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Old November 15th, 2020, 01:38 AM   #1
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50 by 50 room, with hard walls, oh my!

So our latest concert is in a room with hard walls and concrete floors. No sound treatment at all. My first comment was "what the @#$$".

All in all not too bad. Stick around for the Beethoven in the second half. Well worth the wait.

I could not get the bassoon to sound correct. One more mic up high in front of them might have done it.

Hope you enjoy. J

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Old November 15th, 2020, 04:32 AM   #2
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Re: 50 by 50 room, with hard walls, oh my!

Hi John, thanks for posting nice work again. Yes the bassoon could have been more forward, usually depends on the amount of time you have to set up.

I was surprised by the sound and duration of the room reverb, did you add some into your mix? To me here, the soundstage is a bit left heavy, and do you feed your stereo mix to an OB truck, then out live?

Many years ago I was taught, that the worst mic. in the best position, is always better than the best mic. in the worst position.

Cheers.
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Old November 15th, 2020, 07:28 PM   #3
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Re: 50 by 50 room, with hard walls, oh my!

Hi Allan, thanks for the compliments.

That is the normal sound of that room. Its four hard walls with concrete floor and a cathedral ceiling. I was very concerned about it sounding like a giant bowl of mush. I did something I don't usually spend so much time on. I used a different HPF on each mic, tuned just below the lowest frequency of what ever instrument the mic was directed towards. I really think this help keep the room somewhat under control. The conductor was very concerned that from his viewpoint it sounded like they were in a box. With the exception on the bassoons I am pleased with the results.

Interesting you bring up the soundstage. To me it seemed like not enough left side. I was always pushing up the violins. Interestingly, there was 13 violins to the left and 4 violas to the right, plus cello and bass.

Nothing as fancy as a truck. I was positioned in the hallway right outside of the orchestra. 20 feet from the video crew. Signal travels from me to their internet based switcher and out to the world.

Perfect lesson about the mic! j
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Old November 16th, 2020, 03:26 AM   #4
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Re: 50 by 50 room, with hard walls, oh my!

Hi John, you added ‘cathedral ceiling’ above. I’d say that definitely contributed to the nice reverb delay sound I can hear.

Still sounds a bit hot left, I checked the soundstage with my 2prs. of Audio Technica cans, both sound balanced with my CD player. In the interests of trying to help, what do you monitor with? ‘Right outside of the orchestra’ Do you think you might be sitting to close to the orchestra to balance the soundstage?

Cheers.
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Old November 16th, 2020, 05:56 PM   #5
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Re: 50 by 50 room, with hard walls, oh my!

Hi Allan, In this case I monitored exclusively with my Senne 280's. Listening now to the youtube show using same headphones. I agree that the soundstage is off. I'll have to recheck my master to see if it sounds the same. Several areas that may come into play. I am literally right outside of the performance, my 280's are good but I'm sure my decisions were colored by the sound from the hall. The other concern is what happens to my mix once it leaves my cables. Hard to say what happens there.

The violin soloist sounds centered so it may well be my issue.

My next show is in a huge stone cathedral. And for the moment, I have no place to hide. Its always and adventure!

Thank you for taking the time to listen and comment. Much appreciated. j
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Old November 16th, 2020, 09:24 PM   #6
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Re: 50 by 50 room, with hard walls, oh my!

Hi John, I appreciate you canít get a set of speakers in play, and on location headphones are difficult to mix on. I found my Sennheiser 280s are brighter than my Audio Technica ATH M-50x. Read the reviews then maybe see if you can audition a set from your friendly Audio Shop. (Get the red ones mate, theyíre cool.)

Another couple of tricks I have. When youíre happy with the headphone L.R. stereo balance, reverse them R.L. for a while. Also I use a passive switchable mono jigger plugged into the headphone cable loop. Canít remember what brand it is, but every now and then I switched to mono to check anything out of phase.

After a while I first balanced in mono, then switched to stereo, that can be interesting too, but youíve gotta have the time available to do this. And as you say, then it leaves your control going out to the punters.

Actually Iím envious John, not too many guys get a classical orchestra to play with, every session is adding to your learning experience doesnít matter how much of it you have.

Cheers.
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