The artifacts may be from the debayer, but I'm not positive. I used just the bilinear setting, I regret not having enabled a better setting.

The colors in the images on my screen are pretty accurate to how the scene really looked. This filter is much better than the one I had on before. I'm still having to make some color adjustments, but this new filter requires a lot less.

Last I heard from Sumix was that they are working on a driver update. If I had some better software I would be happy to shoot and post some videos. I have been waiting for an update since July.

Hi everybody,

I'm new at the forum and I'm planning to get a Sumix-12A2C to build a system for my next projects.

I'm following your projects the last months, but I'm not sure what level of quality we could obtain yet. And the most important thing: the quality obtained will be by far better than other consumer camera of aproximate price? (HVX200...)

I think YES!, but in the practice the footage and images that I coud see make me doubt that this can be achieved...

I've got a 16mm Zeiss Super Speed lens set and an adapter to c-mount to test with the Sumix, I've read we need an IRC filter too...

What may need other hardware? (apart the PC/laptop..)


Thank you very much!

Jose from Madrid

For the price of it plus the needed extra hardware, better MOD a Scarlet from RED.

The camera is not 100% complete yet. The practice is more like development. Finding whats wrong with it and taking measures to correct. Also working with Sumix to add the features needed to make this a practical camera for filmmaking. Over the last few months the results have improved.

I'm waiting on a software update from Sumix which should come soon now. It will contain many new features and improvements.

Its hard to say what the hardware requirements will be. When I was using streampix with cineform raw codec the minimum for realtime recording was a quad core processor. They had it working on a dual core laptop but I was never able to find anything fast enough.

I hope the requirements are lower with the new software. Should have more information as soon as the new software is out.

Hi
Same here, I have arri St with many lenses, also bolex with c-mount lenses. OK it is possible via adapter to use arri mount with c-mount? I'm also planing to buy The SMX-12A2C.

I had HVX-200 but got bored with it's image quality and sold it.

I allready have mini PC working with 12 volt and 7" touchView. I used it for recording,
but mayby with prosessor update it will be possible to use with summix.

http://cameratuning.fi/mymobile_75C7961.jpg

Hi Johanes,

Arri has used a series of different mounts including the Arri PL, Arri Bayonet, and the Arri S-mount. It is possible to find an adapter for some of them, if not all.

I think the Arri St came with different mounts depending on when it was built. If your looking for the Arri Bayonet mount there are a few adapters on B&H and one at Standard C mount to Arri Bayonet Adapter but they are pretty expensive. I have not seen a c-mount adapter for PL.

I used a 12v computer similar computer to yours with the Sumix camera. It had a T7200 Core 2 Duo and a 7" LCD touch screen.
cappuccinopc.com : slimpro sp635b rohs compliant

There are some mini-itx motherboards available with support for quad core processors but I am hoping not to need one.

isn't is possible to use a 35mm adapter?

is there any relay lenses that make possible to use a 35mm adapter with the c-mount?

Hi, Daniel

here is link to list of few dual core mini-itx motherboards. I think my mini PC is not enought to sumix, so I'll have to buy some of these after I found that converter.

Core Duo / Core 2 Duo Mini-ITX boards - MP3Car.com

Johanes,

Thanks for the link.

I have been looking at this one:
Newegg.com - Intel BOXDQ45CB LGA 775 Intel Q45 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards

The price is good, only $140. This is the best I have found so far. I'm tempted to buy it now but I will wait for some news about the required system specifications. This may be overkill.

Biel,

sure you can use a 35mm adapter but the camera would still need a lens of some sort to capture the image projected onto the ground glass. I am using 35mm optics with an c-mount to Canon FD converter but the crop factor is rather large.

Hello guys,

I've ordered my SMX-12A2C camera from Sumix. The estimated shipping date is Nov. 10.

I have started to write my own controlling software. I'll keep updating here when I have something to post.

Hi guys,

Sorry for the delay. The first SMX12A2 camera Sumix sent me was not working, so I had to return it and wait for them to send me a new one. It arrived last week and I finally got my hands on it.

I've done some basic tests on the controlling software and the SDK. So far it looks very promising. I'll post samples and more info soon.

Here are some test pictures. I have not build a camera body so what I can shoot is limited to the length of the Ethernet cable. And It's difficult to get the right framing/focus because I have to go back and check on my desktop computer's screen. All three were shot with Nikon 28mm lens, 1/48 shutter speed. I did some color correction but nothing precise.

