Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

What do you think I mean? You may be the assistant, moving cables and cases etc

Most sound recordists do their own boom operating. That would probably be the case on all the films you've posted, if they were professional productions. Many productions don't have the budget to pay for a boom operator.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Oh okay thanks. So far I have only been one where I was the boom and another person was the PSM. It was a volunteer gig, not that I minded, I want the experience.

Well I guess if it's expected for a PSM to also be the boom operator, than I could look to do other jobs then. But even when it comes to being an assistant and moving cables, etc, it seems they do that as well, on the shoots I've been on so far.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

They only have boom operators on productions that have good sized budgets, if they don't have those where you live you either have to move or become a sound recordist.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Oh okay. Well I suppose I could concentrate more on directing my own projects then, since getting on others has been tough. It seems like every time I apply, they don't need anyone, even if it's just volunteer do be a runner just to learn, they say they don't need a runner, probably cause they want to keep crew to a minimum.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

It's even tougher to get films made if you're not using your own money.

There's a lot of competition for any job on professional productions, getting on the first rung can take years, unless you have the right connections. The runner is a paid job.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Ryan - your career path is flapping like a flag in the wind.

1. You need too be decisive - which path do you want to go down. You can not flop from one to the other as the result of an internet comment - this is plain crazy!
2. Do by all mean research, but at some point you surely MUST see that in your immediate area, with immediate colleagues and friends, what you are assuming is normal, actually isn't.
3. Your circle of people is too small, too unprofessional in makeup, to use as 'normal'. Your experience is skewed to that which we consider 'normal'.
4. You are obsessed with job titles. If we 'do sound' then forget the silly labels - we just do whatever sound is needed. If it means wavs and radio mics, that's fine. If we end up holding a boom with a recorder on our belt, that's fine too. Just different tools for a freelance sound op.

You also miss so much of the meaning in people's posts - small asides, or added bits of triviality get treated as strongly as absolute statements. You don't read people at all well, and this frankly is going to prevent you interacting properly with the team members - or at least the folk I work with, where personal interaction is critical. I realise you may have an issue with this, and reading people may be hard - but it's fine to have blinkers when you know they're on, but it causes problems if you don't notice or understand.

When people tell me I have done less well than I'd have liked, I think back, rationalise everything and then decide if I agree. Sometimes I do, other times I'm damn sure it was ME who was right and they were all wrong. I can analyse and I can evaluate. I can interpret and develop.

From all the posts you have made I have come to the conclusion that you badly want to be in the movie industry, but - and it is a big but - you lack the skills to work as a member of a team, and you lack the skills to do that work effectively. You want to gain these skills, but don't seem able to do it. You use each success or failure as a rule. Don't do this, do that - but next time, the circumstances might mean the rule is faulty.

You also can't understand irony. 'What can you do to get noticed as a boom operator?" The entire point is that you DON'T get noticed. The job just got done without fuss, or endless questions. At the moment I have 18 people working for me. The only ones I notice are those doing things wrong. Some are less skilled than I had hoped. Some are lazy. Some are fed up. The lazy and fed up ones I can do little about. The less skilled ones I have tried to help. 50% success rate. One drives me mad with endless questions. I am not here to train people, I'm here to use their skills. If I had another sound job come up after this one and I needed somebody, I know exactly who of these people I would pick up. One of the people here worked for me in the summer, impressed me, and she flew in to pick up a role on this one. I could have selected a replacement locally. Why would I do that?

Ryan - you need to think about your career goals. Are they achievable where you live, or can commute too. How do people perceive you? Useful, or tagged as "only use if nobody else is available" - that is a tag you do not want to get. Your only solution is to work for people you don't know, away from your base, making every decision yourself and see if it works.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

We seem to keep going back to the same things that should be common sense. There probably aren’t many paid gigs making movies in your area. There a small circle and word has gotten out that you’re not desirable then it will be impossible to get a job. Boom operator is primarily used in movies. If you want to make a living you should identity what video related jobs are in demand for your area. Most people will do freelance making commercials , local tv, interviews, weddings... something that there is a demand for your area. Freelance you often need to work solo. Why don’t you go to local business and pitch them on filming short promotional video for their website for a couple hundred dollars. If you get good at it you raise your rates and get higher end clients.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Oh okay. I was told by other filmmakers I worked with that I got to start taking on multiple jobs and stop trying to be a jack of all trades. They said that I should pick one specific job and stick with it. But is this just not how it's done, and you have to take on multiple jobs though maybe?

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

This is like pulling teeth. We've said over and over again that much advice you get is either wrong or misunderstood by you. You don't seem able or perhaps even willing to stick with one role from what we read from you.

If you were filming in a form, what would you say is your occupation. Film maker is NOT an option. What are you Ryan, as in you have one title. It is actually possible to be a jack of all trades, and I've swapped endlessly my entire career. My diary is full because people want me on the team because what they really want is my entire skill set which is expert at none, but very competent at most.

