wax vibrating medium format adaptor (read this one) at DVinfo.net

Daniel Schaumberger · October 11th, 2006, 03:41 AM

Hi guys,

i want to share my DIY-Pro design of my medium format adaptor. It is based on Tõnis Liivamägi (www.cinedof.com) gg-holder. It is not yet finished i have to design the housing. The whole vibrating unit is kept in an aluminium ring that can be moved back and forth for infinity focus via the orange screw. I use a wax gg for superb bokeh and a planoconvex lens as condenser. I use a high end Achromatic Triplet (not in the pics) from Fraunhofer Institut here in munich for minimal achromatic aberration.

best regards
Daniel

Sorry for multiple posting something went wrong here.
Admin please delete the other posts.

http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/vibra70.jpg
http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/vibra70_1.jpg
http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/vibra70_2.jpg

Wayne Kinney · October 11th, 2006, 05:27 AM

Nice,

It has been a while since anybody has done anything with wax screens as far as I know, especially on a vibrating setup. I would be interested in seeing this one develope.

Toenis Liivamaegi · October 11th, 2006, 05:29 AM

Good job!

I quess you have managed to get the thickness of those leaf springs just right as those must be at least five times thicker than the thickness of the material. And if you still get Z movement try to shorten the leaf springs or use 6 instead of 4 as you have plenty of room to accomodate such a design.

Mechanical properties of the material should be Derlin-like and low thermal expansion rate is a must to avoid thermal expansion or contraction of springs or else it would change or even distort the image plane when the temperature changes.

Btw what are you using for CAD and CAM work, Rhinoceros, Solid Edge, DeskProto?

Thanks for quoting us,
T

Alex Chong · October 11th, 2006, 06:24 AM

Hi Toenis,

I have been working on a vibrating GG holder but similar to the Quyen's design. I haven't been able to get good result as the 14mm motor is no more in production. I understand your design can utilise a 12mm motor and the vibration is good. Now, since daniel has done a similar design to you. I guess you don't have a copyright on this design. Is your design free to all DIY? I intend to make an adaptor that I can sell. The key word here is SELL. Of course the GG holder is just one part of the adaptor. My adaptor has flip capability. I am just wondering if I can incorporate a design SIMILAR to your GG holder into my design. Thanks.

Jim Lafferty · October 11th, 2006, 12:58 PM

This looks promising. Do you have the wax situation figured out? I've been through extensive tests and experiments with that and could give you some guidance if you'd like. Best of luck!

- jim

Wayne Kinney · October 11th, 2006, 01:08 PM

Jim is the king of microwax!!!

Daniel Schaumberger · October 11th, 2006, 09:30 PM

Hi Jim,

i used 2 glassplates everyone 1mm thick and sandwiched it with a gap of 0.10mm. I put the wax in a sheet metal box together with the sandwich in the oven at 70-80° C and used the capilar effect. The wax climbs up without any bubbles and i get a clean wax gg without submerging it.
I use 5% white bees wax + 95% hard paraffin wax. Someone told me to take the wax gg out of the oven and put it directly into the refrigerator to cool it down very fastly. Ive not tested it yet i let it cool down very slow in the oven.

How do you make your wax gg's. Do you have another method?

>>> wayne= Ive not seen the 35mm SGPro before, is it a spinning or vibrating device and what sort of gg do you use? It looks very nice an solid on your website.

best regards
Daniel

Jim Lafferty · October 13th, 2006, 03:57 PM

When I was playing with microwax, I never ventured into the capillary action as it just seemed like too much work (for me). Interesting to read you got it done. Congrats! I would love to see some footage samples with your screen not moving... what kind of light loss do you see?

How do you control the separation of the glass?

For the Go35Pro, I don't use microwax, but with the substance I do use, I get an even spread that is far thinner than .003mm using a technique similar to Oscar Spier's method of a thin material separating the two pieces of glass, the entire setup submerged in the polymer.

