AT822 vs. AT825 vs. AT835ST

Doug Boze · December 31st, 2005, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Largent

With the gold dot up, my NT4 has the cartridge
facing right recording the right channel.

So mine was backwards after all. Probably okay in the southern hemisphere... <g>

To enlarge on my earlier remarks, I had used the AT825 for a few years prior to getting the Rode NT-4. On paper, the Rode seemed to offer wider frequency response, higher SPL and greater dynamic range. I'm starting to see the wisdom of "try before you buy" with such things.

I got the Rycote kit especially for the NT4, and besides, B&H had a demo unit for a good price. I also got the rare Rycote "connbox" from Lentini Communications to help isolate the cable internally.

Before I had used, with remarkable success, a home-brew shock-mount/muff. This was concocted of rings cut from 3" PVC pipe, cemented to a couple of strips cut lengthwise from the same pipe, which between them had a couple of strips of old waistband (waist-not, want-not!) sewn in such a way as to securely grip the mic while not being in much tension themselves. Over this armature I had no rigid cover, just a muff made from the exact same faux fur (crystal fox made by Tissavel) used by Rycote, as I later discovered. No zippers or inner liner.

It worked! Even in very windy places like the Columbia River gorge. However, in these extreme circumstances, the lack of a rigid shell under the cover became an issue. The wind would rap against the unsupported cover, causing pressure changes the mic couldn't ignore. A bit like being in a tent that's being buffeted. I later got a yard of faux black bear fur that's denser and thicker or deeper than the crystal fox, but haven't used it for anything.

I think I'm going to add a stiffening ring inside the Rycote zeppelin, as it's getting a bit swaybacked.

David Ennis · January 1st, 2006, 12:56 AM

Not to sound whiny or anything, but if I start a thread about a good stereo mic for outdoor use maybe that will generate discussion about indoor use? :>)

Jay Massengill · January 1st, 2006, 01:21 PM

Hey Fred, did you test your DXA-8 for an out of phase condition?
I'm still inclined to say keep working with your two AT3031's. You can adjust your angle and distance between capsules with them. With either the AT825 or the NT4 you only have one choice, coincident at 90-degrees.
One last question for Doug. Do you normally run your AT825 with the bass roll-off activated or flat? I can't remember how I had mine set the last time I used it. I did receive a bad pair of NT5's once. They are the same capsules as used in the NT4. Especially considering the opposite wiring too, I'm not sure if something was just totally wrong with Doug's NT4.
Fred, since you have the DXA-8 preamp, if you decide to get a single point mic and you will be indoors, the AT825 should work fine. With either mic you can run on internal battery if the phantom battery life of the BeachTek is an issue for a long concert and a remote location like the catwalk.
You can also order the shorter dual XLR cable from AT that's standard with the AT835ST. The standard 16-foot cable with the AT825 is usually too long for convenience.

David Ennis · January 1st, 2006, 03:36 PM

Thanks, Jay.

My Beachtek is good, and I will say that the x-y 30301s sounded pretty decent for our choir concert considering the low angle. I don't like having the mics' axes peeking over the edge of the raised stage. I visualize a mess of broken waves bouncing around in that region. I'd like to shoot in over the conductor's head from just behind him, but I'll never get an x-y pair up there. Hence the catwalk option. But if I set up an x-y pair there I'm back at about two times the width of the field I want to capture. That's where the notion of the AT835ST entered in.

For the band concert, Greg's right--it was pretty stupid not to at least sound check with phones even though I couldn't stay there. Using a spare handicam for a recorder was a last minute thing. I had planned on using the XLR jacks in the stage and then dropping short cables from the booth down to my main cam position, but for some reason I couldn't run the AT3031s through the house wiring that way (completely mute) even though I could detect the Beach's supply voltage at those stage jacks. Baffling. Maddening. I wonder if there's a polarity reversal, and if that matters. It would be a sweet, repeatable setup in the venue I "live" in if it would work.

Doug Boze · January 1st, 2006, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Massengill

One last question for Doug. Do you normally run your AT825 with the bass roll-off activated or flat? The standard 16-foot cable with the AT825 is usually too long for convenience.

Flat. Roll-off? We don't need no stinking roll-off! I also agree with the comment on the AT825's cord length. I cut it down to a couple feet and it's still too long...

Greg Bellotte · January 1st, 2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Retread

I had planned on using the XLR jacks in the stage and then dropping short cables from the booth down to my main cam position, but for some reason I couldn't run the AT3031s through the house wiring that way (completely mute) even though I could detect the Beach's supply voltage at those stage jacks. Baffling. Maddening. I wonder if there's a polarity reversal, and if that matters. It would be a sweet, repeatable setup in the venue I "live" in if it would work.

Now we are getting somewhere! I'll bet you the house cables are not wired correctly. You said you could detect the phantom power from your beachtek. If you stick the negative lead of a voltmeter in pin 1 of the XLR at the stage, you should be able to read the phantom voltage with the positive lead in pins 2 AND 3. If so, a phase reversal will not matter for mic powering puposes (big issue for stereo-but one thing at a time). If you find voltage in any other pin combinations (ex. negative on pin 2 or 3), they are not wired correctly. If you still get no sound, check to see if there is a short between pins 2 and 3-that would be a big problem for audio, but could still pass voltage. You might look into a whirlwind "Q-Box", a great little test box for troubleshooting microphone and phantom power issues.

