The Devil's Grid
 

"once you have seen The Devil's Grid, you are blighted for life"

I am referring to the grid of resolution 8x8 pixels, which imprints itself onto the footage (like a watermark) whenever Bokeh is around.

Try this, with a DV camcorder walk about the back garden with your camera out of focus (this is pure Bokeh). Then play the footage back on your TV straight out of the camcorder. It is more visible on a TV rather than a PC monitor for some reason

All I can say is that I can see the grid, maybe some cant but with practice you will, and then you will always know what to look for.

John,
There was a slight misunderstanding. What is playing back straight form a camcorder on TV got to do with what I have done? I do not have a garden, so I will skip this test, but I saw the FX full well. It is nothing but terrifying. But that is not the best out of mini DV. That is the reason I burned a DVD with footage straight from camcorder and also with the image converter. To SEE how good DV can be, and is OK.

Dan is it okay if I reveal how you plan on doing selective focus DOF for wide lenses or do you prefer to keep it secret because you might market it? It's scary but we think technically alike. Back in the day I tinkered with this exact technique and it works but decided it wasnt worth the effort. I'd love to see someone else follow thru with it though. In fact now that I think about it I know they have setups already for this these days but its designed for full sized motion picture cameras so yeah make one for DV.

While I'm on the subject of crazy ideas your focus assist device (very nice btw) reminds me of a 3D camera system I thought up. It would allow two cameras to either pigeon toe in with its relation ship with the focus of the lens. This would give a more accurate 3D effect because they would be working exactly like our own eyes do. Or I had a idea for a similar device and use it to create a special fx in 3D by having the two cameras pigeon toe AND/OR push in or away from each other to create a very strange 3D effect that hard to explain. Basically it appears as if the 3D effect has been exagerated and things can be stretched to pop out at the audience. This could be done at any time for dramatic reasons. Anyways its nice to see I'm not the only one thats crazy enough to tinker with this. Heres to being just a tad bit obsessed (or was it insane...I forget)

Charles-
I didnt know anyone had done the iris/shutter angle cross pull yet. I've been begging to find a script that called for it because I thought the two hadnt been used in this way yet but apparently it has. Oh well. I'd love to see the film you saw it done in.

As it happens, last night I saw the movie "the final cut" with Robin Williams. To my astonishment I saw the beginning credits with this very effect. I shook my head in disbelief. I'm "on the ball" but late? (or ahead? thinking life action?) It is true, it was not life action, but the point is the "idea" of having all the credits sharp and then going soft from one end to the other as going away from the screen......... This is the "collective consciousness" at work my friends. We all "tap in" the same pool of ideas at one point or another, but some are ahead (way ahead) and take a big credit (Leonardo, Tesla...)and others a bit behind. I have nothing but admiration, but is right? This is only the result of "high interest" in one field, focused attention and TIME available and devoted exclusively to a task. I see that every day at work here on this board and I saw it in other fields as well (computer cooling, hobbies etc) Oh well.....
Bottom line Brett, you do not have to "blow my cover", I can do that myself just as well (or better;-)< )....lol.....
Actually from the explicit shoots, is not that hard to figure that the focal plane would not be squared to the lens anymore but in an angle, having only a "slice" at the right distance from the lens with "ahead" and "behind" going soft. To achieve "that" "in take" is a bit more complicated. Easier said than done. Actually thinking of it, I can see EVERY ONE testing a static converter FIGHTING THIS VERY EFFECT to achieve the square ness of the GG.......
I did again some tests (this time aiming for it) and the "vision" was confirmed (no, the shaky was not there). Nice or no... a matter of taste. A lot of applications? Who knows? I actually have a shot like that (that may have triggered the late thought)done with the system I made last August and in which the screen (although plane movement) was not perfectly squared to the lens. Nice? Is relative but I could post the clip. All the time? No way. Is suffocating to seek sharp. Gentile swing in and out.... well.. that would be very nice but a lot of work...
The "squishy" lens of Clairmont was used on a movie (I do not know of the second) Once the effect is "done with" in one flick, one may not seem original to use it again....
One exception is time freeze (matrix) Is too nice to go away.....

>>>>>reminds me of a 3D camera system I thought up........<<<<
It is only common sense the thought you had.
I was shocked to "feel" how "disturbing is" to see the binoculars NOT going inwards as you change focus (same thing for about the same application) Again, precision mechanics to converge the lens all together maybe 2 degrees? No wonder they did not bother yet.
List is long and sooner or later (when they are done) we will all wonder what "took THEM so long to figure it out" for it only makes sense.....

