1x 35mm 2x DV project
 

I've started a new tread, so people who haven't read the other one can follow my intentions quickly.

I'm making a 35mm adapter where the image projected on the ground glass is split in left and right and filmed by two identical DV cameras.
So far it’s working great, the image gives a double amount of resolution 720 x 1040 and is synched by starting and stopping with one remote.

Here's a picture of the adapter so far (from top view):
http://s01.picshome.com/52a/doublecam.jpg

Here is a quick test which I only made for synch testing so it's compressed much.

http://www.degalerie.nl/1/test4b.wmv

now THAT is amazing...I would never try to do what your doing but I think it's GREAT!

I've made test on the blending of the images and focusing with the 35mm lens:

http://www.degalerie.nl/1/test6a.wmv

Thanks for the compliment Obin, I'd definitely never try to do what you’re doing.

That looks incredible. Is it hard to sync the images back up?

No, I just found out that these (sony) camcorders not only start at the same time with one remote (which I will build onto the camera), but also stop on the exact same frame. So you can shoot a whole sequence of footage and just synch the first frames together, the following takes will be in place too.

The best thing will be capture software that drops all frames that contain no images, so you only need to put the footage on the timeline of an editing program.

very cool

Almost done, I need to make a shoulder support because it's becoming a heavy monster. The tests are really coming close to HDV. I'm still testing 720 x 1040 size, but I'll start on a anamorphic lens as soon as Aaron Shaw makes some curve calculations for me.

Sorry I haven't gotten to your request ocar. I'll send you an email to discuss the details some more.

EDIT: Oy, your email isn't online (at this site anyway!) - feel free to send me an email.

Oscar,
The test looks very "rich" in color (not over saturated, but rich) I like that. I also like that the sky is not washed out while detail is visible in the dark areas. Could you tighten up the frame a touch so you can get rid of the vigneting?
Also, what lens did you use? Looks like a 2.8/35 or 1.4-1.8/50. Is this right? Where was the focus on the BG (at the beginning)
Was it on the red roof? The other high roof on the right seems soft. The overall pic seems soft. Was that focus or "look" from the GG? Anyway, the picture looks very good (rich). If you sort it out (sharpness wise) to take advantage of all the info you capture, would be fantastic.
Hmmmm....
Could it be a slight misalignment between the two cameras (when framing)? (or zoom? even if set to say... wide on both, there might be a tiny dif from the factory....??????)
Anyway, looks goooooood.
Keep it up!!!!!!!!!!!

I've adjusted the placement of the GG after this test, I think it wasn't set right to focus sharp over a 20 meters.
I have to zoom in some more to avoid the vigneting, your right.

Aaron, only if you have time of course, but here's my e-mail:
lijsten@degalerie.nl

Where is the mirror exactly? It is really hard to tell from the picture where you are reflecting from - any other pics up yet?

Also, to get close to HD, what do you have to do in the editing suite? How do you combine the two separate footages together?

BTW, amazing ingenuity!

Here is the drawing I made before building it:
http://s01.picshome.com/52a/double35mmadapter.jpg

It's from top view. I moved the mirror and cameras a little further away from the GG to get more overlap between the footages.
I put the two films in a post software (like after effects) in a 1040 x 720 pixel setup and synch them.
Both films need to rotate 90° (because the cameras are on their sides) and one has to flip (mirror)
Than I align them (it's best to film a grid or something one time) and make a mask that fades the films on the overlapping area.

It's good after 30 minutes of adjusting, to align it exactly right takes longer but if the cameras and settings are left the same (not taken out of the adapter), the settings in the software will also stay the same.

Yep Oscar, That is what I thought. I really couldn't get my head around how else you had done it, but that seems like the one that would work.

How do you line up the shots exactly? That must be painstaking! The only thing I could suggest is having place markers on either side of a shot - like goal posts - so you can line up the second and first camera left to right. The same goes for top to bottom, but I am guessing you have already figured out how to do that!

Excellent job.

The cameras are adjustable in the adapter, but they can be little bit off. In the composition software you have to size, rotate and move up and down one of the shots, until the overlapping area is exactly the same. I'll do some tests by filming a pattern (like a grid) and try to match that.
On footage with a non moving camera, you really won't see anything, but when you pan, it's like a raindrop has run in the middle of the lens if the shots aren't lined up well.

Hey Oscar,

I just realised something too! The camera that is perpendicular to the GG using the mirror, the image will not be reversed! If you could set up a monitor to that one, your shots will be exactly the way they should be!

One shot only, because one camera shoots right past the mirror. So you only get half the frame (the right one)
I tried to put a mirror at a spot so it'll reflect the LCD of the non flipped camera and assemble the two images, but it doesn't work.
I've made a separate viewfinder that shows an image with no DOF at all (more like a telescope)
I probably don't mind using the old technique used for movie cameras, measure the distance from the lens to the subject and pull the focus to that number on the ring of the lens. In fact, it's more precise than your eye.
Maybe I'll put a laser measure on the camera.

So, here's the progress. Mostly on the housing, but I’ve also done the microphone plugs, four jacks for the two stereo channels on the DV camcorders. Maybe I'll use them for surround sound, but maybe I'll just use it for a well balanced stereo mix.

And I've put the remote on to the housing (connected to the batteries of the GG motor, and extended the infrared thing and placed it between the cameras.)


http://s01.picshome.com/52a/2.jpg

http://s01.picshome.com/52a/3.jpg

http://s01.picshome.com/52a/4.jpg

'
New test shots were good, only I'm not posting them, because one of the cameras was not focused well.
I'm amazed that the grain looks very natural and film like, in stead of the color noise the DV normally gives.

