anyway?) for that one I'd use lavs or mics hidden on the set instead of on a boom. At the very least this calls for multiple mics with a whole set of new problems such as phasing etc that go along with that. The problem is that you have conflicting criteria...

With a directional mic it should be pointed directly at the sound source. Hypercardioids are a little less stringent in that regard than shotguns but it still is true for them. No matter where you put the mic, with only one mic at best only one of the four speakers will be in the hotspot at any one time. Part of a boomer's job would be to keep moving the mic to aim it at the person speaking.

As Ty mentioned, people move when they talk so you need to follow that as well as the shifts in conversation from person to person.

Going with a less directional mic like a cardioid or omni can help the aiming issue but you still have the fact that no matter where you put it, the various talent will be a diffferent distances from the mic, leading to different levels and tonal qualities.

Sound really needs to be recorded up-close and personal and putting lavs, hidding them if needed, on each actor would be the best solution. Remember how much the tonal quality and level of Ty's voice changed with the mics Another choice to consider would be a stereo pair of cardioids aimed left and right or a brace of hypercardioids for each actor mounted on low stands out-of-shot below the image frame. That far from the talent it's still going to be iffy getting a good recording but it still would be better than hanging one fixed position mic over them and hoping.

You've got me really curious what would be acceptable for an audience to hear and but not for the crew doing the filming.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:02 AM.

DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2021 The Digital Video Information Network