Hey Chris,

There always seem to be Mac or Windows questions popping up in different forums...and I'm always searching through posts for Mac issues. Any chance of adding another category to the board...something like "Platform/Software Forums"...with at least two boards included in it..."Mac 'n DV" and "Windows 'n DV." And maybe "FCP Issues" and any other popular programs?

Just an idea (don't say it, Adrian) ;)

Indeed I have thought about this. I'd like to find someone well versed in Canopus systems to host a user forum here (I only drive 'em, I don't know what makes 'em work).

And there are tons of FCP sites already... www.2-pop.com and www.dvcreators.net -- however if somebody cared to moderate an FCP board, I'd be happy to add it.

By moderate, I mean at least respond to queries, something I'm not qualified for myself. I try to answer every unanswered post on the XL1 stuff, but even a few of those escape me sometimes. What kills message boards are unanswered posts and I have my hands full already just answering the few camera questions that the Inner Circle and Trustees don't get to (and that ain't many).

So, any volunteers? I can sure add such a board, but I couldn't baby-sit one. But if one of you guys is up to the task, let me know and it's a done deal.

I would be happy to moderate a Final Cut Pro and/or Mac board. I certainly cannot respond to every query nor am I qualified to do so, but Macs and FCP are a passion of mine. My definition of "moderation" is to keep things in line, meaning no flaming, trolling and stuff like that. It also means moving certain topics to a more appropriate forum and deleting duplicate posts (like when someone accidentally presses the SUBMIT button twice in a row). Other than that I think this place pretty much runs itself.

If anyone else would like to moderate a Final Cut Pro and/or Mac forum, please nominate yourself or someone you think could do a good job. You may be more qualified than I am.

Joe,

From your posts I'm betting you have more technical expertise than me with Mac and FCP so I second your nomination. But rest assured I'd be able to help you out some with responses. Other Mac users like Ken would also jump in regularly, I'm sure.

Just to let you know you wouldn't be alone in this.

Joe,

I heartily also 2nd your nomination! You can certainly count on my support, too. I am also an avid FCP user (no pun intended) and between us all I'm sure we can -at least- point folks in the right direction.

---
I have yet another forum area suggestion for consideration:

Books & Tech Reference

Thesis: As DV continues its expansive penetration of the consumer, prosumer and professional markets a veritable landslide of books and other reference resources is also sliding into the market. Which ones are worth the effort and expense? Sure, folks could read folks' opinions on amazon and Barnes and Noble. But have you noticed that you rarely see keen, negative opinions for film and video books on these sites? I think our fellow visitors could benefit from a section that discusses these books and also provides a place (outside of the Announcements section) where visitors could post good site references and resources.

p.s. Hey, while writing this, Paul Doss just provided a great example of the kind of posts we would have in such an area!

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1163

Well heck, I'd be happy to give all three of you moderator status.

;-)

Joe pretty much nailed the moderator function on the head, and if Ken and John don't mind assisting with answering queries, then that just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling all over.

I don't anticipate a tidal wave of questions though, and above all else, I don't want to compete with the other FCP resources out there. 2-pop is so massively huge but there is a lot of "noise" there. I really don't want to compete with my good friends at dvcreators.net either, but if y'all see some merit to doing this, I'd be happy to set it up.

The only thing I'm not sure about is how to reward you guys though. I'm just a volunteer myself around here.

I gotta get some forum performance issues solved first, then hopefully as early as tomorrow or the next day we can have this thing up and running if you guys are up for it.

Ken's other forum suggestion is noted... also thinking about adding a "film look" or "film feel" section or something along those lines. Pappas and I were talking about this just yesterday. There are plenty of existing posts to move into it. I still need to write the response I had promised to Joe a week ago.

<<The only thing I'm not sure about is how to reward you guys though.>>

Hmmm...How about footage of the MGD or Bud girls at the next sports event you attend around Austin? That'd do me fine. ;) [Guess I just went on the "N.O.W." black list]

Otherwise...I'm lurking around all the time anyway. Happy to chip in.

