Static 35mm Adapter Solution

Daniel Moloko · December 26th, 2003, 12:45 PM

I got my first Job with the COLONIA35MM

the adapter i just made myself.

go to the site www.bobflash.com.br

choose the city RECIFE-PE

on the site theres a session called BOBCAM, where i go to parties and film everything.

check out the two last clips from a xmas party. i made the two with the 35mm lens, 50mm, 1.4.

it is wonderful, altought i had some problems to focus, with the light of the place, etc. im still learning. and i was drunk too, etc...anyway, tell me what you think of it.

im just waiting your review.

thanks

ciao

all static is the way.!!!!!

ciao

Taylor Moore · December 26th, 2003, 01:01 PM

Daniel Looks good. Please post pix of your setup and rig.

You BR have too much fun.

T

Daniel Moloko · December 26th, 2003, 01:05 PM

it isnt just great because of my cheap trv18...

ive said before all the setup...

look at the pic of the Colonia35mm

http://www.bobflash.com.br/franquias/recife/locais/barrozoclub/eventos/24-12-2003_3146/fotos/124170.jpg

Daniel Moloko · December 26th, 2003, 01:07 PM

http://www.bobflash.com.br/franquias/recife/locais/barrozoclub/eventos/24-12-2003_3147/fotos/124306.jpg

Louis Feng · December 26th, 2003, 01:09 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Filip Kovcin : hello there,
i can send my "filmeo" (film+video) tests today to you via taylor (with his kind permission) if you want to see it. should i send them? -->>>

You can also send it to me. I'll post it in my yahoo briefcase.

What you described is possible, I think I know the underlying optical physics. The problems with it is not the image, but the way to use it. I'll try to come up with a diagram to explain why it works.

Louis Feng · December 26th, 2003, 01:11 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Moloko : http://www.bobflash.com.br/franquias/recife/locais/barrozoclub/eventos/24-12-2003_3147/fotos/124306.jpg -->>>

Daniel, it looks good. Could you post a full resolution still image without color correction? I'd like to have a reference to compare. Thanks.

Daniel Moloko · December 26th, 2003, 01:13 PM

i cant post it on the site

i dont have where to post also

anyway, i can send you a email.

tell me yours adress...

ciao

Louis Feng · December 26th, 2003, 01:14 PM

email: coppercapt at yahoo.com

Louis Feng · December 26th, 2003, 02:50 PM

Daniel's image is up at

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lou...o+Still+Images

Jim Lafferty · December 28th, 2003, 08:38 PM

Can we see some footage, too? I've got server space -- I'm willing to lend space for files 15mb and under.

Drop me an email here: jim@ideaspora.net

- jim

Louis Feng · December 31st, 2003, 12:56 AM

I have got my prisms (roof+penta combo) from the links posted earilier. It looks like they will work. I'm working on a draft design right now and once I have it done I'll post it. But it's probably going to be something a little bit more complex. But you can strip it down or simplify it to fit your need. Actually the static version can be very simple if producing upright image is not needed, you only need a ground glass and two condenser lens to remove the hot spot problem.

Since I'm producing a physically correct 3D model, it's possible to create actual product from it. I'm planning to send it out to make a prototype in plastic.

My new material has not arrived yet, but I was told that it has a feature size of around 1 micron, comparing to the finest GG I produced at 3 micron. Plus it transmits much more light than ground glass. This sounds very promising. It should arrive any day now.

Filip Kovcin · December 31st, 2003, 01:12 PM

vendible,

i just spoked yesterday with the guy who knows optics, and he will find also 1micron GG from some russian military equipment... not bad.

did you tryed to work WITHOUT PENTAPRISM? since dove prism already inverts the image? am i correct? or in dove prism case - image is upside down AND turned left to right?

IF... dove works just upside down - you don't need prentaprism.

just dove and GG, and that's all...

i mean if you have following situation:

35mm lens -> (image upside down) ->dove (image corrected) -> GG ->camera... it means that everything should be allright... or not?

you mentioned somewhere in the thread that dove should be at least 150mm long to acheive 24x36mm frame.
BUT!!!!
film (cinema) frame is just half of that!
so, does this means that shorter dove is possible?
just a thought...

please, correct me if (or where) i'm wrong

filip

Louis Feng · December 31st, 2003, 01:43 PM

Filip,
Actually the image produced by the 35mm lens is both upside down and left-right reversed.