You need to do some real work, and soak up everything you can. Your circle of film maker friends? Are they professionals, earning a living or just enthusiasts working in 'proper' jobs? Some of their advice sounds totally strange to me - not all, but some.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

They are enthusiasts trying to break in. One has released their features to film festivals so far.

But I was told I should just stick to directing and forget other jobs, be a director and that's it, in order to follow a goal, if that advice is correct?

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

It depends if you're a good director. If not, go in another direction.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

What’s the point in specializing in something that’s not in demand and you can’t get hired for? I have a friend who does sound and specializes in corporate work mainly providing audio services for events like seminars.

Since you’re having trouble breaking into the movie industry I’m suggesting you do freelance work that you can approach a client directly and build off that. Producing 1-2 minute commercials is more manageable and you’ll get paid, instead of trying to create feature film on your own dime. I’m suggesting you specialize in low end commercials to get you started. They require many of the skills to make a movie just on a significantly smaller scale.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Yeah, I really cant see the point of working toward boom op or anything sound related unless thats your passion. Ideally you would find something, as suggested above, that helps develop the skillset for the thing you ultimately want to do.

If someone’s dream is to be a rock star they would probably tried to get paid session work, teach singing lessons, perform at weddings and corporate events in the meantime rather than trying to become a roadie.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Oh I just thought sound I prefer to do as oppose to some other jobs, and thought I would be good as a boom op. I am more passionate about sound, compared to cinematography or production design for example.

I've tried the solo videographer thing before, but I find it to be very difficult, if I am doing everything myself and just prefer to work in a team compared to doing everything myself.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

You probably have to work up to having a team by getting better clients with bigger budgets, so that you in effect become producer/director, maybe shoot or something too. That's what many folk in this biz do (not "filmmakers", but video production producers). If you can only attract clients with $300 budgets you probably can't hire anyone to assist you. If you work up to $3000, or $30000, etc. then you can. But you need a reel of competent work to attract bigger/better clients, which will come from having successful, smaller (possibly solo/one-man band) gigs.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Okay sure. Hopefully the current gig will turn out well, which is a nature corporate video. The thing I don't like doing is cinematography and I would rather leave that up to someone else, and much prefer sound, but I can try to get use to it.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

From what you're saying. you should be a sound recordist.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Yes you like doing sound more than cinematography, but do you want to do sound 15+ days a month, for the rest of your career? It would be hard to become a successful sound guy and then magically transition to a completely unrelated area, i.e. writer/director.

Knowing the answers to questions like that will tell you what you should get into as you'll know what you want to work toward.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Yep that's true. And maybe I should stick to concentrating more on directing as well then.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

I think you’d be better off working for institution like a university or a large company as some sort of media tech/aid.

All this creative cinema work sounds fun and interesting until you realize how difficult it is to do and that you’re not getting paid either. You’re either are going to succeed or reach rock bottom and then you’ll only be too glad to take one of those boring 9-5 jobs you looked down on.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Yeah sure, and that can be okay too. But I still want to advance in and become a better director overall. Just thought that since I also have a passion for audio, maybe I could use that to get on set experience too.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

I know sound people who have become documentary directors. It really depends on what you want to direct,nothing stopping you getting paid work in the sound department, while trying to get your own film off the ground. However, if you continue as a director would depend on the quality of the completed film and if this is a bucket list thing or you seriously wish have a career as a director.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Oh okay. I want to direct fictional feature films. I've helped out on other documentaries in the past, but did not like that type of filmmaking cause you do not know what people will say, whether or not in can be used in your favor, etc. I prefer scripted shoots for directing, and keep things fictional.

I would want a career as director over sound for sure.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

If you're a working director, that may not be a luxury you can afford, you have to get work where you can get it.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Yep true, I just thought I would succeed more on movies that are scripted cause that means more control. I thought if it tried to stick to products that are more controlled, that they would likely turn out better.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

This seems to go back to your copy and paste approach to film making and your difficulty with thinking on your feet. Even Kubrick, perhaps the most controlling of directors, knew when to let go and let the actors come up with lines. Just because you are in "control" doesn't mean that you're coming up with something that's any good.

Regarding the "you do not know what people will say, whether or not in can be used in your favor," this is the same as writing a script, with the latter you may think it's great but it's actually poor. The unexpected from an interviewee can be the gem you're after or they may go in another direction, how likely this is to happens will depend on your skills as a researcher and an interviewer. Also, you're are still "writing" the story and sometimes it may not be what you think it is.

Directing feature films is probably most unlikely means of earning a living due to the large gaps between productions and you need to other work to pay the bills. Many will start on TV drama (even Steven Spielberg did this), commercials, music videos and documentaries.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

The one thing I haven't worked out is where are you actually trying to go with all this? Are you hoping to end up earning a comfortable living doing something you enjoy and also having the time to build a life outside the job? Maybe you just want to be admired as a successful director/boom op/sound recordist/DP or what have you, so that your peers respect you. Maybe you are someone who just can't stick long enough at anything and will always look for the end of the rainbow.