I would like to do a project with a camera like this. But with the price of the 5DII this camera needs to be higher res or lower cost.

wow those shots look great! Eric can you post the original uncorrected shot of the dog? how many steps of latitude that camera seems to have?

have you seen the patern of blue and red colors in the burned areas of the shot of the city?

has the software imporved? you said you can actually see the frame in you laptop, is this when you're shooting or when idle?

Thank you Biel,

These pictures were captured using my own application program, which I have not finished yet. I saved the uncompressed 12-bit raw data and converted them to Adobe DNG format for processing.

I think the defect you referred to happens near the blown-out pixels only, as in any other bayer-pattern based cameras. It was difficult for me to check the exposure/focus. I had to bring that one almost 2 stops down in post to get a proper view. For de-bayering I think Adobe Camera Raw's doing pretty well.

As for Sumix's controlling software, yes you can see the image while capturing now, along with other improvements. It's just that I want features like 12-bit raw, touch-screen optimized UI, synced audio recording, a more production-oriented work flow, and that I have the resources to write my own program.

For the latitude... I'm not very experienced but I'd say it's around 8 stops. It's really S/N ratio when talking about digital camera's latitude. It depends on how much noise you can accept when digging up the darker area. I'm not too happy with the noise so far but I think it's good enough if controlled well. I have some ideas that may further reduce the noise, but I'll finish the main functions first.

Here's how the uncorrected color looks like. It's desaturated and green tinted as other raw output camera like Viper or SI-2K.

Eric,

Your results look great. What is the workflow like with your software? I would love to have a chance to try it out one day.

It's nice to see you on board :)


I have been really busy with work lately and not had much time to work with the Sumix camera. I also got my hands on a 5D Mark II a while back and that has not helped.

This month I received an updated camera and new software.

Sumix has made a lot of improvements to the software. Like Eric mentioned it is now possible to see what you are recording while you record. It automatically adjusts the picture to a preview setting. Also, you no longer have to specify how many frames to record. Just hit Stop or ESC when done.

They have included a high speed shutter mode. The camera shoots at twice the framerate to reduce the rolling shutter distortion and it really makes a difference.

Finally, Sumix has included a raw workflow. It is now possible to record 10 bit raw video. The raw file output can later be loaded into a raw to avi converter where lookup tables, white balance and channels can be adjusted before baking the video to AVI. Its a lot like working with a RED camera now.

The noise has been of some concern for me too. I wonder if it has anything to do with the heat. I had it on for about 1 hour and 30 min the other day and the case got so hot that it was almost too hot to touch.

But I have seen some great results from the Altasens 3562 found here: Modula Classic HD Cam

I am confident that we can get a good clean picture.

Attached is a test shot with the new software and a picture of the camera and lens.

Fixed Pattern Noise
 

Eric,

The sensor in this camera ProCamHD3562 does not correct for FPN as in ProCamHD4562 or other Altasens sensors. Many lower cost sensors, like Micron sensors that we use in our SMX-M73 cameras also use Fixed Pattern noise smoothing. Although the FPN smoothing makes the image looks better at first glance, specially for low light conditions, it is non-reversible and removes the flexibility and control from the post processing phase. True raw is indeed without correction for FPN. FPN must not diminish the latitude (dynamic range) if corrected by calibration and look up table. Of course this is serious post processing as every sensor setting will make the FPN different.
I hope people will create post processing filters for non-linear correction of FPN, based on many example images at various senor setting for each individual sensor. The results then will be unmatched from that of those using cameras with automatic FPN correction. However if this proves to be unpractical for a large segment of our customers, then we must move on to ProCamHD4562.

Farhad

Daniel,

My targeted workflow is very simple:

1.The camera software save the uncompressed 12-bit raw data directly to .DNG sequences.

2.Import the DNG sequence into Adobe After Effects and do the one-light by adjusting the Camera Raw meta-data settings.

3.After that it's pretty much the same with any other workflow. Do 16-bit color grading and save to any standard format like QuickTime, AVI, Cineon, DPX, TIFF for further processing and editing.

The point is to preserve as much color information as possible and to be able to use existing production-proven software.


Farhad,

I think raw is good.
My understanding is that the FPN, under a given sensor setting, is an fixed "offset" value for each pixel (meaning, not caused by different sensitivity of each pixel), right? If so then if I can find the correct value for each pixel, I can get rid of it by simply subtracting it from the raw value, right? If my understanding is correct then I believe I can do it while recording instead of post processing.

