Need a microphone that won't need voice processor at DVinfo.net

David Pakman · August 15th, 2018, 04:19 PM

Hi all,

At my studio, I use an EV RE20 through a DBX 286a voice processor, into a Mackie, and then to our Tricaster system. This the sound we currently have:

I am developing a mobile setup wherein I'll be using a Teradek Cube to send my video over IP from remote locations back to our studio. As much as I'd love to have the same audio setup, dragging around a DBX 286a isn't practical because of its size, but at the same time, I don't like the sound of the EV without running it through a voice processor...too much room noise without the gate, and just generally it doesn't sound great.

So, I'm looking for another mic I could use when I am remote that would sound tight without a voice processor. I was once recommended the Shure Beta 87c but am unsure i there are other options to try out. What would you recommend that would give me a good sound run directly into a small Behringer mixer?

Pete Cofrancesco · August 15th, 2018, 04:38 PM

A decent quality wired lav will isolate your voice from background noise. Wireless if you are moving.

David Pakman · August 15th, 2018, 04:43 PM

What would be some examples of the quality wired lavs you are referring to?

Pete Cofrancesco · August 15th, 2018, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Pakman

What would be some examples of the quality wired lavs you are referring to?

I consider $200-300 mid range or decent. I use the Audio Technica AT899.
Curtis Judd gives a great review of lavs you can judge for yourself. You will also learn that from him that the proper technique is equally important.

David Pakman · August 15th, 2018, 05:18 PM

interestingly I have an AT899 and tested it earlier today with this setup and the background noise was horrifying

Pete Cofrancesco · August 15th, 2018, 06:24 PM

What do you mean by background noise? Do you mean the self noise of the microphone or the ambient sound in the room from the ac, traffic, people talking, etc. No other type of mic isolates better than a lav. I often have read here people are trying to do things that exceed normal practices that no equipment can realistically solve.

David Pakman · August 15th, 2018, 06:25 PM

yeah room tone and general hollow/echoey sound

Pete Cofrancesco · August 15th, 2018, 07:45 PM

Sounds like the room acoustics are exceeding what mic is capable of isolating. You need some sort of portable sound booth solution. Could be as simple as a blanket or a more elegant portable sound booth product. Technique is often more important than equipment.

Brian Drysdale · August 16th, 2018, 01:01 AM

The traditional method is a lip mic, used by commentator at sporting events,

https://www.canford.co.uk/Products/9...MICROPHONE-Lip

Jim Feeley · August 16th, 2018, 09:31 AM

Ya, Coles lip mics are cool and work great.

You could also look at headset mics...ie, headphones with integrated boom mics. I've worked with various Sennheiser, ClearCom, and Shure models (that I recall), but don't own any.
https://www.bswusa.com/Headsets--C253.aspx

On some gigs, we'll have headsets for most of the day, with lip mics just in case... Like these two:
https://amp.businessinsider.com/imag...4f-750-398.jpg

Seth Bloombaum · August 16th, 2018, 09:35 AM

We don’t see the Coles lip mics much on this side of the pond. Not saying they’re not here, they may be, but I’ve never seen one at retail or rental.

I’m a big fan of the Countryman e6i “earset” mic. It’s a lot like a lav in its engineering, but, the placement an inch or two away from the mouth makes a huge difference in handling ambient sound and room reflections. And, it’s a very good sounding mic. Its available in configs for various wireless transmitters, and, for XLR wired operation.

I first became aware of it for on-stage work when presenters would wander the stage. A conventional lav’s sound varies a lot, and it may feedback on-stage, depending. The e6i is very solid, because of that rejection of ambient sound, including feedback.

Granted, it’s a little intrusive visually, but it does work really well!

https://www.countryman.com/e6-earset-microphone/

There are hundreds of configs for this mic - it’s available for just about any wireless set, in several different colors (black, or skin tones), and 2 different cable diameters. The 3-pin XLR version does require phantom power, IIRC.

