Instead of going to Creative Video in the UK, try going to Canon! It's nice that your very first post on this forum is an attack on Canon. Go to the real source first, have Canon tell you that they won't do the up grade on your non-gray market camera then check back with this us here.

A fair point Mike, however I do not have an XL H1S gray or otherwise, I don't think anyone has yet. I just tried to pre-order one, I would be buying from a serious Canon dealer such as the much respected team at Creative Video. They don't (I believe) get involved in the seamier side of camera import, or in the equally seamy business of camera and lens dumping - and nor do I. We would prefer to be seen as legitimate customers rather than potential smugglers. My point was that Canon can stop the gray market any time they chose by presenting a level playing field, These dealers are at the front line of sales and like me they need to know what it is that they are going to be selling. I report what they reluctantly said - reluctantly because they know such a move by Canon will damage their sales.

It may be that you have Canon's ear? And can gather information (relevant to their European market) that we European broadcast cameramen can't. if so maybe you know someone at Canon who can clarify this matter? I do hope so, I for one would be eternally grateful. The bottom line is I am ready to buy - I would rather buy Canon than Sony but a bit of clarity would be very welcome.


Incidentally, a 2/3 chip camera head would be nice, but my guess is that it is very unlikely in this XL price range.


With regards to Sony's EX3 4:2:0 output, have you ever known Sony to put all their eggs into one low end basket? The put something in .... and they take something out. It was ever thus.

I was trying to pre-order an XLH1S with the firmware upgrade to switchable NTSC /PAL. It has never been possible to order a Canon XL or XH series camcorder with the NTSC / PAL switchable upgrade. Dealers are strictly prohibited from offering this service. Canon makes it available only to customers. You need to order the camera, and upon receiving it, send it to your nearest Canon factory service center for the PAL / NTSC upgrade, for which you pay Canon directly.

You cannot purchase the upgrade through a dealer. You can only buy it directly from Canon. That's the way it's always been and that's the way it is now, for all Canon XL / XH series camcorder customers worldwide. Hope this helps,

Just watched an interview with Bob Ott, vice president of Sony Professional. He was promoting the new EX3. One issue during the interview which surprised me was that the SDI out is hobbled with 4:2:0 output and not 422 as one would expect.

Why why why do that??? Totally lame if you ask me.

At least the good old H1 does 422.

In the Sony EX1-forum they asked the same question about the EX1, and got official response that it was 10bit real 4:2:2 that you get out of the EX1.

Best regards,

Well this came straight from Bob Otts mouth, someone is misinformed, I'd hate to believe it was the VP of Sony Pro, stranger things have happened though, LOL

Check it out for yourself at ...

http://www.freshdv.com/

Its in the featured video list.

Personally I think he got it wrong based on other enquiries, next time Bob just sit there and look pretty, let a product management or techy answer the questions LOL

In the Sony EX1-forum they asked the same question about the EX1, and got official response that it was 10bit real 4:2:2 that you get out of the EX1.

Best regards,

It has never been possible to order a Canon XL or XH series camcorder with the NTSC / PAL switchable upgrade. Dealers are strictly prohibited from offering this service. Canon makes it available only to customers. You need to order the camera, and upon receiving it, send it to your nearest Canon factory service center for the PAL / NTSC upgrade, for which you pay Canon directly.

You cannot purchase the upgrade through a dealer. You can only buy it directly from Canon. That's the way it's always been and that's the way it is now, for all Canon XL / XH series camcorder customers worldwide. Hope this helps,

Thank you Chris, yes, I've been following this on this forum and elsewhere. I am aware of this back to Canon stipulation. However, I've also heard that folk have persuaded Canon to part with the firmware on the basis that a camera is not a great item to ship about.

I am prepared to order an XL H1S through a dealer or from the factory with this firmware conversion already installed; and made that clear. However it was at that point that I was told that Canon were no longer offering the NTSC/ PAL option at all. This may be incorrect information, I do hope so, if it is I do wish someone would nail it and correct it.

NTSC/ PAL is what I'm prepared to buy. We know that it exists or has existed, that it is a possible. But once out there on the market, to take it away would not be good news at all, I'm sure we all agree on that?

If you are able to find out the truth of this matter you will be doing a lot of people a big favour. I am told by another London dealer that Canon UK at least are remaining tight lipped about it. You'll be pleased to hear that a number of them are following this thread. I hope Canon is too.

