Real World Differences between Mini35 and Alternatives

[Andrew Todd]

letus35xl with a relay lens coming out soon. the gap is getting smaller.

[Michael Maier]

Originally Posted by Andrew Todd

letus35xl with a relay lens coming out soon. the gap is getting smaller.

How is it getting smaller? Do you mean the length of the rig? Because quality-wise I can't believe a homemade relay lens will be even as good as the stock Canon. So is the quality gap getting smaller or just the looks gap? Is there a real point to that?

[Andrew Todd]

i mean in comparison to the mini35 which uses a relay lens... which for cheaper alternatives to the mini35 is a first.

[Michael Maier]

Again the gap is not closing in terms of a relay lens. The Mini35 relay lens is professionally made by an experienced optics company, not home made. That lens alone costs $2,000. How will a homemade lens, which will sell with a whole system for most likely half of what the P+S relay sells for, match it in quality? Optics is a more complex matter than the mechanics of these adapters. I doubt a homemade relay will be better than the lenses that come with the XL2, XL H1 or HD100, so what’s the point? Looks? Making the rig shorter(a really silly one, if the case)? At cost of quality? Pointless if you ask me. Besides, judging by the quality of the ground glass in the Letus35 and all the complains about it (and in other homemade adapters), one can only guess how good a home made relay lens can be. Remember a lens is a much harder thing to design and produce than a ground glass.

[Andrew Todd]

i have the older version of the letus and i am extremely happy with the results, and the savings i have in my pocket. There's no use in speculating what the quality will be. ill post footage once i get it.

[Fredrick Shockley]

Quite simply, the mini is not worth 10-12k. I own a micro35 and its absolutley awsome. I can use cine lenses to and old manual nikon lens. I would rather put more time and money into making sure I have the right lighting, solid script, sound, effects ie(make up, and costume; the list can go on on. The mini is just not the only kid on the block anymore. You get the same quality if not better with an adapter much less expensive. Having said that truly the price needs to come way way way down. Because for 12k it better not be any compromises in anything. Only the ones for less money should have trade offs. Besides 12k is still not getting your footage to look exactly like film any. Here is an expert opinion. http://www.showreel.org/memberarea/article.php?172

[Eric MacIver]

I can still tell a difference in fit, finish and quality. Not to mention flipping (for the micro35). In fact, I was there the entire time Taylor (from the article you linked to) tested the mini35 - which received much less testing (and no on-set tests) in comparison to the micro35, movietube and guerilla.

I'm not saying the test wasn't thourough - but I think it was his first time with the mini, and he only played with it at my office for an hour or so.

As for pricing, I agree the price difference makes for an interesting equation of quality to price.

For instance - you CAN buy a follow focus for a few hundred dollars, or you can buy one for $3500.... They both do the same thing, but one, perhaps only slightly better is much more expensive. There are uses and markets for both.

That's why, if you're renting or buying a huge package of lights, sound, camera, lenses, etc... The price of the mini35 vs. alternatives becomes much more understated. For instance, some of my rental packages that go out at $5k+ only have about $550 dedicated to the mini35. And, when you're putting that much behind a production, you want to have that minute amount of extra bulletproofing in your equipment. P+S Technik has been around for decades... You know they put out quality equipment.

However, if you already own a small light package, some lenses and a camera, and the only thing you need is an adapter to get everything to work (which you want to own), you're probably best off buying one of these lower cost alternatives rather than saving up for a mini35.

[Andrew Todd]

as i said (typed) above, the gap is closing.. i have the letus35xl.. with relay lens.. and flipped.. quality is amazing. p+s technik have to realize that their monopoly on these devices is little by little coming to an end. i believe in the years to come that as the alternatives get better and better that p+s technik will have to start lowering their price. its what happens with every new product. $12,000 is not a realistic price for this adapter.. sure theres people that can afford it.. but that $11,00 difference is looking more and more silly by the day.

[Mick Isdes]

"Different strokes for different folks" But there is a major difference between the P+S and a cost effective option. If I had the budget that required a P+S and I couldn't buy it I would rent it over the choice of buying a inferior product. It's plain and simple, producing a quality production isn't cheap.