Bruce Watson · August 16th, 2018, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Pakman

...I'm looking for another mic I could use when I am remote that would sound tight without a voice processor. I was once recommended the Shure Beta 87c but am unsure i there are other options to try out. What would you recommend that would give me a good sound run directly into a small Behringer mixer?

Most people / local news outlets use lavs for this kind of work. If you want to find out what it sounds like, I'd suggest an Oscar Soundtech 802 mounted on your lapel about sternum high or between the second and third buttons on your shirt. I've got a couple and they work a treat for me. Get the "power supply - XLR" that lets you power the lav like you would a normal condenser mic (it converts phantom power from an XLR cable into plug-in power for the lav). If you like using a lav, learn how to properly mount it using a strain relief loop.

If this doesn't do enough for you in blocking room sound, the next step up is an ear-set mic like a Countryman E6. I'd use a cardioid or hyper for this duty because the mic is going to maintain the distance and orientation to your mouth no matter how you move, so it's safe enough. IOW, it won't give you problems with going in and out of pattern, nor will it give you any variable proximity effect.

If that doesn't do enough for you, you've got next to no choice but to start working on fixing the room.

If you really like the visual of the RE20 in the shot, you can keep it as a prop. Then you could boom a good hyper like a Schoeps CMC6 mk41 just above the top frame of the shot, pointing down at your mouth at about a 45 degree angle. This puts it around 45-60cm away from your mouth. If you don't want a boom op to boom it, then a c-stand, a boom pole holder, and a boom pole works fine too, as long as you don't move so much that you get out of pattern. But judging from the clip you provided, it doesn't look like that would be a problem for you.

Greg Miller · August 22nd, 2018, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

No other type of mic isolates better than a lav.

I find it hard to understand why a lav (usually an omni) at 6" to 8" from the mouth would isolate better than a good omni announce mic, or a good cardioid announce mic with LF rolloff, located 1" from the mouth. (You'd need the rolloff to compensate for the proximity effect that results from working a cardioid mic too close.)

At 4" distance, the voice SPL arriving at the lav will be -12dB lower than that arriving at the 1" mic.
At 8" distance, the SPL level difference will be -18dB.
That means that a mic at 1" already has a 12dB to 18dB improvement in room S/N, compared to a lav clipped at 6" to 8" from the speaker's mouth.

(Of course you could use the lav 1" away from the speaker's mouth, if you're willing to hold it there.)

Richard Crowley · August 23rd, 2018, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Miller

(Of course you could use the lav 1" away from the speaker's mouth, if you're willing to hold it there.)

That is called a headset mic. Increasingly seen everywhere. It was the very first suggestion in this discussion and the OP never responded to the suggestion. Still the best suggestion here IMHO.

Pete Cofrancesco · August 23rd, 2018, 04:53 PM

It seems like people here have the need to out do other people’s suggestions. Like I said earlier finding the right approach for given situation is more important. In this case improving acoustics makes more sense than than trying to find a mic to over come them. I saw that he had created a thread before this one on the very same subject of the room acoustics. The headset isn’t a bad idea either, but it’s bad look if he is filming himself. At the end of the day there no substitute for a little common sense and being able to adapt. The claim that the AT899 mic is terrible is ridiculous. There a wide variety of mics that could be used for this situation but why run out and spend more money when he owns a perfectly capable mic.

August 15th, 2018, 04:19 PM	#1
David Pakman Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 35	Need a microphone that won't need voice processor Hi all, At my studio, I use an EV RE20 through a DBX 286a voice processor, into a Mackie, and then to our Tricaster system. This the sound we currently have: UH-OH: The Trump N-Word Tapes ARE REAL?! - YouTube I am developing a mobile setup wherein I'll be using a Teradek Cube to send my video over IP from remote locations back to our studio. As much as I'd love to have the same audio setup, dragging around a DBX 286a isn't practical because of its size, but at the same time, I don't like the sound of the EV without running it through a voice processor...too much room noise without the gate, and just generally it doesn't sound great. So, I'm looking for another mic I could use when I am remote that would sound tight without a voice processor. I was once recommended the Shure Beta 87c but am unsure i there are other options to try out. What would you recommend that would give me a good sound run directly into a small Behringer mixer?