Sane or insane... who is to define and then who to draw the line? Is there a line (or just a soft focus) or is it just me looking for my glasses.....

Hi Dan,

" is not that hard to figure that the focal plane would not be squared to the lens anymore but in an angle, having only a "slice" at the right distance from the lens with "ahead" and "behind" going soft"

Tried that! :) As you tilt the GG, it goes out of the focal plane of the 35mm lens but also outside the focal distance of the camcorder (I might confuse some terms here, but I hope you understant what I mean). The think is that one side of the image is more out of focus than the other... It must be something with the backfocus (the 355mm lens) or the focus of the camcorder... (I have a feeling that this could be use to properly adjust the backfocus and the camcorder focus - tilting the GG on an axis going throu the midle... - stupid idea, ha? :) ).
Anyway, tilt the GG (up/down) and then the camcorder (left/right) but framing the same rectangle. You will now have just a spot (not a "slice") in focus. :)

You can also tilt the GG both ways, of course... you should get that spot in focus...

Cosmin, thanks for taking it to the next level (both x & Y) but as you say, it would become a spot only IF that would be a static shoot.
But what IF we turn on X from Bokeh-sharp-Bokeh to sharp-all-over and then START the Y turn from where we were ;sharp-all-over to Bokeh-sharp-Bokeh on the vertical?
Further more, what if the inflexion was not centered (on any of the X or Y?) Or, like I said before focus on the lens rolls in sink with the tilting on any of the X or Y to maintain focus on one element as it changes position in the frame? Think "all that" was done in ONE CONTINUOUS SHOOT? Surprise? You pet ;-)< (should I stop writing the way I talk?)
But that would require no more than 6 tiny motors to move the "whole works" on 3 axes...
way to go Dan.... spend a year to do it right and another year to s....it-up.....way to go.. .

"what if the inflexion was not centered " Of course. I never thought it would be centered.. what would be the use for that?! (when I said it would be centered I talked about the "focus/backfocus check" stuff - I'm to lazy to think about it)

I can't see the use for 6motors. There are three axis but I can only fit 3 motors in there. Or two motors (for X & Y) and an linear actuator to move the GG back and forth. We're talking steppers+microcontrolers (or maybe brushless DCs with feedback...), software... "motion controled GG" :)

Good luck with that Dan! :)

>>>I can't see the use for 6motors.<<<<
You can't but I can (sink harder!)
>>>Good luck with that Dan<<<
good luck yourself cuz I aint gonna do it. I may seem cuckoo at times but I am not (is it not what they all say?....;-)< hehehe...

"good luck yourself cuz I aint gonna do it"

let me finish my drink...


:)

How do they do the OIS prism to move...?



(I'm cracking you down, ain't I? :) )

>>How do they do the OIS prism to move...?<<<<
how would I know?....... (i guess is de fly....)
(I'm cracking you down, ain't I? :) )<<<
you pet you do.......)))))
leave that aside..... I have the solution to focus ring gear for any lens..... (brand or diameter) had a dream three days ago but I had o finish it and make sure it works and now is anodized, packed and labeled good for shipping, (in my head of course) it'll come... (it does not look at all like the pics on my site though) hmmm... did I mention a new FF?

"I have the solution to focus ring gear for any lens"
you're talking about the FF, right? Not the gears on the lens. So the gears on the lens are different diameters and you can drive them all with one FF? Can I take a wild guess? :)

b my guest

:)

aaa... may I ask you: is there a "setting" or will it work right on? Nothing gets changed?

ok, ok, you caught me! I have no ideea! :)

ask the... spider.... ;-)<

Yeah Dan thats what I did. Just tilt the GG. Now you can also move it in and out to place that slice area that is in focus anywhere on the GG and not just in the middle. Anyways this goes back to the earliest years of photography up until today with the MF & LF bellows cameras. I believe you want to make one of these:

This is the one for full sized motion picture cameras
http://www.centuryoptics.com/products/film/swing-shift/index.htm

Anyways its all cool stuff but rarely used and extremely time consuming to make. A rental item for sure. I see this effect in nearly every over dramatic drug commercial. (You see it too?)

