New DIY HD Cinema Camera Project

Jose A. Garcia · July 27th, 2007, 09:07 AM

No, this time I'm requesting the whole package. Dev board included.

Wayne Morellini · July 28th, 2007, 09:22 AM

If you want to hire somebody to make ti, you have Take, and also Rob Scott has software already, but I think he is no longer doing it for free.

The Ambarella chip has an ARM micro-controller, so should be able to be setup to control, the system instead of an PC. But, where ever the array of SPARC (or was that MIPS) processors are assessable and programmable is the question, and how programmable, and how much programming is needed. Basically view it as, possibly, equivalent to the guts of the Elphel, maybe even an bit more configurable (display memory cards ports etc).

There is open-source FPGA of BBC's Dirac Pro video codec:
http://dirac.sourceforge.net/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/dirac/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/dirac/diracpro.shtml

If you approach cineform, you can purchase an mass license for their codec at an cheap price, but you have to make all the rest of the program.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Take Vos

The MacMini also has a AirPort Extreme that is connected to a 1x PCI Express. Probably through a "PCI Express Mini Card" connector.

I couldn't find a Mini Card to PCI Express extender, but it may allow connection with a capture card or firewire 800.

So Mac Mini has PIC-E, I wonder if I could get Intensity card working on that?

About Mac Mini PC, does not have the GPU capacity, but expected GPU to come.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812232002

Can something like that be modified to take an feed from an USB camera directly to an hard drive?

I have become so cynical, that I just realised I haven't posted this thread over at my technical thread. If there is any others I have forgot please feel free to post them there:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=28781
Just looking at the thread numbers, I have been around here for over 50K threads {:(

Wayne Morellini · July 28th, 2007, 10:09 AM

Found some amusing stuff in terms of the PC, an version with GigE/USB and IDE would be interesting:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smurf-com...nes-266737.php
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13...1/article.html

Igor Babic · July 28th, 2007, 01:17 PM

There is another intresting motherboard like LS-371.
http://www.aaeon.com.tw/PD_Products_..._US_utf-8.html
This one has propriatry expansion port (along with mini PCI) that has PCI-e!
I have email them to see if this add on is available. If it is, I have Intensity on this ASAP.

Jose A. Garcia · July 28th, 2007, 02:37 PM

Wow! This one's just great! How much? If it's cheap enough I'll buy it and I'll start building the computer part.

Igor Babic · July 28th, 2007, 03:00 PM

little more or same as ls-371. search thru their site they have enclusures for testbed, and lots of addons. I will post you if they answer me.

Jamie Varney · July 28th, 2007, 06:11 PM

Hey Jose, did you get the PM I sent you a few days back with my address?

Jose A. Garcia · July 28th, 2007, 06:27 PM

No, I didn't. You can mail me.

Jamie Varney · July 29th, 2007, 10:37 AM

I sent you an email Jose, let me know if you didn't get it. Also I would recommend removing your email address from that last post, don't want you to get any undo spam.

So any luck getting a datasheet from omnivision?

Jamie Varney · July 30th, 2007, 07:43 PM

Just thought I would let you guys know that that thanks to opencores.org I have found someone who is working on a very similar project, so we have teamed up in our efforts. Basically we are planing to interface both the omnivision and the Micron chips to an FPGA and allow the user to output to either a hard drive or GigE! Right now we are still in the very early stages so it may be a few months before we have anything that works, but the future is looking promising!

Jose could you let me know for sure if you got my email and if you have had anything luck with the datasheets?

Steven Mingam · July 31st, 2007, 01:48 AM

If you are looking for the full datasheet of MT9P micron sensor, Jose attached it somewhere in the thread... If you don't find it, i can send it to you.

By the way, i was going to start on my own something very similar to your project, it would be a pity to waste human resource on duplicate work. Would it be possible to join efforts ?

Jose A. Garcia · July 31st, 2007, 03:48 AM

Ok. Perfect! This looks promising!