I've found that, with tight, small grain suspended in a polymer, bokeh, diffusion, light loss, and size/quantity of the grain are all interdependent. As the thickness goes down, the grain goes up, and there's a relatively "happy" medium you need to strike between light loss and bokeh. Too little diffusion, and while the light loss goes under 2 stops, at a certain point you get some aerial pass-through. At the other end, you can get a 100% grainless image with fantastic bokeh but light loss goes up to 2.5 to 3 stops!

- jim

Daniel Schaumberger · October 15th, 2006, 06:55 PM

Hi guys,

had some time today to do a quick tutorial on how to create easy wax-gg's using the capillary action. After i got my cam back i will post some 35mm grabs.

NEW!!! WAX-GG in 5 easy steps! With detailed pics and infos! FOR FREE ;-)

http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/WA...easy_Steps.pdf (1.25MB)

Daniel

Ivan Brasen · October 16th, 2006, 12:54 AM

Thanks a lot for tutorial, Daniel.

Can't wait to try it. :)

Frank Hool · October 16th, 2006, 08:06 AM

Very nice tutorial! Really good job. Thanks.

Toenis Liivamaegi · October 16th, 2006, 08:59 AM

Nice!!

Does anyone know what happens to wax screen when used in hot studio environments or even when you leave it in car on sunny summer day?

This screen apparently can be used even in CINEDOF vibration unit as it can take screens with thicknesses from 1.7mm to 2.0mm.

Cheers,
T

Rich Hibner · October 16th, 2006, 09:35 AM

T,

When i was doing wax research it takes a lot to have it melt. First off, i'm never going to leave my camera or any equipment in my car. Yeah, it would melt. Inside of a car it can get anywhere up to 120F. Studio's you should be fine. Now, this is Micro wax aslo I read about. I'm not sure about the kind of wax Daniel is using. I'm sure it will hold.

Tony Relph · November 15th, 2006, 07:44 PM

Hi Daniel,

Do you have any stills or footage made using your wax gg screen?

October 11th, 2006, 03:41 AM	#1
Daniel Schaumberger Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Atlantis Posts: 58	wax vibrating medium format adaptor (read this one) Hi guys, i want to share my DIY-Pro design of my medium format adaptor. It is based on Tõnis Liivamägi (www.cinedof.com) gg-holder. It is not yet finished i have to design the housing. The whole vibrating unit is kept in an aluminium ring that can be moved back and forth for infinity focus via the orange screw. I use a wax gg for superb bokeh and a planoconvex lens as condenser. I use a high end Achromatic Triplet (not in the pics) from Fraunhofer Institut here in munich for minimal achromatic aberration. best regards Daniel Sorry for multiple posting something went wrong here. Admin please delete the other posts. http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/vibra70.jpg http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/vibra70_1.jpg http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/vibra70_2.jpg

October 11th, 2006, 05:27 AM	#2
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Nice, It has been a while since anybody has done anything with wax screens as far as I know, especially on a vibrating setup. I would be interested in seeing this one develope. __________________ Thanks, Wayne.

October 11th, 2006, 12:58 PM	#5
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	This looks promising. Do you have the wax situation figured out? I've been through extensive tests and experiments with that and could give you some guidance if you'd like. Best of luck! - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

October 11th, 2006, 01:08 PM	#6
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Jim is the king of microwax!!! __________________ Thanks, Wayne.

October 11th, 2006, 09:30 PM	#7
Daniel Schaumberger Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Atlantis Posts: 58	wax gg Hi Jim, i used 2 glassplates everyone 1mm thick and sandwiched it with a gap of 0.10mm. I put the wax in a sheet metal box together with the sandwich in the oven at 70-80° C and used the capilar effect. The wax climbs up without any bubbles and i get a clean wax gg without submerging it. I use 5% white bees wax + 95% hard paraffin wax. Someone told me to take the wax gg out of the oven and put it directly into the refrigerator to cool it down very fastly. Ive not tested it yet i let it cool down very slow in the oven. How do you make your wax gg's. Do you have another method? >>> wayne= Ive not seen the 35mm SGPro before, is it a spinning or vibrating device and what sort of gg do you use? It looks very nice an solid on your website. best regards Daniel