That is very exciting Oscar.
I can't wait to see some stills from the combined footage.
Looks good so far.
What program do you use to combine the images?

All I can think of is using 2 HDV cams!

How about 3 HDV cams with two mirrors, but I can't afford it.

I'm now using After Effects at a friend of mine, but other software in which you can size, flip, rotate and blend edges of the footage should be fine I think.

Oscar,
When you say "blend edges" you mean as a permanent "half dissolve"? Is this the blending?

Oscar, looks great! I love the way you are very open about showing what you are doing - a true visionary!

How is the Spinning CD working for you? HAve you gone with your own home-made GG cd or just the factory one? Are you getting any wobbling or light dispersement when it is running?

Dan, I think a permanent "half dissolve" is the right term yes, an area in the middle where the two images need to have an overlap that fades to the left or to the right (depending on which side is on top). I'll post a next test with and without the fading (so one with a hard edge)

Mandy, the GG is not a final version, but gives neither wobbling nor a light flickering. I just polished a CD until all the silver coating comes of. Than I glued (with a glue spray) a slice of 'smooth tracing paper' or 'calque' onto the CD. It works very well, but has some more light loss than other options.

I had to change the CD motor once for a more stable one. Also, try a higher or lower voltage, because at some point, the spinning rate conflicts with the shutter speed of the camera (or try another setting on your camera)

OK, here's another test. With this footage I found out, the infinity wasn't set well, so it's a bit blurry.

http://www.degalerie.nl/1/dak2.wmv

It's the sunset on my roof, so it should be a bit dark.

But I managed to mix the two cameras pretty well. The colors and the brightness of the left and the right part aren't really visible anymore.
You can see the GG slightly, I think because the whole thing is overexposed, so the lens openings of the DV cameras aren’t correct.


The footage is compressed of course, if I have a test to show the sharpness, I'll better post a still frame.

Wow is all I can say. That footage looks great. You are really bringing this 35mm X 2 thing up a notch, Oscar!

I just remembered that we are in the same country Ocar! Funny to
see that someone here is playing with such systems. Where are
you in the country? I'm up in the north.

Haarlem N-H. And it's Oscar, I mistyped when signing up. I know a De Savornin Lohman who bought a sculpture of mine, but that's not you right?

That's not me. Please send an e-mail to chris@dvinfo.net to notify
him of your invalid username, he'll get it fixed. I'll also point this
out to him.

Fixed -- thanks Rob,

Here is a low light test I made. It's shot with one 500w spot and is the minimal to have acceptable dimmed images.


http://s01.picshome.com/52a/lowlight.jpg


It's much compressed JPG, but I think the image is pretty sharp.

I've finished the last major bumps, so I'm ready to start shooting. This week I'm in Anvers (Belgium) where I'll be doing some testing on a scene I'm planning. So if I have some new footage, I'll post it.
I'm sure the adapter needs a lot of tweaking, but now I can pick it up, press REC and start filming.

I can't wait to see the footage. Your double cam has great colour saturation! Shoot shoot shoot! I am sure you will turn some heads with that thing, maybe you might bump into something that has some money to invest!

For people interested in my project: Here is an example how the two camera's mix.

http://s01.picshome.com/52a/0-00-09-02c.jpg


It's in full resolution 1040 x 720 but it's JPG compressed. I think it's also a good example of the DOF adapter.


-It was shot with one 500W (indirect) and one 300W (direct) spot.
-With color correct, I mean to mix the images together, the footage is not color corrected for final use.

Looks good Oscar!
Keep on doing what you are doing, looks good.
What is your frame size now? Is it close to 20/30mm (or so)?
How painful is the editing? Would it be worth while for commercial purposes? Time consuming? I am thinking 10:1 feature (or even a commercial). If you have 60 minutes of footage to line up (times two that is), how long before you can get to editing? Anyway good workaround the resolution with great results.
Bravo.

Looks very nice! Now replace the two Sony cams with two DVX100A... :-))
No really... although I'm located in northwest Germany that's not really far from the netherlands... I own a DVX100A myself and it wouldn't be a problem to organize another one. Not sure right now which cam Rob Lohman owns...
So if you would be interested to test this out with two DVX - I'd be very interested!

Cheers,
-Sören

Dan, right now with my ordinary PC it renders one frame a second. Lining them up and color correcting should be the same for every take, but I still have some differences sometimes.
If you mean the framesize of the DOF machine (the frame on the GG), I don't know exactly but I'm sure it's near 35mm. So about 17mm for each camera.

Soeren, it would be nice, but the whole thing is build on my camera because they are placed on their sides.
Maybe I'll make a universal setup in the future, I'll let you know.

Oscar,

Any more footage on the way? I would love to see a scene when you are ready. Also, any pics of the new unit?

This is a test on the amount of color correction I can use to get the look I want, without getting saturated noise and things.

http://s01.picshome.com/52a/fr3.jpg

Note: The dark part on the wall is a corner, not the border between the two cams.


I'm now on to making some sort of anamorphic system on the adapter. First I'll try a single water prism right after the GG.

Did you deinterlace the footage for that shot? It looks really good!

I de-interlace everything, because the interlace is vertically since the cams are on their sides. This is another advantage of the double camera idea.