XL2 EVF Image Flipper! My wacky brain? at DVinfo.net

Matthew Nayman · February 14th, 2006, 03:45 PM

Hello,

I am an XL2/Soon-to-be M2 user and have been trying to get my head around this upsidedown image thingee...

So, I figure my options are either

1: Depend on an External LCD (5", 7" with a flip button) either way, not having accurate focus or colour representation.

2: Flip the EVF to the right hand side, so image is right-side up, but not be able to hand-hold or really "See" the LCD very well.

3: Purchase a second Canon EVF and manuallr rotate the LCD screen within it's housing so I have two EVF's, one upside down, one rightside up...

However, my mind has been thinking... (as opposed to my feet?)
Would it be possible to build some prism system (or dislodge one from an SLR) that would fit into the XL2 EVF and flip the image 180 degrees? I know they make detachable VF's for medium format cameras, but those only really reverse the image side-to-side (ever shot with a MF from the hip? You'll know what I mean).

I am not an engineer, and don't even know that much about traditional photography, but I think this could work. Anyone tried? It doesn't matter about light loss because the image is registering on the CCD's without a prism infront of it. I don't mind a darker EVF in exchange for the ability to Hand Hold.

Thoughts?

Matthew Nayman · February 15th, 2006, 08:13 AM

No one? Alright then...

Francois Poitras · February 15th, 2006, 12:05 PM

I don’t know how the Canon’s work, but here is what will be my cheap, low cost solution with my Panasonic GS400 (not done yet).

The GS400 and apparently the other Pannys up to the HVX200 have a SELF REC or SELF SHOOT feature. This allows you, when you rotate the LCD 180° (for example when you record yourself), to change the image right-left orientation. So now you get an upside down image, but with the correct right-left orientation.

Wit this feature, using two good quality (front surface) mirrors placed at the right angles, you can get a correctly displayed image.

Here is a little test I did yesterday with two standard mirrors. Please note that there is obvious ghosting, due to using standard mirrors. Also, I had forgotten to turn on the adapter.

Cheap 2 mirror solution with Panasonic cams

Steev Dinkins · February 15th, 2006, 12:51 PM

Now this is getting interesting. I was going to mention using a mirror, but didn't think it would be of interest.

Currently I am using 1 mirror to correct the vertical direction. But I didn't try two mirrors.

http://web.mac.com/holyzoo1/iWeb/Sit...s/IMG_4351.jpg

I purchased an optical grade mirror from Thorlabs that has no ghosting. Very nice. :)

Let me know if you're interested in knowing what where how much etc.

NOTE: The mirror in the photo is the old cheap mirror, not the Thorlabs one.

Francois Poitras · February 15th, 2006, 12:59 PM

Steev, thanks for the offer. I’m waiting for a quote from a company for 3"x3" front surface mirrors, but they have not replied yet. I have seen some 4"x5" mirrors for $15.

I’m thinking of arranging them in "Hoodman" type material. I still have to test different mirror positions.

The only problem with this solution is that the angle for a full view will be somewhat limited, since the LCD has to be completely rotated.

Steev Dinkins · February 15th, 2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francois Poitras

The only problem with this solution is that the angle for a full view will be somewhat limited, since the LCD has to be completely rotated.

Yes, agreed. Right now, for me, I think it's close enough to just use 1 mirror to correct vertical perspective, since this is really just for run and gun situations. For more controlled shoots, I'd have my Marshall LCD monitor to achieve proper orientation AND superior resolution compared to the stock camera LCD.

But I gotta try your two mirror idea.

Matthew Nayman · February 15th, 2006, 01:55 PM

The XL2 EVF does not flip all the way around, so the image never rotates. Anyone know of a prism system that does a rotation?

That's an interesting set up tho

Steev Dinkins · February 15th, 2006, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman

The XL2 EVF does not flip all the way around, so the image never rotates.

If you don't find a better solution, I recommend #2 - flipping the viewfinder to the other side. I shot a number of run and gun shorts this way with my adapter when I had the XL2. It's ergonomically challenging for sure, but it works.

Matthew Nayman · February 15th, 2006, 03:46 PM

How do you manage to get your eye close enough to the EVF? Is my head jsut too fat?

Matthew Nayman · February 15th, 2006, 03:54 PM

I was thinking, couldyou stick two dove prisms together? One to rotate the image vertically and one to rotate it horizontally? Might work?

Steev Dinkins · February 15th, 2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman

Is my head jsut too fat?

Now I would hope that's not the case. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman

How do you manage to get your eye close enough to the EVF?