October 11th, 2006, 05:29 AM	#3
Toenis Liivamaegi Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tartu, Estonia Posts: 579	Good job! I quess you have managed to get the thickness of those leaf springs just right as those must be at least five times thicker than the thickness of the material. And if you still get Z movement try to shorten the leaf springs or use 6 instead of 4 as you have plenty of room to accomodate such a design. Mechanical properties of the material should be Derlin-like and low thermal expansion rate is a must to avoid thermal expansion or contraction of springs or else it would change or even distort the image plane when the temperature changes. Btw what are you using for CAD and CAM work, Rhinoceros, Solid Edge, DeskProto? Thanks for quoting us, T

October 11th, 2006, 06:24 AM	#4
Alex Chong Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Brunei Posts: 140	Hi Toenis, I have been working on a vibrating GG holder but similar to the Quyen's design. I haven't been able to get good result as the 14mm motor is no more in production. I understand your design can utilise a 12mm motor and the vibration is good. Now, since daniel has done a similar design to you. I guess you don't have a copyright on this design. Is your design free to all DIY? I intend to make an adaptor that I can sell. The key word here is SELL. Of course the GG holder is just one part of the adaptor. My adaptor has flip capability. I am just wondering if I can incorporate a design SIMILAR to your GG holder into my design. Thanks.

October 13th, 2006, 03:57 PM	#8
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	When I was playing with microwax, I never ventured into the capillary action as it just seemed like too much work (for me). Interesting to read you got it done. Congrats! I would love to see some footage samples with your screen not moving... what kind of light loss do you see? How do you control the separation of the glass? For the Go35Pro, I don't use microwax, but with the substance I do use, I get an even spread that is far thinner than .003mm using a technique similar to Oscar Spier's method of a thin material separating the two pieces of glass, the entire setup submerged in the polymer. I've found that, with tight, small grain suspended in a polymer, bokeh, diffusion, light loss, and size/quantity of the grain are all interdependent. As the thickness goes down, the grain goes up, and there's a relatively "happy" medium you need to strike between light loss and bokeh. Too little diffusion, and while the light loss goes under 2 stops, at a certain point you get some aerial pass-through. At the other end, you can get a 100% grainless image with fantastic bokeh but light loss goes up to 2.5 to 3 stops! - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

October 15th, 2006, 06:55 PM	#9
Daniel Schaumberger Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Atlantis Posts: 58	wax gg tutorial Hi guys, had some time today to do a quick tutorial on how to create easy wax-gg's using the capillary action. After i got my cam back i will post some 35mm grabs. NEW!!! WAX-GG in 5 easy steps! With detailed pics and infos! FOR FREE ;-) http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/WA...easy_Steps.pdf (1.25MB) Daniel

October 16th, 2006, 12:54 AM	#10
Ivan Brasen New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Slovak Republic Posts: 9	Thanks a lot for tutorial, Daniel. Can't wait to try it. :)

October 16th, 2006, 08:06 AM	#11
Frank Hool Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Barca Spain Posts: 384	Very nice tutorial! Really good job. Thanks.

October 16th, 2006, 08:59 AM	#12
Toenis Liivamaegi Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tartu, Estonia Posts: 579	Nice!! Does anyone know what happens to wax screen when used in hot studio environments or even when you leave it in car on sunny summer day? This screen apparently can be used even in CINEDOF vibration unit as it can take screens with thicknesses from 1.7mm to 2.0mm. Cheers, T

October 16th, 2006, 09:35 AM	#13
Rich Hibner Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 218 Images: 1	T, When i was doing wax research it takes a lot to have it melt. First off, i'm never going to leave my camera or any equipment in my car. Yeah, it would melt. Inside of a car it can get anywhere up to 120F. Studio's you should be fine. Now, this is Micro wax aslo I read about. I'm not sure about the kind of wax Daniel is using. I'm sure it will hold.

November 15th, 2006, 07:44 PM	#14
Tony Relph Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canary Wharf, London E14 Posts: 166	Hi Daniel, Do you have any stills or footage made using your wax gg screen? __________________ Tony Relph. anthonyjohnrelph@hotmail.com