AKG Blue Line vs. ULS series
 

I am looking for a mic kit that'll do me good for both interiour and exteriour work. After having looked at a handful of mic's from a variety of companies, after having listened to mic samples on some sites i've bumped into, and after reading several tech specs, reviews and comparisons on different models, I decided to go with the AKG brand, for its flexibility (and apparent decent quality).

But I wonder: as you have two series from AKG meant to use for film, the Blue Line and ULS series, both with similar possibilities, which one of the two would be the best buy?
I'm planning to buy both the hypercardioid (for indoors) and the shotgun (for outdoors) (plus the preamp) of either system..
And since there isn't that much difference in the tech spec sheets from both, I'm particulary targetting this question to people who've had experience with one or both the series..


Thank you in advance.

There are some differences between them. The ULS capsules are true condensor capsules while the Blueline capsules are permanently charged ("electret") condensor capsules. The ULS line requires full 48v phantom power while the Blueline series can be run on lower voltages. The ULS has slightly more flexible gain/attentuation and high-pass filter settings. And as the name implies, the frequency response of the ULS is more linear - take a look at the curves of the CK61 and CK91 cardioid capsules and you'll see the CK61 is dead flat in the high end while the '91 has a couple of dB rise starting at about 5kHz. None of this means that one of the lines is necessarily "better" than the other even though they do fall into different price ranges. It just means that they will sound subtly different in different situations.

I've been using the SE300b with the ck93 hyper capsule for a few months now and have been pretty happy with it's performance. I haven't tried the ck98 shotgun capsule though.

It's worth noting that the Blueline has a figure eight capsule, although its kind of expensive. I like and use the Blueline, but plan to get the ULS eventually — the CK69 is supposed to be a way cool shotgun. Never used the Blueline shotgun capsule, but people don't seem too enthusiastic about it.

Thanks for your comments.
I decided to go with the ULS series ultimatly.
I'll let you know how it works out..

Mono recording on single channel?
 

I just got the BLue line CK 91 and CK 98 shotgun with the SE300b for Canon XH A1.

I must say it really makes huge difference between the built in mic and this system.

Question: When XLR plugged into channel 1, there is a switch allowing to record on one track or both. I wonder what does it do in praxis?

Thank you.

How do you like that shotgun? Are you able to say how it compares to the ME66, AT897 and AT4073?

yeah, i second that... would love to know how the ck98 rates to the at4073a or a mkh416?!

thanks and good luck,
Lonnie

I own 416 and blueline with hyper+shotgun caps- the blueline's shotgun is nowhere near 416 ... like, nowhere near. the blueline hyper sounds way better than the 416 in its ideal conditions, thought (ie, v close, indoors).

Yeah, I wouldn't expect the CK98 to even approach the 416. I am curious how it compares to other shotguns in its class though -- ME66, AT897, and AT4073. I'm a big fan of the CK93 cap too. Can't say enough good things about the Blueline. I was short a dynamic mic the other day and used the CK93 instead because of the inline -10 dB pad. Very handy system! One of the reasons I'm so curious about the CK98 is because of the bayonet mount. I'm doing a documentary right now and having the ability to pop that sucker on and off and switch caps could be very handy.

Hello Pavel,

If the audio on one channel flakes you have it on the other. In post, if both tracks survive and you import them together, the total audio is a little loude because it's on two tracks.

When operating without a good limiter (or mixer) it helps to set one level a bit lower. If someone screams, the louder track may distort, but hopefully the lower one won't.

Regards,

Ty Ford

thanks Kris for posting that response...
i find it interesting that under ideal situations the CK93 is just as good or better than the 416 - but i guess that's the point the pro's have been trying to drive home - use a hyper-cardoid over a shotgun if you can... makes sense.

Yeah i too like the idea of interchanging capsules with the ck98, but having a completely seperate mic sounds more advantagous right now.

I'm presently looking at a new AT4073a for $475.00 or maybe i should just wait a couple of weeks and buy a used mkh416 (under $800) on ebay...

any thoughts?

Lonnie

I'd say that you need both... a good hyper and good shotgun.