August 15th, 2018, 04:38 PM	#2
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,997	Re: Need a microphone that won't need voice processor A decent quality wired lav will isolate your voice from background noise. Wireless if you are moving.

August 15th, 2018, 04:43 PM	#3
David Pakman Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 35	Re: Need a microphone that won't need voice processor What would be some examples of the quality wired lavs you are referring to?

August 15th, 2018, 05:18 PM	#5
David Pakman Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 35	Re: Need a microphone that won't need voice processor interestingly I have an AT899 and tested it earlier today with this setup and the background noise was horrifying

August 15th, 2018, 06:24 PM	#6
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,997	Re: Need a microphone that won't need voice processor What do you mean by background noise? Do you mean the self noise of the microphone or the ambient sound in the room from the ac, traffic, people talking, etc. No other type of mic isolates better than a lav. I often have read here people are trying to do things that exceed normal practices that no equipment can realistically solve.

August 15th, 2018, 06:25 PM	#7
David Pakman Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 35	Re: Need a microphone that won't need voice processor yeah room tone and general hollow/echoey sound

August 15th, 2018, 07:45 PM	#8
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,997	Re: Need a microphone that won't need voice processor Sounds like the room acoustics are exceeding what mic is capable of isolating. You need some sort of portable sound booth solution. Could be as simple as a blanket or a more elegant portable sound booth product. Technique is often more important than equipment.

August 16th, 2018, 01:01 AM	#9
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: Need a microphone that won't need voice processor The traditional method is a lip mic, used by commentator at sporting events, https://www.canford.co.uk/Products/9...MICROPHONE-Lip Coles 4104B - Broadcast Ribbon - Pure Wave Audio - YouTube

August 16th, 2018, 09:31 AM	#10
Jim Feeley Supports LPFM Radio Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern California USA Posts: 168	Re: Need a microphone that won't need voice processor Ya, Coles lip mics are cool and work great. You could also look at headset mics...ie, headphones with integrated boom mics. I've worked with various Sennheiser, ClearCom, and Shure models (that I recall), but don't own any. https://www.bswusa.com/Headsets--C253.aspx On some gigs, we'll have headsets for most of the day, with lip mics just in case... Like these two: https://amp.businessinsider.com/imag...4f-750-398.jpg

August 16th, 2018, 09:35 AM	#11
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Re: Need a microphone that won't need voice processor We don’t see the Coles lip mics much on this side of the pond. Not saying they’re not here, they may be, but I’ve never seen one at retail or rental. I’m a big fan of the Countryman e6i “earset” mic. It’s a lot like a lav in its engineering, but, the placement an inch or two away from the mouth makes a huge difference in handling ambient sound and room reflections. And, it’s a very good sounding mic. Its available in configs for various wireless transmitters, and, for XLR wired operation. I first became aware of it for on-stage work when presenters would wander the stage. A conventional lav’s sound varies a lot, and it may feedback on-stage, depending. The e6i is very solid, because of that rejection of ambient sound, including feedback. Granted, it’s a little intrusive visually, but it does work really well! https://www.countryman.com/e6-earset-microphone/ There are hundreds of configs for this mic - it’s available for just about any wireless set, in several different colors (black, or skin tones), and 2 different cable diameters. The 3-pin XLR version does require phantom power, IIRC. __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

August 23rd, 2018, 04:53 PM	#15
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,997	Re: Need a microphone that won't need voice processor It seems like people here have the need to out do other people’s suggestions. Like I said earlier finding the right approach for given situation is more important. In this case improving acoustics makes more sense than than trying to find a mic to over come them. I saw that he had created a thread before this one on the very same subject of the room acoustics. The headset isn’t a bad idea either, but it’s bad look if he is filming himself. At the end of the day there no substitute for a little common sense and being able to adapt. The claim that the AT899 mic is terrible is ridiculous. There a wide variety of mics that could be used for this situation but why run out and spend more money when he owns a perfectly capable mic.