Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Hi!

I always liked the inbuilt mic on my HL-H1A with its mono/stereo switch and generally good performance, and would like to use it with other cameras. But I have not been able to figure out its full specifications, especially not the wirings of the two plugs. The local Canon guy who used to know a lot about the XL series couldn't help me with this. Is there anybody out there who can?

Best

Helge (now on Panasonic GH4/GH5)

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Short answer: Not recommended. Buy a shotgun mic, a comparable quality one isn’t expensive. Sennheiser sells one design to mount on a dslr or get traditional xlr shotgun on a boom/stand.

Long answer: The longer plug most likely carries the audio and the short one delivers the power but it’s probably 5v instead of the standard 24/48v. So rewiring it to xlr and feed standard phantom power would likely damage it.

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Pete,

I am not after one more shotgun. As shotgun when filming birds I use a Telinga parabole with a very high quality Stereo DAT microphone. I also own a Roede Videomic Pro+ that has a shotgun-like profile. It is more easy to handle, but still of good quality and I use it for making simple music videos. The problem is that is mono only. That's why I am considering the old XL-H1A mic. I often used mine for music. If I hadn't been so impressed by its performance there, or if it had not had the mono/stereo switch, I had probably bought a stereo mic with inbuilt power (suitable for GH4/GH5).

How to fix the power supply for the XL-H1A mic in its new use should not be difficult to solve. But I badly need the wiring details!

Helge

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Helge,

Yes the Canon XL series had good mics on them. I owned several of those cameras. I never confirmed it but they were always rumored to be Sennheiser mics made for Canon.

As the cameras got old I considered trying to "salvage" a mic too. Years ago on this forum someone helped me figure out the short pin is indeed power and 5.5 volt if I recall correctly? That was for the stereo shotgun mic from an XL1 (no switch on mic). The solution would have been to build a set up with a 9V battery and reduce it to 5.5 volts.

I am not one to coble things together so I gave up on the idea at the point. I gave that camera and two XL2s away to a friend of mine, with the mics.

Hope this helps. I'm pretty sure it was 5 or 5.5 volts.

Kind Regards,

Steve

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

You’re probably enjoying the “fuller” sound because it’s a stereo mic.

So what you’ll need is an adapter cable to send the audio into the camera and another cable with the proper battery inside an enclosure to power the mic and all of this hanging off a dslr?

Not to mention it’s not a great idea sending audio directly into a dslr. You should use an external pre amp, they sell hot shoe powered ones... Can you see what you’re getting into?

Another popular solution is to mount an audio recorder with built in stereo mics....

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Hi,

I have used an audio recorder as external mic several times, but prefer to use it for an independent recording that can be mixed with that from the camera mic.

And no, I surely don't know what I'm getting into. If my experiment with the old mic does not lead anywhere, I will probably buy an Azden SMX-30. It is very similar to my Roede but has a mono/stereo switch. It is advertized as being perfect for concert recordings and has received very good reviews. End advertisement.

Thank you for the stimulating discussion, which also helped me to find the above solution. If you have some more tips please tell me!

Helge

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

It’s not easy to fabricate a custom solution that works and isn’t unwieldy. I too like a good diy project so good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

I do not know the XL-H1 specifically.

With the original XL1 (and the L2), the stock mic received +5 vdc from the camcorder body on the 2.5 mm submini phone plug tip. The sleeve of the 2.5 mm is not connected to power ground in the mic. The dc return (ground) is provided via the 3.5mm stereo phone connecter's sleeve/ground.

The 3.5mm mini phone plug provided audio out from the mic - tip-left and ring-right. The sleeve provides both audio ground, and power ground at the camcorder body.

(The reason for this may have been to prevent shorting the 5 vdc should someone stick a pin in the 2.5mm jack.)

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Thanks a lot!

Helge

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

If you search in the Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems forums you will find several threads discussing the canon mics.

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Could this grounding issue be the reason why it does not work to connect the mic's 3.5 mm stereo connector to a DSLR camera even when power is supplied from the XL-H1A 2.5 mm plug? I arranged this experiment by using two elongation cables, one 2.5 mm and one 3.5 mm. It is a mystery to me because common mics with inbuilt power (e.g. the Videomic Pro) work as external mics for the XL-H1A when connected to the 3.5 mm jack that is used by the stock mic. In other words, the common mics work for both cameras but the stock mic only for the XL-H1A. This should exclude a difference in the audio signal or the configuration of the 3.5 mm plug as the cause of the failed experiment. Any suggestion?

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

I believe that the sleeve (commonly a ground) on the mic's 2.5 mm plug is NOT connected to the ground in the mic. It is floating. ThaThe mic's power ground is via the 3.5 mm plug sleeve along with the audio ground. The mic's 3.5 mm sleeve must connect to both the power ground and the audio rcorder ground for the mic to work and its tip and ring connect to the stereo audio hot input. The 2.5 mm plug tip connects to the +5 vdc power source.. That is the case for the XL1 and L2 mic's.

You cold probably use three fresh 1.5 volt alkaline batteries as a power source, they will put out about 4.8 volts when fresh. A cheap 3-cell flashlight body could provide a battery case.)

If the camcorder ground and the DSLR grounds are connected it likely will work, but could give you noise pickup as well.

FWIW: The XL1's stereo mic draws about 4 ma.
The old (Hi8) L2's stereo/zoom mic draws about 5 ma.

