Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 15th, 2019, 12:52 PM   #1
New Boot
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hålanda, Sweden
Posts: 13
Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

Hi!

I always liked the inbuilt mic on my HL-H1A with its mono/stereo switch and generally good performance, and would like to use it with other cameras. But I have not been able to figure out its full specifications, especially not the wirings of the two plugs. The local Canon guy who used to know a lot about the XL series couldn't help me with this. Is there anybody out there who can?

Best

Helge (now on Panasonic GH4/GH5)
Helge Malmgren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2019, 02:49 PM   #2
Trustee
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,986
Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

Short answer: Not recommended. Buy a shotgun mic, a comparable quality one isn’t expensive. Sennheiser sells one design to mount on a dslr or get traditional xlr shotgun on a boom/stand.

Long answer: The longer plug most likely carries the audio and the short one delivers the power but it’s probably 5v instead of the standard 24/48v. So rewiring it to xlr and feed standard phantom power would likely damage it.

Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; January 16th, 2019 at 10:06 AM.
Pete Cofrancesco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2019, 08:01 AM   #3
New Boot
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hålanda, Sweden
Posts: 13
Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

Pete,

I am not after one more shotgun. As shotgun when filming birds I use a Telinga parabole with a very high quality Stereo DAT microphone. I also own a Roede Videomic Pro+ that has a shotgun-like profile. It is more easy to handle, but still of good quality and I use it for making simple music videos. The problem is that is mono only. That's why I am considering the old XL-H1A mic. I often used mine for music. If I hadn't been so impressed by its performance there, or if it had not had the mono/stereo switch, I had probably bought a stereo mic with inbuilt power (suitable for GH4/GH5).

How to fix the power supply for the XL-H1A mic in its new use should not be difficult to solve. But I badly need the wiring details!

Helge
Helge Malmgren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2019, 08:30 AM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,777
Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

Helge,

Yes the Canon XL series had good mics on them. I owned several of those cameras. I never confirmed it but they were always rumored to be Sennheiser mics made for Canon.

As the cameras got old I considered trying to "salvage" a mic too. Years ago on this forum someone helped me figure out the short pin is indeed power and 5.5 volt if I recall correctly? That was for the stereo shotgun mic from an XL1 (no switch on mic). The solution would have been to build a set up with a 9V battery and reduce it to 5.5 volts.

I am not one to coble things together so I gave up on the idea at the point. I gave that camera and two XL2s away to a friend of mine, with the mics.

Hope this helps. I'm pretty sure it was 5 or 5.5 volts.

Kind Regards,

Steve
__________________
www.CorporateShow.com
Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!
Steven Digges is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2019, 11:42 AM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,986
Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helge Malmgren View Post
Pete,

I am not after one more shotgun. As shotgun when filming birds I use a Telinga parabole with a very high quality Stereo DAT microphone. I also own a Roede Videomic Pro+ that has a shotgun-like profile. It is more easy to handle, but still of good quality and I use it for making simple music videos. The problem is that is mono only. That's why I am considering the old XL-H1A mic. I often used mine for music. If I hadn't been so impressed by its performance there, or if it had not had the mono/stereo switch, I had probably bought a stereo mic with inbuilt power (suitable for GH4/GH5).

How to fix the power supply for the XL-H1A mic in its new use should not be difficult to solve. But I badly need the wiring details!

Helge
You’re probably enjoying the “fuller” sound because it’s a stereo mic.

So what you’ll need is an adapter cable to send the audio into the camera and another cable with the proper battery inside an enclosure to power the mic and all of this hanging off a dslr?

Not to mention it’s not a great idea sending audio directly into a dslr. You should use an external pre amp, they sell hot shoe powered ones... Can you see what you’re getting into?

Another popular solution is to mount an audio recorder with built in stereo mics....
Pete Cofrancesco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2019, 01:18 PM   #6
New Boot
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hålanda, Sweden
Posts: 13
Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

Hi,

I have used an audio recorder as external mic several times, but prefer to use it for an independent recording that can be mixed with that from the camera mic.

And no, I surely don't know what I'm getting into. If my experiment with the old mic does not lead anywhere, I will probably buy an Azden SMX-30. It is very similar to my Roede but has a mono/stereo switch. It is advertized as being perfect for concert recordings and has received very good reviews. End advertisement.

Thank you for the stimulating discussion, which also helped me to find the above solution. If you have some more tips please tell me!

Helge
Helge Malmgren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2019, 01:46 PM   #7
Trustee
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,986
Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

It’s not easy to fabricate a custom solution that works and isn’t unwieldy. I too like a good diy project so good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Pete Cofrancesco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2019, 04:43 PM   #8
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,379
Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

I do not know the XL-H1 specifically.

