Does the Zoom F8 have higher pre-amplification than the FR2-LE?

[Rick Reineke]

"the (FR2) gain and the fader. Could this be why you have to turn it up more, cause you are turning them?"
> Absolutely!

FYI, The Zoom F8(n) gain//trim preamp settings is in a display menu, which sets the preamp level and the ISO tracks record level (which normally is not changed once 'record' commences). The front panel hardware fader knobs are for the L-R mix tracks 9 & 10 . There is an option however to flip layout, so the hardware fader knobs control the input gain and the mix faders are menu display based. There are also separate software volume (channel) adjustments for HPs, Submix outputs 1/2 and the L-R Main outputs. The software menu display also has pan and other settings like routing, pre/post fader, limiter, ect. The channel gain/trim will have an affect on the level of all the above post preamp adjustments (like most mixers, recorders and such). There is also a "safety" tracks option, but that's another discussion.
The Mic/Line input selection is display based on the F8n.. where as, the 1st generation F8 is selected by using either an XLR for mic or a 1/4" TRS for line.
The F4 is very similar, as probably is the new 32 bit F6.

[Boyd Ostroff]

Don't know anything about your other device, but have been using a Zoom F8 for a year and I love it. Very quiet preamps (which has been mentioned in the reviews). I especially like the Zoom iOS app, which runs on both my iPhone and iPad. It gives you an 8-channel mixing board that's a lot easier to work with than those tiny knobs. Check it out if you don't already have it.

[Patrick Tracy]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

No I'm not getting hiss but I was told that turning the knob up all the way almost, is not good for the mic, if that's true.

Amplifying the signal has no effect whatsoever on the mic.

[Rick Reineke]

Right, "no effect whatsoever on the mic. " itself. A mic's self-noise.. is-what-it-is.
Basically, the preamp gain setting is based on how loud source SPL is. For instance, quiet nature sounds require a lot of preamp gain, OTOH, the opposite for a live band... Obviously the device's noise floor and the mic's self noise increases with gain, However recording with a low gain setting just lowers the apparent noise, and will just need to be brought up later, plus increasing analog circuit noise and/or digital gain noise artifacts, usually audible with low level 16 or lower bit depth recordings.
FWIW, most recording consoles and live sound mixers switch the meter to read a channel's preamp input stage in the PFL mode in additiong to feeding it directly to HPs and/or monitors (PLF normally stands for "Pre-Fader-Listen" .. OR.. "Pretty-F-ck'n-Loud", my wise-ass answer when client ask "what does PFL stand for".

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, so it's okay to turn the gain fader, almost all the way up to pick up average dialogue then?

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan why do you believe your friends? They have fed you some utter rubbish in the time you’ve been on the forum. Clearly anybody who believes microphones receive information back FROM the mixer is a blithering idiot! You really need to invoke the plonker protection feature

[Ryan Elder]

Oh none of my friends told me this, I just thought of it on my own and thought I would ask. Since I noticed that the F8 doesn't need to be turned up as high, I thought maybe something was wrong with mine.

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Oh none of my friends told me this, I just thought of it on my own

He told himself! ;-)

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

I was told that turning the knob up all the way almost, is not good for the mic,

[Pete Cofrancesco]

good god lol. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone told him about a mixer with a gain that goes to 11. For Ryan out loud.

[Ryan Elder]

Well is it questionable that I thought of it myself that maybe my mixer doesn't have enough power, if I have to turn it almost all the way up?

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan - you're making us cringe again. "doesn't have enough power????"

You're missing the irony here - up to 11 = spinal tap. Worth watching if you've never seen the movie.

Seriously though you seem very confused about preamp gain and volume. In a way video has the same issue. You have a gain knob or switch on a camera and using too much introduces noise, but you also might have ND filters to reduce light, and perhaps even more gain hidden in a menu somewhere.

In audio and video all that matters is selecting gain or attenuation appropriately. Boosting then cutting can be destructive. Not having enough and having to boost later exactly the same issue.

The first thing your mic audio hits is the preamp. There could be a 10 or 20dB attenuator for over loud sound, but you turn up the preamp enough to get a working level into the system. Preamps come in many designs and qualities. Turning up the gain too much introduces noise. Good preamps have enough noise free range for normal use - pretty well all of them. However, if your mics are distant (as in booms) or the mic is deaf - as in Shure SM7B, for example, you need to add a little more gain, and this is handled very differently by some devices. Adding this extra gain can be hiss free in good designs but rather worse and noisier in others. The point at which noise starts to creep in is always different and is not a feature of the physical knob position, or menu gain setting. X degrees on manufacture A's gain knob could be noise free but manufacturer B could be noise free right to the top - but the top might not be enough? Maybe they knew more would equate to unacceptable noise, so simply built their preamp to not go higher, and thus be considered a bit deaf. That's when those gain lifting devices - preamps with good noise figures that can be inserted between mic and your first device to give a little help to a deaf preamp.

The volume control comes after the pre-amp, and is simply volume. Noise is either there or not by this point and this is why all decent mixers have two ways to adjust level. Before and after the preamp stage. You want maximum signal and minimum noise from the preamp gain, and the following on volume adjustment just looks after the balance between input tracks. If you have a multi-input recording device or mixer, it's 2, 3 or 4 channels that can be balanced against each other by these faders - preamp gain once set, is normally left alone and usually just gives a sensible range against the next fader(s).

Mics are sending devices - what you do with their output is up to you. turning gain up or down impacts on signal to noise ratio. The mic is oblivious. The ONLY thing they receive is power to make their electronics function. Turning the gain up so it distorts and hisses cannot hurt a microphone, only your ears.

[Brian Drysdale]

If you can achieve the required level it's fine. Although, you may wish to check out the input trim settings for lower level sounds in the longer term, it's a balance with the noise.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

I can’t understand how someone who went to film school and has been making movies for this long could know so little about the basic function of a mic/mixer.

The answer to this question is similar to most of his other questions. Use proper technique and good judgment.

[Paul R Johnson]

In the UK - media studies and film studies, plus music and performing arts are currently out of favour for producing too many graduates who can't get work because the jobs assume graduates can actually do their craft on exit from education, and sadly most can't! I've had two people with me this week. One qualified and complete and one a first yr (of 3). The graduate was a liability to the extent I had to get pretty angry with him when he did stupid things, but the green one was able to think on her feet, do the job and be personable. I've already booked her for a project next year.

How can somebody graduate and not be able to put batteries in a radio mic pack properly, and then put it on a person? Worse still, we were ready to start and I heard "got no audio from the girl?". My 'graduate' had not had the courage to touch her, so had simply given her the pack and the mic, and walked away. She had no idea where to put it! He said they 'did' radio mics, but clearly actually putting them on real people had been glossed over. He actually said that for safety reasons they were not allowed to touch people! Madness!

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

If you can achieve the required level it's fine. Although, you may wish to check out the input trim settings for lower level sounds in the longer term, it's a balance with the noise.

Oh well, the trim has to be turned almost all the way up, if not all the way, for lower level sounds though, if that's what you mean.

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

I can’t understand how someone who went to film school and has been making movies for this long could know so little about the basic function of a mic/mixer.

The answer to this question is similar to most of his other questions. Use proper technique and good judgment.

Oh well I took the directing course in the film school, not the audio recording and engineering course. So I learned the audio on my own, while reading what others have to say about it as well. My judgement tells me to keep it turned up almost all the way to get the levels high enough then, cause not sure what else can be done.