Hey I can tell you one easy way to optically get only a center spot in focus on even a fish eye lens. > When you make one of these adapters make it possible to reposition the video cameras lens alot closer to the GG. Zoom out to wide angle on the video camera and reframe properly for a full frame view of the GG again. You'll notice that the DOF of the video cameras lens on the GG itself is SO shallow that only sections of the GG are in focus at any give time. Thats it. Pretty simple. The only minor problem with this idea is at fully wide on the video cameras lens your GG looks the slightest bit distorted (as all things do with wide lenses). However its no big deal because this subtle effect can be well hidden in the distortions present in the films wide angle lens itself anyways. Anyways hope that good enough for what you want to do and saves you from investing another 6 months of your life on a swing/tilt mini35. Hell you can take this project as far as you want to. Throw a anamorphic element in there as well or add a small rotateable gradual ND disk behind the lens mount to dial in the exact f/stop you want no matter what the lighting conditions. Or use it WITH the iris and do a iris/adjustable ND cross pull to have a incamera DOF change during a shot without having the negative effects of the shutter angle change. Toys toys toys. Its fun to think about the possibilities but the appeal of having a actual life keeps me from building all these specialty items. I'll have to at least check out that movie you mentioned though. It was used only on the opening titles?

There are some lenses (rare) made by Nikon and others that do that natively:
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hartblei.com/products/images/shift_lens/fullsize/TS-PC-45-S-R-(tilt-shift).jpg&imgrefurl=http://andybatt.blogspot.com/2004_06_14_andybatt_archive.html&h=600&w=642&sz=17&tbnid=a7d2NW5RV18J:&tbnh=126&tbnw=135&start=12&pr ev=/images%3Fq%3Dtilt%2Blens%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official_s%26sa%3DG

But is not the same thing. Just about but not the same.
I guess one could combine focus roll (on the lens) with perspective CTRL (for the shots I imagined)
Not of interest here anyway...
>>>(You see it too?)<<< Sorry to confess here but it has been a good while since I watched TV. (a movie now and then is OK though)
>>>Throw a anamorphic element in there<<< I did! (Century) not very appealing. To de ana... you have to stretch the pixels on the horizontal.... rez loss just to fill a wider screen (way better than cropping top and bottom though)
Yes, opening titles only.
How did "Matthew" go?

Happy "Good Friday" guys. (I just had one of my prayers answered today)

Yeah that was a fun shoot - The story of the Last Supper. Believe it or not I actually had my camera bless on that shoot. Everyone -crew and cast came together on that one. I made some custom gear for that film that you might find interesting. I knew I wanted to make a lot of very small dolly moves but the shooting schedule didnt allow for the time it would require to reposition and setup track and dolly every 5 minutes so I built what is best discribed as a miniture dolly for the camera only that fit on a 5 foot long miniature track. These two items were light weight but sturdy enough to be attached to the TOP of a tripod. Sound strange, I know, but actualy it was very useful. It let me do a new dolly setups in as much time as it normally would take to walk a tripod across the set. The lighting setup was also very odd but I think I've talked off subject long enough. Email me if you want to chat. See ya

What the heck is this thing supposed to do exactly?

Move the GG in an angle in X,Y,Z as opposed to square only, relative to the SLR lens, thus allowing only a "slice" of sharp image for elements placed at the same distance to the lens (during a take that is) to be seen from a full sharp frame.

Young Blades
 

This is somewhat off topic, but I was flipping through the channels on the Tv the other night and happened across the Young Blades show that your clips were from. I wasn't fimiliar with the show before then.

By the way I haven't posted on your thread before, but just to let you know your footage is really impressive and it seems like the unit is really well put together.

On a side note I was looking through some of the old clips and whatnot and then the later ones from Young Blades. You mentioned that the slight noise heard in some of the later clips was from the adapter itself correct? I was just curious if there was a change in the design to cause the noise because in the one clip before you had the adapter right on the mic's windscreen and it was silent? Just curious. Either way as you said in an actual shooting situation you'd more than likely be booming the mic anyway so that wouldn't even be a factor.

Thanks for checking it out. Looks like this clip is still on line:
(in case you missed it)
http://rapidshare.de/files/903215/web_demo.avi.html
(same show) Glad you like it. About converter:
It is as quiet as I could make it, but:
1. I have no lens between GG and camcorder's lens (since I do not need any) so it is an "open area"
2. The mic on GS200 is right there at the 'source" and picks up first THAT noise and whatever else available;
3. Since THAT noise is the nearest and the sound circuit has an attenuator, all other sounds are dimmed.
4. The sound is 'amplified" by the small tube I use to isolate the outer light.
I will shoot this weekend (a friend's wedding) using the external mic.
If OK, I'll post some clips.

I'd love to see some clips, Dan!

I had to extract the two mics from GS200 and build an external support and plug. Now it is mounted just above the lens (picking up the focus roll;-)< but for the purpose is OK) Another XLR extension will follow to allow for boom mic. The surgery took some 14h; both patient and surgeon survived the intervention. If anyone will need to do the same, be extra careful when de soldering the mics. They are very sensitive to heat and soldered on a very small soft circuit layer(I ruined one before from a small CMOS). But at least, the whole contraption has the looks of all similar cameras with this feature and the small noise from movement is "gone with the wind".