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Don,

thank you again. My power source will be an ordinary 5V powerbank for mobile phones, with either a homemade adapter from USB to a 2.5 mm jack, or a series of available adapters. But how should I physically realize the following connections: "The mic's 3.5 mm sleeve must connect to both the power ground and the audio recorder ground for the mic to work"? I suppose that the XL-H1A twin jack manages this in some way, but now the 2.5 mm and 3.5 mm plugs will connect to different devices, the powerbank and the DSLR.

Best
Helge

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

The ground of the power source must connect to the ground of the mic audio connector. It is not a difficult thing to do, and can be done at the connections at the mic since the jacks and plugs will be within an inch or so of each other.

See the attached sketch. If that is confusing, find an electronics person to help you.

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Hi Don!

Perfect. Just what I need. I understand the map, will not try to do the wiring myself, but I know several good electronics persons.

Will get back to this thread when everything is up and running!

Best

Helge

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Hi guys............

Apologies for parachuting into this thread so late, the reference to XL - H1A threw me.

Reading from scratch it seems pretty obvious the H1A on board mic is a stereo version of the XL1s mic, with an identical two pin connector.

Having upgraded from the XL1s to an XH- A1, I wanted to use the 1s mic to give me a boom pole mounted mono mic to use in conjunction with the on board fixed mic of the A1.

Q DIY project "boom mic".

If you check out the attached pics you pretty well get the gist. The box measures 7cm X 5cm X 2cm inc. lid.

It contains one toggle on/ off switch, the two input sockets, a 9 volt battery and one 78L05 100ma 5 volt power supply chip (it's minute and invisible under the input sockets).

The pole is a slightly modified decorating roller extension pole, the cable to the XH-A1 fitted with a 5 way XLR connector.

Believe it or not that is the original battery from it's build somewhere around 12 years ago!

The biggest pain of the entire project was finding input sockets with the smallest possible front mounting flanges, as you can see even the smallest "off the shelf" I could find ain't that small, the result is that the mic plug has to do "the splits" (GENTLY!) to fully insert.

The front flanges of these sockets on the camera itself are MINUTE!

It worked great and lasted till I bought a trio of Sennheisers and wireless packs which rendered it all obsolete.

I can see no reason why it would not work with a stereo mic with the appropriate wire link.

A 78L05 is one of these things:


https://components101.com/78l05-pino...lent-datasheet

Regards,


CS

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Update......................

Since writing the above I have been "dumpster diving" in my rather dusty mental archives and elicited the rather unsettling fact that some of the above is not totally correct.

I distinctly remember using this rig in Kew Gardens, London,myself as DP and my partner (Yvonne) as "boom boy". Thus it MUST originally have been used with my XL1s, NOT my XH - A1 which I only acquired a year or so AFTER we moved to NZ, which was 14 years ago.

Thus the cable must originally have been fitted with a straight mono 3.5 mm plug. I must have upgraded to a 5 pin XLR when I moved to HD with the A1.

Ergo, this must have been built about 16 years ago. It does make one wonder why that 9 volt battery hasn't dissolved into a puddle of sticky goop along with every other component in the box.

[Aside: The battery is utterly stuffed. A quick check with my DMM says it is now putting out 82 volts DC, at which point I carefully replaced the lid and buried it back in my "the good 'ol days" cupboard where all my AV stuff goes to die.]


CS

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Update appreciated, thanks, but I feel compelled to point out that my own "the good 'ol days" cupboard is chock full of dying AV stuff, and I desperately need to get rid of it all... but it's just so damn difficult to let... go...

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

FWIW: The XH-A1 did not use a powered mic similar to the XL1 or L2., and did not provide 5 vdc for an external mic. It offered XLR connectors, a built-in mic on the handle, and an external mic mount. The mic connector spacing on the XL1's mic was a bit different than the L2's.

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Dom.................

I know, which is why I built the box to drive the XL1s mike with +5 volts, which allowed it to work "off camera" with either (or any) camera, albeit with a change of connector. Using it "on camera" left me with all the inherent limitations of "on camera" sound, which is why it was designed around a boom pole, seeing as I had a willing "gofer" to do the necessary with same.

What interest me is whether Helge has seen, read and inwardly digested my post(s), seeing as how he hasn't posted in over a week.

No matter how you slice this problem, there HAS to be a box somewhere, made of SOMETHING appropriate to its placement and expected punishment, without which one of these mics simply will not work. Is it worth it? It was when I built my box.

As soon as I invested in better (?) mics and wireless packs, the entire question became moot, as cables were OUT!

So, Helge, are you still with us or have you thrown in the towel?

Regards,


CS

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Hi!

I'm still with you, sorry for this extreme delay, but there were so many other things that I HAD to do, not only wanted to do. Another reason for the delay is that when I tried the solution given by Don Palomaki, it did not seem to work properly. But believe it or not, I simply had not plugged in the 2.5 mm plug forcefully enough –*there is a narrow space where a 3.5 and a 2.5 plug must coexist. When I did it last week, it WORKED! The signal is somewhat weak, rather like the Videomic Pro set at minus 10 dB. But that setting is perfect for concert recordings, which is the intended use.

I used a prewired 3.5mm to USB connector to save work for my friend the electronics expert. The other stuff had to be done anew. If you want to replicate the work, I can send a picture of the arrangement and give more details.

Best wishes!

Helge

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Sorry, I meant a prewired 2.5mm to USB connector. /Helge

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Hi!

Here is what it looks like. The small bent wire connecting the 2.5 and 3.5 mm connectors is what does the trick (cf Don's posts).

Best, Helge

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Hi Don!
I recently reported here that the experiment was a success, but forgot to quote you. So you may not have noticed my three last posts. Again, thanks!
Helge

Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras
 

Good to hear you had success.