Last I heard the Letsus doesn't offer Cinelenes adapters? not including a host of small interfering issuses. On the other hand it's great that budget options are availabe but no matter how hard you try you can't make that Panasonic DVX-100 look or drive like a Panasonic AJ-HDC27 Varicam.

[Winston Vargas]

Just like to add my 2 cents on the adapters. Let me show you my adapter which is not a 35mm since I don't use 35mm lenses or 35mm groundglass. I am using medium format lenses and a 645 groundglass which is twice as large as a 35mm groundglass. I love to read all of the concerns about using prime film lenses. Lets consider what we re doing with these adapters. The camera is filming a groundglass I would like to see what the Zeiss or Arri prime lenses can do, no matter what they can do you are still filming a groundglass and the quality of a high quality lens might help but is not like shooting film. It's like copying a photograph with a very high quality lens. Do you think you are going to make the photograph look better than the original? I will be testing my adapter with a Canon HD in the next couple of days. Looks great on the DVX so let's see what happens with the HD. My theory is that the larger the area that one is filming the better the image. That's the reason for the larger groundglass.

take a look at the adapter...
http://www.bentonjohn.com/Adapter/Winston.html

There seems to be a problem with the server, at least today.. Let's hope it's OK tomorrow if not I will repost photos somewhere else.

Originally Posted by Dennis Hingsberg

For me it's a few things, the mini35 is extremely rugid. The camera actually gets mounted to it, rather then the adapter getting mounted to the camera. This makes for a big difference which I think is often overlooked in comparisons, the mini35 is definitely a device that will withstand the rigors of a film set. The mini35 comes with and supports industry standard 15mm extension bars which means industry standard matte boxes and follow focus units can be added (not all DIY 35mm adapters do this, if any).

Image flipping. For professional film production this is just not acceptable. I understand there are a lot of work arounds to this whether it be sticking magnets on LCD flip screen sensors, flipping in camera or in post.. but the bottom line is what happens when you want to run feed to an external monitor - which is what you expect to see if there is a separate camera man, DOP and director.

A wide variety of cine primes can be used with the mini35 depending on what lens kit you own/rent. This means you're getting the full advantage of shooting with high speed cookes, etc.. which I won't get completely into the advantages of but will quickly add that better glass = better image and of course means no breathing of lenses and once again support for industry add on systems.

Friends that won't laugh. Okay this point is completely senseless I agree. But let's face it, show up with a mini35 and suddenly everyone is your friend. It just looks kick ass.

At the end of the day is the mini35 expensive? YES. Can most afford it? NO. Is it a rip off? DEPENDS WHERE YOU'RE SITTING. The truth is when I'm not shooting my own films I'm renting out the mini35 and optional camera package so these points are all very important for me. I know many guys who shoot on film all the time who are in the industry and occassionally when they're looking to work on a small and independent project they love the mini35 because it emulates their world so perfectly. If I offered use of a letus, micro, kleenex box 35 (see above picture) or any other device for FREE they'd probably say no thanks. There are just too many limitations and perhaps constrictions from a professional standpoint.


So perhaps the real difference is between the users of the technology, not the technology itself. I'm Jerry Springer, thank you and good night.

[Chris Lognion]

Winston,

How did your tests come out? I'm curious if the medium format glass made a difference.

Chris

[Michael Maier]

Looks cool. What did you use for the viewfinder over the LCD?

[Marian Teodorescu]

Hy, I wanna say to you the Mini 35 its incredible. I shoot some commercials and some musical clips and it assome. Escuse my english. I am from romania , a own a mini 35 with a canon xl 2 , and i use a set of lenses arri high speed 1,4 and a wide lens Kinoptic 9,8mm. What ho you thing about the frames ?


thanks for your review

[Michael Maier]

Looks great Marian. Welcome to the forums.

[Frank Hool]

Originally Posted by Dennis Hingsberg

Image flipping. For professional film production this is just not acceptable.

It's often just not acceptable do not use EVF, especially You're after precise focusing, wich is definately matter by shallow DOF.