With the original XL1 (and the L2), the stock mic received +5 vdc from the camcorder body on the 2.5 mm submini phone plug tip. The sleeve of the 2.5 mm is not connected to power ground in the mic. The dc return (ground) is provided via the 3.5mm stereo phone connecter's sleeve/ground.

The 3.5mm mini phone plug provided audio out from the mic - tip-left and ring-right. The sleeve provides both audio ground, and power ground at the camcorder body.

(The reason for this may have been to prevent shorting the 5 vdc should someone stick a pin in the 2.5mm jack.)
__________________
dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com
Don Palomaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2019, 11:14 PM   #9
New Boot
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hålanda, Sweden
Posts: 13
Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

Thanks a lot!

Helge
Helge Malmgren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2019, 01:01 PM   #10
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,379
Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

If you search in the Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems forums you will find several threads discussing the canon mics.
__________________
dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com
Don Palomaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2019, 11:05 PM   #11
New Boot
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hålanda, Sweden
Posts: 13
Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Palomaki View Post
I do not know the XL-H1 specifically.

With the original XL1 (and the L2), the stock mic received +5 vdc from the camcorder body on the 2.5 mm submini phone plug tip. The sleeve of the 2.5 mm is not connected to power ground in the mic. The dc return (ground) is provided via the 3.5mm stereo phone connecter's sleeve/ground.

The 3.5mm mini phone plug provided audio out from the mic - tip-left and ring-right. The sleeve provides both audio ground, and power ground at the camcorder body.

(The reason for this may have been to prevent shorting the 5 vdc should someone stick a pin in the 2.5mm jack.)
Could this grounding issue be the reason why it does not work to connect the mic's 3.5 mm stereo connector to a DSLR camera even when power is supplied from the XL-H1A 2.5 mm plug? I arranged this experiment by using two elongation cables, one 2.5 mm and one 3.5 mm. It is a mystery to me because common mics with inbuilt power (e.g. the Videomic Pro) work as external mics for the XL-H1A when connected to the 3.5 mm jack that is used by the stock mic. In other words, the common mics work for both cameras but the stock mic only for the XL-H1A. This should exclude a difference in the audio signal or the configuration of the 3.5 mm plug as the cause of the failed experiment. Any suggestion?
Helge Malmgren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2019, 07:39 AM   #12
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,379
Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

I believe that the sleeve (commonly a ground) on the mic's 2.5 mm plug is NOT connected to the ground in the mic. It is floating. ThaThe mic's power ground is via the 3.5 mm plug sleeve along with the audio ground. The mic's 3.5 mm sleeve must connect to both the power ground and the audio rcorder ground for the mic to work and its tip and ring connect to the stereo audio hot input. The 2.5 mm plug tip connects to the +5 vdc power source.. That is the case for the XL1 and L2 mic's.

You cold probably use three fresh 1.5 volt alkaline batteries as a power source, they will put out about 4.8 volts when fresh. A cheap 3-cell flashlight body could provide a battery case.)

If the camcorder ground and the DSLR grounds are connected it likely will work, but could give you noise pickup as well.

FWIW: The XL1's stereo mic draws about 4 ma.
The old (Hi8) L2's stereo/zoom mic draws about 5 ma.
__________________
dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

Last edited by Don Palomaki; January 27th, 2019 at 09:58 AM. Reason: add info
Don Palomaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2019, 03:46 PM   #13
New Boot
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hålanda, Sweden
Posts: 13
Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

Don,

thank you again. My power source will be an ordinary 5V powerbank for mobile phones, with either a homemade adapter from USB to a 2.5 mm jack, or a series of available adapters. But how should I physically realize the following connections: "The mic's 3.5 mm sleeve must connect to both the power ground and the audio recorder ground for the mic to work"? I suppose that the XL-H1A twin jack manages this in some way, but now the 2.5 mm and 3.5 mm plugs will connect to different devices, the powerbank and the DSLR.

Best
Helge
Helge Malmgren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2019, 05:49 PM   #14
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,379
Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

The ground of the power source must connect to the ground of the mic audio connector. It is not a difficult thing to do, and can be done at the connections at the mic since the jacks and plugs will be within an inch or so of each other.

See the attached sketch. If that is confusing, find an electronics person to help you.
Attached Thumbnails
Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras-micpower.jpg  
__________________
dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com
Don Palomaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2019, 08:57 PM   #15
New Boot
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hålanda, Sweden
Posts: 13
Re: Using XL-H1A mic with other cameras

Hi Don!

Perfect. Just what I need. I understand the map, will not try to do the wiring myself, but I know several good electronics persons.

Will get back to this thread when everything is up and running!

Best

Helge
Helge Malmgren is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:16 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2019 The Digital Video Information Network