I've been following this on this forumIf that's true then you already have the correct information that you're looking for.

and elsewhere.That's a mistake. With this forum, you don't need "elsewhere."

I've also heard that folk have persuaded Canon to part with the firmwareThat's an entirely different matter. The firmware upgrade that you've heard about Canon providing to end users is *not* the same thing as the PAL / NTSC upgrade.

on the basis that a camera is not a great item to ship about.Nonsense. The reality of the video production business is that cameras are indeed shipped about as a matter of necessity; any serious camera owner knows that and takes the steps required to insure that their gear travels safely and securely.

I am prepared to order an XL H1S through a dealer or from the factory with this firmware conversion already installed; and made that clear.And I have made it clear that this is *not* possible. The factory does not sell direct, and dealers do not have access to the PAL / NTSC firmware upgrade. You need to buy the camera first, and once it is in your possession, you send it to Canon for the PAL / NTSC upgrade. Your dealer is not involved in this process. But I've already explained that.

However it was at that point that I was told that Canon were no longer offering the NTSC/ PAL option at all.You were told wrong. Canon still offers the PAL / NTSC upgrade. It has never been available to dealers. It has been and still is available only to end users.

This may be incorrect information, I do hope so, if it is I do wish someone would nail it and correct it.It's definitely incorrect information. I've nailed it and corrected it in my previous post, but maybe the second time is the charm.

NTSC/ PAL is what I'm prepared to buy.You buy the PAL / NTSC upgrade directly from Canon after you have purchased the camera from an authorized dealer. You send the camera to Canon factory service. It comes back with the PAL / NTSC upgrade. That's the procedure. I don't know how to make it more clear than that.

We know that it exists or has existed, that it is a possible.It still exists, it is possible; you buy the camera from your dealer, then once you have it, you send it to Canon for the upgrade, which you buy directly from them. Canon sends it back to you with the upgrade installed.

But once out there on the market, to take it away would not be good news at all, I'm sure we all agree on that?It has not been taken away. You just don't seem to understand that it was never offered as a dealer option, and that it's up to you to buy the camera first and then send it to Canon for the PAL / NTSC upgrade.

If you are able to find out the truth of this matter you will be doing a lot of people a big favour.A lot of people are *already* aware of the truth. There has been no change to the procedure for obtaining the PAL / NTSC upgrade.

I am told by another London dealer that Canon UK at least are remaining tight lipped about it.It doesn't take very many words to say "nothing has changed."

You'll be pleased to hear that a number of them are following this thread.I already know that.

I hope Canon is too.I guarantee it.

Well this came straight from Bob Otts mouth, someone is misinformed, I'd hate to believe it was the VP of Sony Pro, stranger things have happened though, LOL

Check it out for yourself at ...

http://www.freshdv.com/

Its in the featured video list.

Personally I think he got it wrong based on other enquiries, next time Bob just sit there and look pretty, let a product management or techy answer the questions LOL

Hi Dean, indeed there was a misunderstanding, and confusion, but the EX1 is *officially* reported to be a 10bit 4:2:2 live output.
It's fully expected that it will be the same in the EX3, and that his mistake was just that: a mistake. If you want to read details about it, this is the thread in the EX1 board:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=117419

I hope that clears some things up.
Best regards,

I hear a lot of people comparing the EX3 with the XLH1s. I understand folks are excited about the EX3 using bigger chips and being full-raster.

But, I just hope everyone realizes that the CMOS chips need to be debayered and will therefore lose about 30% of it's native resolution. So any advantage of full-raster sorta gets lost by going CMOS chips, does it not?

In the end you still end up with about 1440 pixels of resolution. The only real advantage being the chip size giving you a slightly shallower depth of field.

And a much bigger hit to your wallet.

I hear a lot of people comparing the EX3 with the XLH1s. I understand folks are excited about the EX3 using bigger chips and being full-raster.

But, I just hope everyone realizes that the CMOS chips need to be debayered and will therefore lose about 30% of it's native resolution. So any advantage of full-raster sorta gets lost by going CMOS chips, does it not?

In the end you still end up with about 1440 pixels of resolution. The only real advantage being the chip size giving you a slightly shallower depth of field.

And a much bigger hit to your wallet.

Aren't you confusing CMOS chips with a Debayer sensor? Are they the same? I think not, but correct me if I'm wrong.
You are also forgetting that a bigger chip also captures more detail and gives better low light performance.

If that's true then you already have the correct information that you're looking for.

That's a mistake. With this forum, you don't need "elsewhere."