I am a sound recordist, producer, camera operator, editor, promotion designer, PR person and photographer. I do all of those things pretty well but wouldn't consider myself an expert at any of them. My main business now is producing wedding videos for my own business which covers all of the above. My work makes my clients happy, gives me total control and gives me a comfortable living. My subject matter doesn't have a script, but is full of characters, emotion and drama, all of which are a challenge to capture well in the documentary style that I use, requiring confidence in my equipment and ability to be able to cope with constantly changing scenes and location requirements.

You need to decide where you want to go and what path you are going to take to reach it. From what I have read on these threads, you are not someone newly out of college, but are already at an age when many of those decisions should already be bearing fruit. If they are not, then you need to make up you mind what will actually work for you and forget some of the dreams.

Roger

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

I find it odd that in a topic started to explain the career push to boom op, Ryan is now talking about directing again. I wonder if he actually has a career aspiration at all? Apart from being able to say he's in movies? All these topics morph and twist crazily. I'm losing the plot here now. In a few days, he's switched again!

Tomorrow we will be thinking about being behind the camera.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Far as I can tell, he THINKS he wants to direct, maybe write, but as he keeps being told he's not ready yet or not good enough, he wants to do anything he can to get on sets, to gain experience and get back to directing, and believes booming is something he's good enough at to do so.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Ryan should be a boxer because he can rope a dope almost as good as Ali.

Many of us had said before he should concentrate on a simpler lower position than director on a professional production. I see this thread and think finally he's taking our advice. But that's when I fell for the rope a dope. He's wants to boom op so he can get on set to become a director or something like that.

He can't get a job as a director, so he tries to be a boom op, he can't get hired as a boom op, so he's going back to trying to be a director...

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Well the reason why I went back to directing, is because first I am told to find a job other than directing and do that. So now I inquire about that other job, and now people are saying why do that if I wanted to direct. Should I direct or not then? I don't mean to do a rope a dope, I just find the responses to be contradictory now, that's all.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

There is no set path, it really depends on if you wish to earn a living at directing and if you want to do that, you should be aiming at directing anything you can get and these days that includes TV programmes, documentaries etc.

From the sounds of it you haven't yet got a short film selected for any festivals, so you're trying to run (making commercial features) when you haven't yet learnt to walk.

From what you say, you're more likely to learn a living as a sound recordist than a director.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Yeah I have entered festivals but haven't gotten into any yet. But I figure if I want to try to reach a goal, I cannot let festivals determine that on short films.

I am trying to walk as much as I can and I thought getting on other people's set with a skill is the way to go, since I was told to do that by others, to see how things are done more. But eventually I feel I got to take the plunge sometime. As for trying to direct anything, I don't think TV is going to hire me until I have gotten something more out their first. I really want to stay away from documentaries though, cause I attempted one so far, and helped out on others, and you it's uncontrolled, since it's not scripted. You don't know what people are going to say, and how things will turn out in the events you are shooting, compared to a scripted story.

I would say a documentary is more difficult to make than a fictional story because of less control, so I thought I would do fiction before attempting a more challenging, documentary. I want to learn and advance of course, but I feel that fiction is the better route to do so.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

It's getting selected for festivals that's key, many more films get entered than get selected. Festivals are a means for other people to judge your quality as a film maker, especially funders, you either do that or have relatives working in the industry.

Documentaries are easy compared to feature films, with a lot less pressure and politics. You have a real limitation if you can't deal with them, remember that you're telling other people's story and if you do your research right, you will know roughly what they're going to say.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Oh okay I thought documentaries would be even more political since they are dealing with real world events and issues.

Well if I going to enter a movie that has much further chance of being selected at a festival, I think I really need to up my game, and get much better actors, and a much better DP. I was told do this for the feature I was planning on but if I do this for a short, should I spend quite a bit more money on bringing in the talent then, if that sounds better?

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

You need to up your game before even attempting a feature.

Features are also about "real world events and issues", even fairy tales are about real dark things in the real world.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Oh okay, I just thought documentaries were more political since it deals with actual real world events compared to fictional.

But even if I upped my game before a feature, and do it on a short film, I still have to up it quite a bit, so would spending quite a bit more money on it, and bringing in better talent be the right way to do then?

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Don't think of shorts as cheap thrown together productions. you don't need to spend money on film stock and lab costs, so you can put more into what's on screen. You're competing with some of the best up and coming talent. so unless you can produce a film that compares to their work and has some kind of personal stamp on it your shorts will get lost in the rush.

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Poor chef can spend huge amounts on ingredients and still burn the food. A good chef can make delicious meals from almost anything. A great chef with amazing ingredients produces the best!

Re: What can I do to get noticed as a boom operator?
 

Oh okay, so is it about me driving a DP and actors to be good, rather than hiring better ones then? I was just told my biggest problem is the acting and cinematography, so what can I do then, to improve that?