For me I had to hold the camera with my left hand from the top handle, shift the camera to my left side, and put my eye really close to the bare LCD (the eyepiece flipped up and out of the way). My eyes are still workin pretty well, so I could gauge focus pretty well. So most of my shots end up being slightly low in perspective, looking slightly up towards people. So, it's not perfect, but it works for run and gun.

Matthew Nayman · February 15th, 2006, 08:40 PM

OH, I thought you meant with the eyepiece down. Was thinking you got a narrow head!

Steev Dinkins · February 15th, 2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman

OH, I thought you meant with the eyepiece down. Was thinking you got a narrow head!

Heh heh.. No, no. I never used that eyepiece down - it's horrible. The LCD was the only way I could tell if I was in focus or not.

February 14th, 2006, 03:45 PM	#1
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	XL2 EVF Image Flipper! My wacky brain? Hello, I am an XL2/Soon-to-be M2 user and have been trying to get my head around this upsidedown image thingee... So, I figure my options are either 1: Depend on an External LCD (5", 7" with a flip button) either way, not having accurate focus or colour representation. 2: Flip the EVF to the right hand side, so image is right-side up, but not be able to hand-hold or really "See" the LCD very well. 3: Purchase a second Canon EVF and manuallr rotate the LCD screen within it's housing so I have two EVF's, one upside down, one rightside up... However, my mind has been thinking... (as opposed to my feet?) Would it be possible to build some prism system (or dislodge one from an SLR) that would fit into the XL2 EVF and flip the image 180 degrees? I know they make detachable VF's for medium format cameras, but those only really reverse the image side-to-side (ever shot with a MF from the hip? You'll know what I mean). I am not an engineer, and don't even know that much about traditional photography, but I think this could work. Anyone tried? It doesn't matter about light loss because the image is registering on the CCD's without a prism infront of it. I don't mind a darker EVF in exchange for the ability to Hand Hold. Thoughts?

February 15th, 2006, 12:05 PM	#3
Francois Poitras Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Québec (Canada) Posts: 133	I don’t know how the Canon’s work, but here is what will be my cheap, low cost solution with my Panasonic GS400 (not done yet). The GS400 and apparently the other Pannys up to the HVX200 have a SELF REC or SELF SHOOT feature. This allows you, when you rotate the LCD 180° (for example when you record yourself), to change the image right-left orientation. So now you get an upside down image, but with the correct right-left orientation. Wit this feature, using two good quality (front surface) mirrors placed at the right angles, you can get a correctly displayed image. Here is a little test I did yesterday with two standard mirrors. Please note that there is obvious ghosting, due to using standard mirrors. Also, I had forgotten to turn on the adapter. Cheap 2 mirror solution with Panasonic cams __________________ François

February 15th, 2006, 12:51 PM	#4
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	Now this is getting interesting. I was going to mention using a mirror, but didn't think it would be of interest. Currently I am using 1 mirror to correct the vertical direction. But I didn't try two mirrors. http://web.mac.com/holyzoo1/iWeb/Sit...s/IMG_4351.jpg I purchased an optical grade mirror from Thorlabs that has no ghosting. Very nice. :) Let me know if you're interested in knowing what where how much etc. NOTE: The mirror in the photo is the old cheap mirror, not the Thorlabs one. __________________ www.holyzoo.com

February 15th, 2006, 12:59 PM	#5
Francois Poitras Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Québec (Canada) Posts: 133	Steev, thanks for the offer. I’m waiting for a quote from a company for 3"x3" front surface mirrors, but they have not replied yet. I have seen some 4"x5" mirrors for $15. I’m thinking of arranging them in "Hoodman" type material. I still have to test different mirror positions. The only problem with this solution is that the angle for a full view will be somewhat limited, since the LCD has to be completely rotated. __________________ François

February 15th, 2006, 08:13 AM	#2
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	No one? Alright then...

February 15th, 2006, 01:55 PM	#7
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	The XL2 EVF does not flip all the way around, so the image never rotates. Anyone know of a prism system that does a rotation? That's an interesting set up tho

February 15th, 2006, 03:46 PM	#9
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	How do you manage to get your eye close enough to the EVF? Is my head jsut too fat?

February 15th, 2006, 03:54 PM	#10
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	I was thinking, couldyou stick two dove prisms together? One to rotate the image vertically and one to rotate it horizontally? Might work?

February 15th, 2006, 08:40 PM	#12
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	OH, I thought you meant with the eyepiece down. Was thinking you got a narrow head!