Now, Jamie. I didn't get your mail. I don't know why. How can we do it?

I contacted Cypress. They've got the LUPA4000 which gets to 24fps at 2048x858 without any problem. It's a big sensor, so DOF is not an issue. I'd have to pay for the sensor (about $1100) but they loan the evaluation kit for free. So I can test it but as soon as the testing process finishes, I'm left with a single $1100 sensor and nothing more. Don't know if that's a good idea.

Also I'm still waiting for the Panavision quotation.

The Omnivision guy didn't answer yet. I'm waiting for the sensor datasheet and the answer about the possibility to get a demo board.

I think Micron and possibly Omnivision are the most balanced options. Having in mind that the only thing Cypress and Panavision offer is sensor size (both have rolling shutter as well) and they're way more expensive than the others, I think we should put all our efforts on making Micron and Omnivision sensors work the way we want. That way we'll have our low cost HD and 2K camera. If anyone wants to add an adaptor for DOF (like me), then go ahead, but our main goal here is having a working camera.

Solomon Chase · July 31st, 2007, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia

Ok. Perfect! This looks promising!

Now, Jamie. I didn't get your mail. I don't know why. How can we do it?

I contacted Cypress. They've got the LUPA4000 which gets to 24fps at 2048x858 without any problem. It's a big sensor, so DOF is not an issue. I'd have to pay for the sensor (about $1100) but they loan the evaluation kit for free. So I can test it but as soon as the testing process finishes, I'm left with a single $1100 sensor and nothing more. Don't know if that's a good idea.

Also I'm still waiting for the Panavision quotation.

The Omnivision guy didn't answer yet. I'm waiting for the sensor datasheet and the answer about the possibility to get a demo board.

I think Micron and possibly Omnivision are the most balanced options. Having in mind that the only thing Cypress and Panavision offer is sensor size (both have rolling shutter as well) and they're way more expensive than the others, I think we should put all our efforts on making Micron and Omnivision sensors work the way we want. That way we'll have our low cost HD and 2K camera. If anyone wants to add an adaptor for DOF (like me), then go ahead, but our main goal here is having a working camera.

LUPA4000 is monochrome. (Unless they recently have made color version?)

Right now my favorite sensor is the Foveon F13:
http://www.alt-vision.com/f13.htm

1280x720 at 24fps in FULL 4:4:4 color. It's also a big sensor, so you get the cinematic DOF.

Color purity, sharpness, and dynamic range are gonig to be through the roof, due to VPS binning. I'd say, upsampled to 1080p, it would rival native 1080p bayer sensors.

Jose A. Garcia · July 31st, 2007, 12:03 PM

Yes, the Foveon is one of the best sensors out there but, is it affordable?

I don't know if you've seen the development kit for that sensor but it includes a P4 computer, a screen and a big box full of different boards including the camera head, the cameralink output and a Nikon F mount. I don't think we can afford it.

Have you asked for a quotation?

Maybe upscaling a Foveon 720p image we can get to the quality we get with a 2K bayer sensor but, is it really the best solution?

Solomon Chase · July 31st, 2007, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia

Yes, the Foveon is one of the best sensors out there but, is it affordable?

I don't know if you've seen the development kit for that sensor but it includes a P4 computer, a screen and a big box full of different boards including the camera head, the cameralink output and a Nikon F mount. I don't think we can afford it.

Have you asked for a quotation?

Maybe upscaling a Foveon 720p image we can get to the quality we get with a 2K bayer sensor but, is it really the best solution?

The Foveon F13 Sensor is used in the Sigma SD14 SLR which is less than $999.
I've asked for a quote. I really don't think the sensor should cost more than an SLR camera that it comes in! :) Of course, the development kit may be rather expensive.

I'm personally more interested in a true 4:4:4 720p image than bayer 1080p or 2k.