George Ellis · January 2nd, 2006, 12:22 PM

If you want to listen to an AT835ST... All with DXA-8 and AT8202 attenuators.

64k audio in WMV - shooting a live band with the mic at the front of the stage (They use a Bose system with no master feed.)
http://versatilemediasolutions.com/Files/AllyXWeb.wmv

This was shoot indoors in a 8' mast with a tile floor -20dB attenuation (Spirit Drum and Bugle Corps camp from last year.) On Wide as the corps is 140 degrees around the mic.
http://versatilemediasolutions.com/Files/joemurphy.mp3
http://versatilemediasolutions.com/Files/jesu.mp3

This year, outside on wide. 128k wma.
http://versatilemediasolutions.com/F...005Cadence.wma

2 years ago. 64k audio. No atten, a little hiss from the Sony, on camera hotshoe mount.
http://versatilemediasolutions.com/F...ymbals2004.wmv

Just a thought, maybe one of the rental houses near you rents one? Then you could try it before you buy it?

Doug Boze · January 6th, 2006, 01:15 AM

My apologies to Fred, who was only asking about indoor miking. It was never my intent to hijack this thread. All I intended to say was that the AT825 is an excellent mic. Again, my apologies.

January 1st, 2006, 12:56 AM	#17
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	Not to sound whiny or anything, but if I start a thread about a good stereo mic for outdoor use maybe that will generate discussion about indoor use? :>) __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me Last edited by David Ennis; January 1st, 2006 at 01:29 AM.

January 1st, 2006, 03:36 PM	#19
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	Thanks, Jay. My Beachtek is good, and I will say that the x-y 30301s sounded pretty decent for our choir concert considering the low angle. I don't like having the mics' axes peeking over the edge of the raised stage. I visualize a mess of broken waves bouncing around in that region. I'd like to shoot in over the conductor's head from just behind him, but I'll never get an x-y pair up there. Hence the catwalk option. But if I set up an x-y pair there I'm back at about two times the width of the field I want to capture. That's where the notion of the AT835ST entered in. For the band concert, Greg's right--it was pretty stupid not to at least sound check with phones even though I couldn't stay there. Using a spare handicam for a recorder was a last minute thing. I had planned on using the XLR jacks in the stage and then dropping short cables from the booth down to my main cam position, but for some reason I couldn't run the AT3031s through the house wiring that way (completely mute) even though I could detect the Beach's supply voltage at those stage jacks. Baffling. Maddening. I wonder if there's a polarity reversal, and if that matters. It would be a sweet, repeatable setup in the venue I "live" in if it would work. __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

January 6th, 2006, 01:15 AM	#23
Doug Boze Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Auburn, Washington Posts: 218	My apologies to Fred, who was only asking about indoor miking. It was never my intent to hijack this thread. All I intended to say was that the AT825 is an excellent mic. Again, my apologies. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

January 1st, 2006, 01:21 PM	#18
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	Hey Fred, did you test your DXA-8 for an out of phase condition? I'm still inclined to say keep working with your two AT3031's. You can adjust your angle and distance between capsules with them. With either the AT825 or the NT4 you only have one choice, coincident at 90-degrees. One last question for Doug. Do you normally run your AT825 with the bass roll-off activated or flat? I can't remember how I had mine set the last time I used it. I did receive a bad pair of NT5's once. They are the same capsules as used in the NT4. Especially considering the opposite wiring too, I'm not sure if something was just totally wrong with Doug's NT4. Fred, since you have the DXA-8 preamp, if you decide to get a single point mic and you will be indoors, the AT825 should work fine. With either mic you can run on internal battery if the phantom battery life of the BeachTek is an issue for a long concert and a remote location like the catwalk. You can also order the shorter dual XLR cable from AT that's standard with the AT835ST. The standard 16-foot cable with the AT825 is usually too long for convenience.

January 2nd, 2006, 12:22 PM	#22
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	If you want to listen to an AT835ST... All with DXA-8 and AT8202 attenuators. 64k audio in WMV - shooting a live band with the mic at the front of the stage (They use a Bose system with no master feed.) http://versatilemediasolutions.com/Files/AllyXWeb.wmv This was shoot indoors in a 8' mast with a tile floor -20dB attenuation (Spirit Drum and Bugle Corps camp from last year.) On Wide as the corps is 140 degrees around the mic. http://versatilemediasolutions.com/Files/joemurphy.mp3 http://versatilemediasolutions.com/Files/jesu.mp3 This year, outside on wide. 128k wma. http://versatilemediasolutions.com/F...005Cadence.wma 2 years ago. 64k audio. No atten, a little hiss from the Sony, on camera hotshoe mount. http://versatilemediasolutions.com/F...ymbals2004.wmv Just a thought, maybe one of the rental houses near you rents one? Then you could try it before you buy it?