So the image must be both inverted up-down and reverted left-right. A dove prism only inverts the image up-down, not left-right. So you do need a way to revert the image left-right in addition to the dove prism.

Considering a roof/penta combo costs much less than a dove prism alone and without the need of additional instruments to revert the image left-right, the combo is a better choice. Another even cheaper one is the roof penta/mirror combo (the origenal method used in SLR camera), which could be even better.

Also after playing with the roof and pentaprisms, I realize although the roof prism is smaller at 28x28mm compare to the pentaprism at 24x35mm, it's possible to "see" approximitly the full frame passed from the pentaprism of 24x35mm. I know this is not very easy to understand and I was concerned before actually see it.

This more or less confirms why the roof-penta prism in SLR camera allows you to see the full image even when it has one side larger and the other side much smaller.

Honestly I don't know much about the film/cinema frame spec. I only see the standard 35mm camera produces frames of 24x36mm. What kind of lens do you use for half of that frame?

Agus Casse · December 31st, 2003, 02:53 PM

How is that you create the 3 or 1 micron GG ? Seens like here in Guatemala getting alliminun oxide is almost imposible, but still looking. Want to give this a try or o will try making a round GG just like the CD to but made from glass and with really low grain.

Louis Feng · December 31st, 2003, 03:20 PM

Agus, I found this site and it's also posted by someone else in the Homemade adapter thread. http://www.phototechmag.com/previous...kas/dokas.html

I bought the 5 micron and 3 micron aluminum oxide dust from the company mentioned in the article, Willmann-Bell, Inc. (800-825-7827). I don't know if they will ship international, but it's a good possibility.

For those want to make their GG using these dusts, you are better off buying those 1/16 inch thick glass (the thinnest I can get from a glass shop) at larger piece. I have a 6 inch rotary palm polisher for polishing cars. I use one round piece as the sander and use super glue to glue it on the polisher. With that to sand a bigger piece of about 7x7 inch. After you finish sanding it, you can cut it to fit your need.

The 1 micron material is totally different. I can't produce such thing, it's not made of glass and is less than 1mm thick.

December 26th, 2003, 12:45 PM	#46
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	No shit now, im working already I got my first Job with the COLONIA35MM the adapter i just made myself. go to the site www.bobflash.com.br choose the city RECIFE-PE on the site theres a session called BOBCAM, where i go to parties and film everything. check out the two last clips from a xmas party. i made the two with the 35mm lens, 50mm, 1.4. it is wonderful, altought i had some problems to focus, with the light of the place, etc. im still learning. and i was drunk too, etc...anyway, tell me what you think of it. im just waiting your review. thanks ciao all static is the way.!!!!! ciao

December 26th, 2003, 01:05 PM	#48
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	taylor it isnt just great because of my cheap trv18... ive said before all the setup... look at the pic of the Colonia35mm http://www.bobflash.com.br/franquias/recife/locais/barrozoclub/eventos/24-12-2003_3146/fotos/124170.jpg

December 26th, 2003, 01:07 PM	#49
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	another http://www.bobflash.com.br/franquias/recife/locais/barrozoclub/eventos/24-12-2003_3147/fotos/124306.jpg

December 26th, 2003, 01:09 PM	#50
Louis Feng Vendible Book Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 59	Re: no GG? <<<-- Originally posted by Filip Kovcin : hello there, i can send my "filmeo" (film+video) tests today to you via taylor (with his kind permission) if you want to see it. should i send them? -->>> You can also send it to me. I'll post it in my yahoo briefcase. What you described is possible, I think I know the underlying optical physics. The problems with it is not the image, but the way to use it. I'll try to come up with a diagram to explain why it works.

December 26th, 2003, 01:11 PM	#51
Louis Feng Vendible Book Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 59	Re: another <<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Moloko : http://www.bobflash.com.br/franquias/recife/locais/barrozoclub/eventos/24-12-2003_3147/fotos/124306.jpg -->>> Daniel, it looks good. Could you post a full resolution still image without color correction? I'd like to have a reference to compare. Thanks.