Don't take this too seriously, but here's a v quick scale, from my experience...
1=unusable crap, 10=amazing


outdoors, v little ambience, 3ft
blueline+shotgun = 7
blueline+hyper = 10
senn416 = 9

outdoors crowd ambience but 3ft from subject
blueline+shotgun = 5
blueline+hyper = 3 (needs to be closer, handheld)
senn416 = 7

outdoors crowd ambience, 4-5ft (bad situation)
blueline+shotgun = 3
blueline+hyper = 1
senn416 = 5

indoors, reflective space, mic 1-2ft
blueline+shotgun = 5
blueline+hyper = 10
senn416 = 7

indoors, not that reflective space, but mic 10-15ft
blueline+shotgun = 3
blueline+hyper = 1
senn416 = 4

as I said, don't take too seriously ...

but note that the 416 I've rated 4-8 for all .. It's never 10 (cuz shotguns are never perfect, compared to a hyper at 1ft), but it has a habit of never being 'that' bad. a good shotgun may not be amazing, but it has a habbit of doing 'okay' even in shit situations. a 'so so' shotgun is a problem, as even in it's ideal situation it isn't going to be that amazing, and in problem situations it's only going to get worse. the blueline shotgun is in this category for me, it will be better than a hyper in 'shotgun' situations, but you must understand that it's always going to be a compromise, it'll never ever sound like the hyper. The hyper, in ideal conditions, will be your best sounding mic. The hyper, however, can also be very bad. I've rated it 1-10 depending on situation, and it's very true. in a crowd, or indoors where you aren't very close, it is crap.

I just bought the AKG Bluline on Ebay recently with a 93 Hyper and a CK 98 Shotgun. Unfotunately, no documentation and I have little experience.

I'm understanding that I should use the Hyper indoor, but I thought it would be boomed about 18-24". Does it need to be closer?

The Shotgun picks up a hum when I use a long cord. It's not the mic - plugged it directly in my A1U and no hum. Is the cord NG? It is a cheap xlr cord, about 20'. Are there good cords and bad? Recommendation for good low cost xlr cord?

Finally, what are the setting on the mic Line/75/10db?

Thanks

Kris, that was amazing...

I got the picture that you were just painting broad strokes, but I appreciate the detail - this helped immensely!

Thanks again,
Lonnie

18-24" should get you good sound so long as the room isn't too reflective. Look into sound blankets. The more reflective the room, the closer you'll have to be to mask it. 6-10" should get you solid sound even in a non-ideal place. 24" is starting to get iffy. ps I'm not a sound guy, but I do one-man shoots (news, docu) regularly, so learning 'acceptable' and 'not acceptable' compromises is important. For film/cine, you need to be CLOSE. Anything else is a compromise too far.

Don't know- I'm not used to debugging such problems. Could be an impedance issue (the cam not being able to deal with bad cable or bad mic)? Try different mics and cables to narrow it down. I'm not an expert here at all.

75 is a 75Hz low-cut, helps limit boom handling noise/rumble. Always switch on when booming, or hand-holding mic. -10db pad is for when you're too close to a very loud sound source, like live music. It helps limit internal mic clipping/distortion (ie the sound getting distorted before it even arrives at your camera).

...on the se-300b module there is also the "line" switch... what does this do? (does it pass a hotter signal?)

And, my marantz pmd670 has mic/line in connectors, but, for what it's worth, the line in's are RCA, so i've never used them. My mic in's are XLR, so I use them instead. And I also leave the preamp module (se-300b) on 75hz cut, because it's always on a boom...

Any suggestions or perhaps a different setup you would recommend?

Thanks,
Lonnie

Don't know what you mean by 'line' switch, do you lean "Lin" ? This means linear ... ie. normal, not "low-cut"!

glad i asked - i assumed it meant "Line"... see what happens when a video guy messes around in the audio!

Thanks Kris, so by "Linear" or "Normal", it means no altering of the signal, just a straight shot?

Thanks again,
Lonnie

Exactly, it's just "normal", "low-cut" or "padded".... unfortunately you can't do "padding+lowcut", but this has never been an issue for me.

Thanks Kris. I too thought it meant Line.

Still wish I could figure out the hum. Only happens with the SG; not the HC. Same thing when I went through a mixer, but it comes and goes so I think it's picking up interference from something. Are shotguns more prone to that?

Paul, i got a hum once when my recorder (phantom power source too) was plugged into a wall - found out the house's wiring was screwy... Tried batteries instead- Fixed it! Since then - batteries only for audio. No more hum.

Lonnie

I notice that everyone here is talking about the Blue Line series, while the ULS is more or less never mentioned...
Is there any particular reason why you guys all have the Blue Line mic's, and not the ULS ones.. ??

Am I missing something ?