<<I don't want to compete with the other FCP resources out there. 2-pop is so massively huge but there is a lot of "noise" there. I really don't want to compete with my good friends at dvcreators.net either, but if y'all see some merit to doing this, I'd be happy to set it up. >>

I tell you what, Chris... I do visit other boards pretty often. But in those I'm usually just passing through. The thing I find so helpful about your forums here is, for one, the nice people (none of that usual digression that's so common) and also the fact that you've had the insight to divide the forums up by the equipment used. Extremely helpful.

John, you're amazing! They just keep on flowing!!!!!!

Sounds interesting in all... When I look at the forum overview
I see a lot of forums with no moderator behind it Chirs. You are
only mentioned behind the last couple of forums. Or is my browser
screwing things up? If you want a PC forum I'd be more than
happy to help out there.... or any other general/xl1/pc forum.

Keep up the good work!

<<The only thing I'm not sure about is how to reward you guys though.>>

None needed. I'm happy to be of help around here and enjoy learning and sharing this stuff witth others.

Chris,

I'm more than happy to help any way I can. I've got a bit of extra time at the moment as my current contract has finished and my NLE system is dead.

Adrian,

Have a job lead in Tokyo, if you're interested. Catch me on MSN Messenger and I'll give you details.

<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Redifer : I would be happy to moderate a Final Cut Pro and/or Mac board. I certainly cannot respond to every query nor am I qualified to do so, but Macs and FCP are a passion of mine. -->>>

Okay Joe, consider this your first unofficial FCP question.

We are mainly an Avid shop since we have two Media Composers and one Xpress (2 NT based, 1 Mac). I've been getting a little bit of pressure to at least look into buying FCP3. One of our editors has it installed in his Mac laptop. The temptation has been quite strong. But now that Avid has come out with the DV Xpress which boasts much the same features as FCP3 plus is transparent to our existing Avids, the temptation has turned into confusion.

As you might know the Avid crowd is as crazed as the FCP crowd but I've yet to meet one person who can give me a valid unbiased comparison. Aside from the fact that the DV Xpress is a few hundred dollars more than FCP, how would you compare them?

Ozzie,

talk about dropping him in the deep end. However I'd like to hear the outcome as my PC sditing days are just about over for a number of reasons.

Answer: Final Cut Pro is more fun! Honestly I've never used an Avid, but I've challenged myself with some pretty rigorous editing demands and I've always been able to make FCP work fine and dandy. I've never wished that it could do "this" or "that" that it doesn't already do. Granted, when they add new features I wonder how I could have lived without them. But Avid must clearly be inferior if even I have not used it ;) What do you think of Avid? Anything you wish it could do that it doesn't?

I think it's just a matter of personal preference.

For a relatively small cost why not get them both and hedge your capabilities? Or donate the loser to an underpriviledged NY film school and write down the expense.

The abcdv.com site has just published a pretty comprehensive feature comparison of the two at:

http://www.abcdv.com/editing/avidxpressdv/xdv3_vs_fcp3.html

This should help you at least survey them from a distance. Perhaps your Avid rep will let you try-out xpressdv for a month free?

As you've noted in the past, one of the practical considerations your shop faces is that of shifting labor pool skills. If you'll have trouble getting FCP3 editors for projects then your decision, at least in the short-term, may be made for you already.

As I am not faced with the production issues that face your shop, and I've never used any Avid system, it would be presumptuous of me to make a recommendation. All I can tell you is that I've just upgraded my FCP3 station from a dual 500MHz G4 to a dual 1GHz G4 and I've now got to get a seat belt for my desk chair. The fluidity of workflow even on long, complex sequences has just improved an order of magnitude.

Ozzie, I think it's hard to find anyone who isn't biased.