The ProCamHD4562 sounds like an nice upgrade to me, though.

eric what a diference would make if you put a magenta filter infont of that green-ish raw image (kinda like the way they did for Zodiac) http://digitalcontentproducer.com/im...onworkflow.pdf

would it keep a little bit more of latitude while lossing a bit of light? does using a lookup table affects the final latitude? i don't see a change in latitude in the "dog exaple" (both raw and corrected seem to have the same latitude) but still, would it help anything?

I recorded 12-bit raw data and according to Sumix the hardware LUT doesn't have effect on 12-bit output. If LUT is applied it could have impact on the latitude instead of helping it. I don't think there's any more latitude you can gain from the sensor when you record 12-bit raw.

Green-ish color means the sensor is more sensitive to the color green than the other two, which is not necessarily a bad thing because human eyes too are more sensitive to the color green. Adding a magenta filter may gain a little more latitude on red and blue channels and lose a little F-stop. But even if the channels are balanced the color will still look very desaturated. Without proper calibration it's very difficult to get correct looking colors.

The reason for this is that the RGB channels of the electronic cameras come from the red, green, blue filters put in front of the sensor cells, but in the real world it's impossible to make the filters pure red, green, or blue. Each of the 3 channels has some mixture of the other two. It's typical to incorporate a 3x3 matrix transform to calibrate the color. Every consumer camera does that before recording or outputing.

Adobe's DNG format has the built-in capability to store the color calibration matrix as non-destructive meta data. I have come up with a calibration matrix for my SMX12A2C camera matching the color output of my Nikon D70s. I don't currently have a Macbeth color checker board so I shot some random items of various colors. here's the comparison. Please do not view this as resolution comparison of any kind. The SMX shot was not properly focused. It's for color calibration only.

so what you said is that the filter isn't actually needed but with a proper LUT you get the work done (minus the light loss of the filter)?

excuse my second post...

what i can see to that correction is that what really changes are the highlights, while the overall seems to keep all the luma is the highlighs where a change can be seen

look at the middle of the image

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...0-cmos-raw.jpg

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...0-cmos-smx.jpg

what would be the rig i would need in order to shot 3d, two laptops with lan? is there any possiblity to reduce it to one computer?

The color calibration matrix is just a way to get the color close to what human eyes see, as a clean start for further color grading. In this case it's just 9 numbers store in the DNG file and the color transformation is done when loading the files into Adobe's Camera RAW, not while recording. The recorded raw data is untouched so there's nothing lost. If you're familiar with DSLR's raw file processing then you'll see the benefit of using DNG format.

I've finished the basic functions of my own program and am building a portable camera body now.
So far it's capable of:
1920x1080 24p 12-bit uncompressed raw recording.
Realtime preview with histogram, while or while not recording.
Synchronized 2-channel 16-bit 48Khz audio recording with realtime level indicator.
Fix-pattern noise removal.
Manual shutter-speed and gain.
UI for touch-screen LCD.

Some features to be added in the future:
Realtime playback.
Other recording formats such as 1280x720 60p, 1920x1080 30p...
Focusing assistance.
...

what exaclty do you mean by that?

Eric,

What kind of hardware are you using to record that signal? Is it a raid 0 setup?

What network card are you using? Mine is giving me a bit of trouble as indicated here: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/305574/smx.MP4

We have tried a few off the shelf cards but they lead to the same result. We suspect that the < $100 network cards can not keep up with the signal.

Biel,
The SMX12A2C need a PC to run. By camera body I mean a portable PC run on batteries, that can be carried around like a normal camera. I guess a laptop would do, but I want something looks more like a camera.

Daniel,
The hardware I used for testing is
Core 2 Duo E6400
2.0G RAM
nVidia 7600GT display card
Intel PRO/1000 GT net adapter
software RAID 0 with 2x 7200rpm HDD

The 2-HDD RAID 0 is barely fast enough for 1920x1080 24p 12-bit. But I am able to record continuously about 30 seconds even with one ordinary HDD if I use most of the RAM for frame buffer. That's quite enough for most shooting.

Did you get the defected results at all frame rate settings? For me it only happened when the data rate exceed the capacity of Gigabit Ethernet. But when it happens it doesn't look quite like your result. It doesn't happen with 1920x1080 24p 12-bit setting though. I've tried 2 different net adapters, both cheap ones, with similar results.

