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May 11th, 2005, 01:37 PM
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#1 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 422
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Fliping the Image in Post Problems
After working on my mini35/micro35 dof machine and working with Adobe Premier Pro 1.5 I have found several Flaws...When using the Horizontal and Vertical Flip Filter we have degraded video to the point that it is worthless.. I have tried this on 2 machines...All video is 60i interlaced. These are BMP Images shot with a Sony PDX-10... here is the link
http://bellaire.homestead.com/files/...emier_flip.pdf |
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May 11th, 2005, 03:03 PM
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#2 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 804
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I have had the same results in Premiere and PPro. (best option being rotate 180)
I have tested Avid (just for the rotation) and it does a clean job. I have seen the same clean job done in FCP. I love Premiere (not Pro) so I flipped the camera. |
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May 11th, 2005, 04:09 PM
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#3 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 422
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great
So I'm not nuts... What about avid free dv? or AVI Sith and vurtual Dub? Any ideas? Thanks
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May 11th, 2005, 04:34 PM
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#4 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 493
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If you are flipping DV-AVI, don't forget about its limited colorspace. When you flip-flip it or rotate it (to your taste), you'll force a recompress cycle, and be massively messing around with the already limited colorspace.
How can you get around this? You'll have to work with uncompressed AVIs. Render out the flip/rotate as uncompressed AVI and keep it there. Or, if you are doing 24p conversion at some point, do all of that processing prior to the flip/rotate. Deartifact, convert to 24p, save as uncompressed AVI... then do your flip/rotate. It will look pretty bad any other way. Josh
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Owner/Operator, 727 Records Co-Founder, Matter of Chance Productions Blogger, Try Avoidance |
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May 11th, 2005, 05:03 PM
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#5 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 804
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I used AVID free DV to flip the footage, save it as AVI and import it in Premiere.
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May 11th, 2005, 05:49 PM
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#6 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 422
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Wow
Color Space and recompress... OK looks like I'll have to folow through with the Free DV and save out... Thanks for the Info on the Color space... Gets me thinking a bit more about what all goes on behind the walls of an AVI...
Also Dan do you capture the footage in Free Dv then export out as AVI or do you inport AVI into Free DV and flip and Export to AVI... Thanks for all the help... |
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May 11th, 2005, 06:02 PM
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#7 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 804
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Import in Avid (from tape) fip, save as ...AVI.
Premiere: import file (...avi) edit. you are welcome. DV INFO IS GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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May 11th, 2005, 06:13 PM
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#8 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hollywood, CA
Posts: 293
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Craig - you sent me your footage and I will post some results.
I did the 180 rotation in Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6 and I cannot see any difference between flipped and non-flipped. I am not a FCP user so I cannot speak from experience, but the flip=recompress and massively changing color space doesn't ring true for me - it certainly isn't my experience in LE6.
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========================== Brian Valente Redrock Microsystems |
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May 11th, 2005, 11:18 PM
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#9 | |
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Major Player
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 274
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Quote:
You can try AVISynth, which would get rid of another compression step. I posted the samples on Micro35 forum for you. |
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May 12th, 2005, 01:54 AM
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#10 |
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Regular Crew
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Rainham, Kent, UK
Posts: 69
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Seems to me that it's an interlace issue.
If you're shooting interlaced video, and you want it to stay as interlaced video, it doesn't seem to me that there's any perfect solution to fix this problem, other than to flip the camera upside down when you shoot. The next best solution that I can think of would be to move the clip up or down by one pixel, and render it out as if it were progressive. |
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May 12th, 2005, 12:55 PM
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#11 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 613
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Flipping the Image in Final Cut Pro looks flawless. Yeah, I know you may all be on PCs. I thought I'd just make this of record for others venturing into the 35mm imaging madness. I'm using progressive footage from an XL2 and that may also be aiding in the ease of processing.
Even better yet, export out as Uncompressed and you'll be ensuring you don't add any possible DV-based recompression artifacts. |
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May 12th, 2005, 01:24 PM
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#12 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 422
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virtual dub
OK I've been playing with virtual dub and it's a great tool. I can flip, de-interlace and add an s-curve all at once and it's over with. Even looks good... best of all it's free... thanks again
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May 12th, 2005, 03:32 PM
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#13 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hollywood, CA
Posts: 293
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Craig - where is the flip feature in virtual dub? I'm using 1.5.1
Thanks
__________________
========================== Brian Valente Redrock Microsystems |
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May 12th, 2005, 04:02 PM
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#14 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 241
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Brian,
Video->Filters->Add use either "rotate" or "flip horizontally" and "flip vertically" Not sure if they give you the same output or if one is better than the other Cheers |
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May 12th, 2005, 04:07 PM
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#15 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 422
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Brian
VDUB is great, you can rotate 180, deinterlace and even add an S-Curve all at the same time..Video->Filters->Add. You will have to load a codec for DV that works with VFW and you can even used a diffent codec to output such as windows DV to Pinnacle or canopus...
Brian can you e-mail me please craigbellaire@hotmail.com |
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