Give me some time. I'm digging through some of my old DV magazines. I know I saw a comparison between the two not long ago. If I can find it, I'll let you know the issue.

<<<-- Originally posted by afterburnerDV : Ozzie,

talk about dropping him in the deep end. However I'd like to hear the outcome as my PC sditing days are just about over for a number of reasons. -->>>


That's what you get for volunteering. No one said the questions would have easy answers - if any at all. ;-)

<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Redifer : Answer: Final Cut Pro is more fun! ... What do you think of Avid? Anything you wish it could do that it doesn't? I think it's just a matter of personal preference. -->>>

What has traditionally been AVID's biggest problem is its insistence on rigid - very rigid- hardware standards. It used to be the AVID software came with the hardware and no alterations were allowed if you wanted to maintain AVID support. Although I can understand their reasons for this, it got ridiculous - e.g. I was forced to get and external CD burner because AVID would not change nor support and internal one. I ended up paying for two when I only needed one. (the one it came with and the CD-R I had to buy.)

Second gripe - their compression scheme has always been compatible with nothing. Yes QT can be imported and exported but not an easy feat. Also AVID files are hogs when it comes to drive space.

AVID has seen the error of its ways - strong competition from FCP3 - and has finally brought out DV Express which is the first release that is sold without hardware. They have a list of suggested configurations and minimum standards, but it's as open as AVID has ever been. Is it worth the extra 200 to 300 dollars over FCP3? I don't know. The AVID afficionados tell me - nothing will ever come close to AVID. The FCP3 people tell me it's just a waste of money.

So that's where I am at the moment. I don't need to do anything immediately but it's food for thought. Comaprisons are welcomed.

I'd love to see that DV mag comaparison.

Try this link, which Ken posted in another thread:

http://www.abcdv.com/editing/avidxpressdv/xdv3_vs_fcp3.html

I've been stalling on this a little bit, but we're just about ready to make this so. Joe Redifer, are you still up for assisting to moderate a Mac/FCP forum? And Rob Lohman, any others for a PC forum? Ken Tanaka has graciously agreed to help with overall Community moderation. These are your boards folks, so any & all suggestions/gripes/ideas/complaints/desires are fair game here.

Looks like Ken has already done a little community "moderation"! Thanks, Ken -- you said it better than I would have.....

Ozzie,

I've dug through my back issues of DV magazine...but I can't find it. Either I have the wrong mag in mind, or I'm perhaps going entirely insane. Maybe both. ;)

Oh well...the article on the web mentioned by Ken earlier is a good "checklist" to see the different menus of the two systems.

There IS an article out there...somewhere...that gives a very thorough breakdown on the differences, based on "hands on" experience with both. I know this because it was primarily that article that made me decide on FCP. I'll let you know if it strikes me suddenly just where I saw it.

Does anyone else remember that article?

Ozzie & John,
I couldn't find it in the magazine, either. But I did find...


...a review of the product on DV.com:
http://www.dv.com/magazine/2001/1001/ftr_capria1001.html

...and the DV.com forum for XpressDV:
http://www.dv.com/db_area/community/Forum17/HTML/000022.html

-Ken-

Chris,

I'm still up for the idea and/or the job. If you need me just
contact me and we'll work some things out.

I love it--- an "avid" FCP user! LOL!
Actually I like the idea of having both in a busy post shop. My gosh, the mere thought of losing one gig because the client "required" you to use Brand X versus Y or because the qualifed editor was expert in one but not the other...well, you get the idea.

Going in the other direction, I am about to add Premiere to my shop, not cuz I'm itching to quit using FCP, but for greater compatibility with some of the desktop jocks who cut their teeth on Premiere and also some of its outputting options. And if a project comes along that "requires" Avid XpressDV, well, we'll find the money (and who knows, maybe by then they'll make it competitively priced w/FCP). I'll just have to try to keep from getting it confused with QuarkXPress. :)