Mainly it's price - for example, at B&H the ULS series power module and CK63 hyper capsule are US$1058 while the Blueline power module and CK93 hyper capsule are US$478. Also, for those interested in M/S mic techniques, the Blueline series has a figure-8 capsule available while the ULS series does not

Also, from what I hear, the ULS is far more sensitive to handling noise... I've heard it mentioned more than once that the ULS is only really safe in the hands of pros, with decent shockmounting, etc.. which I'm sure is enough to scare away beginners and/or those wanting robust general-purpose mics which won't be overly fussy about expensive shockmounting and the need for skilled boom ops.

And, second-hand knowledge again, I hear the ULS's hyper is only a slight improvement over the blueline's hyper.. The shotguns are leagues apart, but I can see how at this point how it might not make sense to pay so much more for a 'slightly better but handling noise prone' hyper and a better shotgun... when you can get the blueline plus a separate shotgun (416 or 4073)

Thanks, didn't know about the handling noise thing..

If the hum is just isolated to the shotgun capsule and switching to the hyper capsule without changing any other variable fixes the hum, then I would look for dirt or oxide on the shotgun capsule contacts or the insulating material near the contacts.
I haven't used the Blue Line but do have the ULS and while I don't think the ULS is more prone to handling noise, I do think the handling noise you get is of a higher frequency than normal handling noise. So it's harder to roll off and sounds more noticeable. The ULS power module and capsules are very thin-walled and lightweight. I think this is what creates their particular handling noise. With a good shockmount, proper cable routing and proper technique, I don't find it to be a major problem but I can understand why it gets that reputation.

Actually I cannot really say how does it compare to other systems as I do not have enough experience nor the other gear in hand.


Why I bought the Blue Line system is for several reasons:

1) really handy fast switch the capsules on location

2) Price/performance ratio

3) Lightweight, small and cute.

4) three years warranty


I got it specifically for my personal video project about Holy men in Himalayas.

Will keep you updated how it works in real situation.

Having said that I like the shotgun it is a good compromise if you need something portable and decent quality. The pick of the sound is also good (to my ears)

The CK 91 is a little better and it sound more naturally, very clean indoor pick up. I will use it for indoor recording.


On the Canon XH A1 I have noticed a problem with the zoom servo, the mics pike up the noise of the motor. What is the best way to eliminate the zoom noise when having mic on the camera? Normally I do use zoom sparingly but just in the case...

Thanks

Pavel

Thank you Ty.


This is a good news that the mono mike can be recorded on two tracks and each track set to different volume level level.

Regarding cable length, the Canon XH A1 manual says cables over 3 meters are not recommended. I just got premium quality Audio Technica 10m cable would that have any dramatic effect on the sound?

Any suggestions?

Thank you.
Pavel

I don't think so.

Regards,

Ty

My AKG ULS C480B with the CK 63 just shipped. Still have to wait for the CK 69 though...
Can't wait to use it! :)

Thank you.

Just to clarify...

I tried to adjust the volume but do not know how. I mean I plug 1 XLR mono mike into channel 1, select CH1, CH2 and the cursor is blinking on both tracks but I cannot adjust the channels individually since only 1 mike is plugged. It seems that the channel one is duplicated without the ability to be adjusted.

Please advice.

Thank you.
Pavel

Hello Pavel,

I can only suggest that you refer to your users manual.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Pavel, I noticed you are using the Canon XH A1. When the option to copy audio channel 1 over to audio channel 2 is selected, all that happens is whatever level you've set for Ch.1 is duplicated to Ch.2, and there is no way to set a separate level for Ch.2 in this case.

By the way, this topic has been previously discussed in our Canon XH G1 / A1 forum. Hope this helps,

An XLR Y-cable will let you do this ... female to dual male (i.e. plugged into both XLR inputs on the camera). Turn phantom on for one channel.

Just received the CK69 and it's ridiculously big ! :p

Well I use that too (have the 480b + ck-69 + ck-63) its great but you can get away using only the first element. The extended tube on the ck69 makes it all long. But not heavy.

Not to forget to say: handling noise is the same on blueline or ULS. The shotgun ck-69 is way better sounding than the blueline, but for the hyper it's a close call. Love the -/+gain on the ULS though.

The CK69 is designed to be used in both configurations. It can be either a long or short shot. AKG even publishes polar graphs for both. I would think you'd use the short shot most of the time.

I have a question regarding the CK 69 mics..:

I want to get a windjammer/-shield that would fit both the long and short gun, without buying two different sets.. So I guess I would have to look at some customizable ones..!? Which one(s) do you guys use?

Any advice ? Any recomendations?
Any brands I should look for? ..cause I have totally no clue !

Thanks in advance.

I'd go with a Rycote Softie for the long configuration. That's probably the cheapest way to do it.