July 28th, 2007, 01:17 PM	#289
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	Another like LS-371 There is another intresting motherboard like LS-371. http://www.aaeon.com.tw/PD_Products_..._US_utf-8.html This one has propriatry expansion port (along with mini PCI) that has PCI-e! I have email them to see if this add on is available. If it is, I have Intensity on this ASAP.

July 28th, 2007, 06:27 PM	#293
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	No, I didn't. You can mail me. Last edited by Jose A. Garcia; July 29th, 2007 at 11:56 AM.

July 27th, 2007, 09:07 AM	#286
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	No, this time I'm requesting the whole package. Dev board included.

July 28th, 2007, 10:09 AM	#288
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Found some amusing stuff in terms of the PC, an version with GigE/USB and IDE would be interesting: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smurf-com...nes-266737.php http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13...1/article.html

July 28th, 2007, 02:37 PM	#290
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Wow! This one's just great! How much? If it's cheap enough I'll buy it and I'll start building the computer part.

July 28th, 2007, 03:00 PM	#291
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	little more or same as ls-371. search thru their site they have enclusures for testbed, and lots of addons. I will post you if they answer me.

July 28th, 2007, 06:11 PM	#292
Jamie Varney Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 36	Hey Jose, did you get the PM I sent you a few days back with my address?

July 29th, 2007, 10:37 AM	#294
Jamie Varney Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 36	I sent you an email Jose, let me know if you didn't get it. Also I would recommend removing your email address from that last post, don't want you to get any undo spam. So any luck getting a datasheet from omnivision?

July 30th, 2007, 07:43 PM	#295
Jamie Varney Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 36	Just thought I would let you guys know that that thanks to opencores.org I have found someone who is working on a very similar project, so we have teamed up in our efforts. Basically we are planing to interface both the omnivision and the Micron chips to an FPGA and allow the user to output to either a hard drive or GigE! Right now we are still in the very early stages so it may be a few months before we have anything that works, but the future is looking promising! Jose could you let me know for sure if you got my email and if you have had anything luck with the datasheets?

July 31st, 2007, 01:48 AM	#296
Steven Mingam Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 91	If you are looking for the full datasheet of MT9P micron sensor, Jose attached it somewhere in the thread... If you don't find it, i can send it to you. By the way, i was going to start on my own something very similar to your project, it would be a pity to waste human resource on duplicate work. Would it be possible to join efforts ?

July 31st, 2007, 03:48 AM	#297
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Ok. Perfect! This looks promising! Now, Jamie. I didn't get your mail. I don't know why. How can we do it? I contacted Cypress. They've got the LUPA4000 which gets to 24fps at 2048x858 without any problem. It's a big sensor, so DOF is not an issue. I'd have to pay for the sensor (about $1100) but they loan the evaluation kit for free. So I can test it but as soon as the testing process finishes, I'm left with a single $1100 sensor and nothing more. Don't know if that's a good idea. Also I'm still waiting for the Panavision quotation. The Omnivision guy didn't answer yet. I'm waiting for the sensor datasheet and the answer about the possibility to get a demo board. I think Micron and possibly Omnivision are the most balanced options. Having in mind that the only thing Cypress and Panavision offer is sensor size (both have rolling shutter as well) and they're way more expensive than the others, I think we should put all our efforts on making Micron and Omnivision sensors work the way we want. That way we'll have our low cost HD and 2K camera. If anyone wants to add an adaptor for DOF (like me), then go ahead, but our main goal here is having a working camera.

July 31st, 2007, 12:03 PM	#299
Jose A. Garcia Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sevilla (Spain) Posts: 439	Yes, the Foveon is one of the best sensors out there but, is it affordable? I don't know if you've seen the development kit for that sensor but it includes a P4 computer, a screen and a big box full of different boards including the camera head, the cameralink output and a Nikon F mount. I don't think we can afford it. Have you asked for a quotation? Maybe upscaling a Foveon 720p image we can get to the quality we get with a 2K bayer sensor but, is it really the best solution?