I have shoot today over 40' of footage using all Nikkors from 25 to 200. I can only export AVI files of max 30 M (on that German site) Uncompressed footage means about 7 seconds each. What would you like to see? City day? City night? Portrait? Landscape? I do not know how many clips I can upload per day. Other suggestions?.... (I am taking orders here.....) More footage on the way, but please, be gentle; is raining here.... (I can enjoy a break from lathe work and other screwy details...)

Dan, you could at least make it MPEG2 at 8000kbps. Withno audio you will have about 30seconds on 30MB. Or you could do it DivX at a high bit rate..
mini35 & movietube DVDs are also compressed (mpeg2, probably at no more than 8000kbps) and no one seems to complain about it...

Thank you Cosmin,
I'll attempt the DivX conversion from AVI and see what time frame 30M allows.I do not know yet if rapidshare.de accepts DivX files but I,ll try

It is still an avi file...
I recomand you DrDivX for coding DivX avis. Is as easy as choosing a "high quality" profile and hit "encode". Well... almost! I could help you encode the files, if you want.

Thanks again, I have got some more footage meanwhile. I will start sorting out the "mess" this afternoon and (hopefully) post some of it (since you are the only one that expressed interest, I'll email you the link)

<<<-- Originally posted by Dan Diaconu : Thanks again, I have got some more footage meanwhile. I will start sorting out the "mess" this afternoon and (hopefully) post some of it (since you are the only one that expressed interest, I'll email you the link) -->>>

Hey Dan,

I was talking with a director who does music videos and he uses a "rack and tilt" lens to get a similar focus effect to what you're talking about. I hope I didn't get the name wrong, I'm going from memory. He shoots all Arri 35mm and many of his effects are in camera including that one.

It is a very cool look for getting parts of the screen in focus despite being at different distances from the camera. Definitely opened my eyes to new possibilities. Anyway - that's another validation of the idea.

I'm pretty sure people can see the effect on Good Charlotte's "Predictable" video.

Thank you Joel.
>>It is a very cool look for getting parts of the screen in focus despite being at different distances from the camera<<
What I was after is : getting sharp ONLY A SECTION of something that IS AT THE SAME DISTANCE FROM THE LENS and be able to "roll that focus" (all subject being at the same distance) from L to R of the frame (while dollying meanwhile or not) I may have made the first example too complicated to visualize, but it would be cool.....(der goes another 6 months)

Some of the few people that saw the last demo clip suggested I should let all the readers know as well. It is not a music video, OK? Is just converter demo shoots with some BG music. Good or bad, here it is:
http://rapidshare.de/files/1177822/last_for_web.wmv.html
Focus in one of the last shoots is rough. The tripod was on grass (soft soil) and extended all the way. I did not use the FF, besides going from one end to the other on 200mm. No excuses, just facts (but it is rough though). Pass or fail, Obin?
I also got yesterday the CU lens I needed to complete testing on PD, DVX and Z1. (no water guns today... Sarena!)*smile*

looking great! And a great tune that is!

thank you, (my son's improvisations...)

that was nice Dan. i actually like winter shots shot in that candid way.

except when you use the focus the camera shook. very noticable.

Thank you Frank,
Sorry guys, I meant to say this link:

http://dl2.rapidshare.de/files/1182068/166/last_for_web.avi

There are some strange artifacts still (although AVI file)
I am still learning about compression and file export.... It did not play sound here... (although is there) ....

Although only 3Mb (for 80 seconds) this one looks better:
http://rapidshare.de/files/1176958/Premiere.rm.html
one-a-diz-daiz I'll find the 27Mb one I was looking for ....s-got-a-be here somwhere....

http://rapidshare.de/files/1228767/beauty_shoot.avi.html


http://rapidshare.de/files/1230175/BSHOOT4.avi.html


http://rapidshare.de/files/1230020/bshoot2.avi.html

http://rapidshare.de/files/1230281/bshoot3.avi.html
.

http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/ALL-CLIP-TESTS/IMGA0516
http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/ALL-CLIP-TESTS/IMGA0517
How is this Obin? OK? Left side is bit soft (I think camera was not squared to the chart, not much but enugh to show)

Dan,
I looked at "beauty_shoot.avi " and saw a lot of block-grid artifacts. I'm sure this is due to your render and not the adapter. You really should look into compressing with a modern codec, like media9 , at say 9 megabits/sec . You will get a bit more than 7 seconds out of 30 megabytes as a bonus too !

-Les