Eric,

Thanks for the hardware list. Is this the Intel PRO/1000 GT adapter you are using? Newegg.com - Intel PWLA8391GT 10/ 100/ 1000Mbps PCI PRO/1000 GT Desktop Adapter 1 x RJ45 - Network Interface Cards

That particular video was shot with the camera set to 10bit, 75mhz and 24fps. The result really depends on the bitrate of the signal. Higher frame rates make it much worse. If that network adapter works then I will get one too.

Any progress in putting together a mobile system?

Eric,

Do you have any plans to make the software available for download or even for sale? I am very interested in recording to the raw DNG format.

Daniel,

That's exactly the same Intel card I'm using.

Thank you for the interests. My program still need a lot of work. Currently it's far from ready to be used for serious shooting. You'll have to wait until I feel confident enough about it.

I finally got the time to put together some test shots:
SMX12A2C Test Shots on Vimeo

All was shot 1920x1080 24p, shutter 1/48, 12-bit raw as DNG sequences. Lens was Nikon 28mm F2.8. No color correction other than tweaking the DNG settings. Please download the original 1080p AVI file (at bottom-right of the page). Vimeo doesn't do the camera justice IMO.

I managed to tune my program to be able to capture 1080 24p 12-bit on a Pentium M Dothan 1.6G machine. It's way too slow for running any additional features. I'll get a C2D machine when I have the money.

I still have to find solution for DC power source. The 8" LCD I ordered have not arrived, so it's still not very easy to shoot.

eric, how does the camera handle handheld shots at 1/96? when does rolling shutter appear? how does it handle a scene under the direct light of the sun and shadows?

The shutter speed won't affect the rolling shutter effect. The amount of CMOS rolling shutter effect is proportional to the interval between the scanning of the up-most line and the bottom-most line, which is a constant value with the same width/height/fps settings, and is irrelevant to exposure time(shutter speed).

SMX12A2 have a special mode that drops every other frame. The 24p I shot was really 48p with every other frame removed. This way the rolling shutter effect is half of 24p. It's still there but to my eyes it's much more acceptable.

Eric wouldn't the nvidia/intel platform "ion" be the perfect companion for the camera? or maybe it would be two much processing power? or too costly?

I have not test the 2-core Atom but I guess it won't be fast enough. Currently my software uses the CPU to do most of the work. And I don't have the resources to test all kinds of hardware. I would use a 45nm Core 2 Duo based machine, but I have to make do with my old Pentium M right now.

Interesting developments
 

Time to subscribe again to the thread.
Hi Wu, Can you outline all your equipment ? i.e. camera, PC, any capture card, monitor etc. ? Thanks!

Just ran across something interesting today. It's a Mini-ITX Intel Core 2 Duo Mobile multimedia motherboard which has integrated:

HDMI
DVI-D
YPbPr
digital audio
dual Intel Gb LAN
5 SATA & 8 USB 2.0

1 PCI (32-bit)
1 Mini PCI
1 PCI Express Mini Card

Onboard Compact Flash slot

This thing is ideal for any camera. Especially this one. It's also relatively cheap for what you get.

Logic Supply - Leaders in Mini-ITX & Small Form Factor Solutions

Hello guys,

I have built a portable PC for recording. It runs on a 12V7AH lead-acid battery inside the case, and can take external DC power source. The main specs are as following:

CPU : Pentium M Dothan 1.6G
RAM: DDR2 667 2G
HDD: Seagate 2.5" 120G x 2
monitor : 8.4" touch-screen LCD

The battery runs only about 1 hour. The HDDs can store 50 minutes of uncompressed files. I'm thinking adding a removable interface for the HDDs so I can quickly exchange them when they are full.

The original idea was to attach the whole thing together, but that would be way too heavy for my small tripod.

Getting re-interested in the SUMIX. With the release of the HPX300 I've been tryin' to decide whether to get a 5D MKII and keep my HPX170 + Letus Ultimate or to upgrade, but then I remembered the 12A2C and started huntin' for info...

It's nice to see some brand new footage pop up!

Eric, what lens are you using on the front?

Do you have more footage to post? I'm also interested in the amount of wobble/skew present when handheld.

How does the software work for frame rate and shutter angle control? I read that you recorded 48P and the 24P is coming from there, but can you record a straight 24P? How's that work?

How much did it cost to build your mini rig and where did you order the battery from?

Now that Scarlet's pretty much dead-in-the-water it's easier to look at these alternatives to see what we can get out of them. Still not ruling out the 5D MKII.

Focus wheel and roller
 

Hi Eric. What solution did you use for the focus wheel ?
I noticed the portable PC holder is a towel holder - nice touch.
Is the lens and camera support also DIY ?
Looks quite nice actually..