December 26th, 2003, 01:01 PM	#47
Taylor Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 94	Daniel Looks good. Please post pix of your setup and rig. You BR have too much fun. T

December 26th, 2003, 01:13 PM	#52
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	i cant post it i cant post it on the site i dont have where to post also anyway, i can send you a email. tell me yours adress... ciao

December 26th, 2003, 01:14 PM	#53
Louis Feng Vendible Book Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 59	email: coppercapt at yahoo.com

December 26th, 2003, 02:50 PM	#54
Louis Feng Vendible Book Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 59	Daniel's image is up at http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lou...o+Still+Images

December 28th, 2003, 08:38 PM	#55
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Can we see some footage, too? I've got server space -- I'm willing to lend space for files 15mb and under. Drop me an email here: jim@ideaspora.net - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

December 31st, 2003, 12:56 AM	#56
Louis Feng Vendible Book Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 59	I have got my prisms (roof+penta combo) from the links posted earilier. It looks like they will work. I'm working on a draft design right now and once I have it done I'll post it. But it's probably going to be something a little bit more complex. But you can strip it down or simplify it to fit your need. Actually the static version can be very simple if producing upright image is not needed, you only need a ground glass and two condenser lens to remove the hot spot problem. Since I'm producing a physically correct 3D model, it's possible to create actual product from it. I'm planning to send it out to make a prototype in plastic. My new material has not arrived yet, but I was told that it has a feature size of around 1 micron, comparing to the finest GG I produced at 3 micron. Plus it transmits much more light than ground glass. This sounds very promising. It should arrive any day now.

December 31st, 2003, 01:12 PM	#57
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	1 micron and dove prism vendible, i just spoked yesterday with the guy who knows optics, and he will find also 1micron GG from some russian military equipment... not bad. did you tryed to work WITHOUT PENTAPRISM? since dove prism already inverts the image? am i correct? or in dove prism case - image is upside down AND turned left to right? IF... dove works just upside down - you don't need prentaprism. just dove and GG, and that's all... i mean if you have following situation: 35mm lens -> (image upside down) ->dove (image corrected) -> GG ->camera... it means that everything should be allright... or not? you mentioned somewhere in the thread that dove should be at least 150mm long to acheive 24x36mm frame. BUT!!!! film (cinema) frame is just half of that! so, does this means that shorter dove is possible? just a thought... please, correct me if (or where) i'm wrong filip

December 31st, 2003, 01:43 PM	#58
Louis Feng Vendible Book Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 59	Filip, Actually the image produced by the 35mm lens is both upside down and left-right reversed. So the image must be both inverted up-down and reverted left-right. A dove prism only inverts the image up-down, not left-right. So you do need a way to revert the image left-right in addition to the dove prism. Considering a roof/penta combo costs much less than a dove prism alone and without the need of additional instruments to revert the image left-right, the combo is a better choice. Another even cheaper one is the roof penta/mirror combo (the origenal method used in SLR camera), which could be even better. Also after playing with the roof and pentaprisms, I realize although the roof prism is smaller at 28x28mm compare to the pentaprism at 24x35mm, it's possible to "see" approximitly the full frame passed from the pentaprism of 24x35mm. I know this is not very easy to understand and I was concerned before actually see it. This more or less confirms why the roof-penta prism in SLR camera allows you to see the full image even when it has one side larger and the other side much smaller. Honestly I don't know much about the film/cinema frame spec. I only see the standard 35mm camera produces frames of 24x36mm. What kind of lens do you use for half of that frame?

December 31st, 2003, 02:53 PM	#59
Agus Casse Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Guatemala Posts: 322	How is that you create the 3 or 1 micron GG ? Seens like here in Guatemala getting alliminun oxide is almost imposible, but still looking. Want to give this a try or o will try making a round GG just like the CD to but made from glass and with really low grain. __________________ Agus35 - the ultimate tool for indie DV filmakers -

December 31st, 2003, 03:20 PM	#60
Louis Feng Vendible Book Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 59	Agus, I found this site and it's also posted by someone else in the Homemade adapter thread. http://www.phototechmag.com/previous...kas/dokas.html I bought the 5 micron and 3 micron aluminum oxide dust from the company mentioned in the article, Willmann-Bell, Inc. (800-825-7827). I don't know if they will ship international, but it's a good possibility. For those want to make their GG using these dusts, you are better off buying those 1/16 inch thick glass (the thinnest I can get from a glass shop) at larger piece. I have a 6 inch rotary palm polisher for polishing cars. I use one round piece as the sander and use super glue to glue it on the polisher. With that to sand a bigger piece of about 7x7 inch. After you finish sanding it, you can cut it to fit your need. The 1 micron material is totally different. I can't produce such thing, it's not made of glass and is less than 1mm thick.