HA! I can't tell if Chris is angry or drunk but that was pretty funny. (of course I'm not saying that our fearless leader would be a drunk just that when I type clever things like that I'm usually 3 beers into an hour)

angry or drunkThe timestamp is your clue. Before noon: angry. After noon: drunk. Late night: both.

Thanks for the reply Robert but the EX1 and EX3 have 3 CMOS sensors and do not need to be Debayered as they have no Bayer mask on them. This only applies to single chip colour cameras whether CCD or CMOS, such as RED, SI (that I know you are familiar with), Vision Research Phantoms, Dalsa etc

The EX's are full 1920x1080 x 3 chips......mmmmmmmm chips ;^)

I hear a lot of people comparing the EX3 with the XLH1s. I understand folks are excited about the EX3 using bigger chips and being full-raster.

But, I just hope everyone realizes that the CMOS chips need to be debayered and will therefore lose about 30% of it's native resolution. So any advantage of full-raster sorta gets lost by going CMOS chips, does it not?

In the end you still end up with about 1440 pixels of resolution. The only real advantage being the chip size giving you a slightly shallower depth of field.

And a much bigger hit to your wallet.

I stand corrected.

Too lazy to check every post in this thread if it has been said before, but under "Accessories" for the XL series cameras, there is an EF lens adapter for the DSLR lenses.

Not new, but someone before asked if that was possible. Still doesn't make me want the camera, but I don't think it has been approached.

Come on, Canon!

Canon's EF lens adapter has been an XL series camcorder accessory for many years. The most important thing to know about it is the significant crop factor (7.2 times) which greatly magnifies the field of view of any EF lens when used on an XL series camcorder. For example a 50mm lens will have a field of view equal to a 360mm lens in 35mm still photography terms. In other words, *all* EF lenses become telephoto (or extreme telephoto) when using this adapter.

Man one day they should come up with.. oh wait it's in my signature

I'm sure Canon could build it if they wanted to. The question is - would they make any money doing so?

I think that we will see a Canon 35mm videocamera within 3 - 5 years. The technology is almost there. But I guess it is still expensive. And we are talking about huge amounts of data as well as heat issues. Canon is in a premier position as they have a huge assortment of 35mm glass. Sony has the same position, but all other companies don't have this priviledge.

But once these markets merge, it could also mean that companies like Olympus, Nikon and Pentax will enter the video industry. And I would be the first to buy a Nikon videocamera. Their glass is the best in the world. And my D200 is an amazing camera. As is the new D3.

Exciting times ahead.

In reference to Floris van Eck's post: I don't think it has been proven that Nikon glass is the best in the world. Canon is certainly a contender in that field. At the end of the day, systems from either manufacturer are an excellent choice!

Nikon vs. Canon = Ford vs. Chevy. There is no "best." Both companies produce great products.

Absolutely agreed.

But most people prefer one over the other. I prefer Nikon ultimately. I like their color rendition over Canon's. But that might have more to do with their image processing and chips than with their glass.

I just wanted to let everyone know that, at NAB, for the first time, Canon brought the entire design/engineering team to Vegas. I was very lucky to get to spend a couple of hours with them discussing the next camera (XL). I won't get into details of what was discussed but every valid and resonable upgrade that has been mentioned here was put forth. I also made a point that they should be checking here on DVinfo on a regular basis to find out what people want and any problems or concerns that may come up. I don't expect them to get involved in discussions but I think they will be looking and taking notes.
The bottom line is I think they really got what was being discussed, and hopefully, we see major upgrades on a new camera next year.

Jim Martin
Birns & Sawyer Inc
"At the ArcLight"

Thanks, Jim, and I'm jealous of the info you have but can't share yet (although you did tip your hand a little in that XL will live on!).

I'm NOT under any NDA so of course the company guys I'm acquainted with don't tell me anything non-public. Nevertheless, the course of even casual conversation tells me that the corporate culture alluded to in this old pre-XL H1 post (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=318278&postcount=84) is alive and well.

Absolutely without question, all the camera companies DO read every word about their products on DVINFO. Most choose not to publically engage in discussion/debate but They Are Listening.

Can't wait to see what 18-24 months bring us!

Thanks Jim. Very appreciated.

I also believe that all camera manufacturers read these forums. We know that RED, Panasonic and JVC participate actively and that Sony and Canon don't do that. But that's fine, that's their corporate culture.

I really hope Canon will be back at the top with the XL-H1 successor. I don't care what they will do as long as they deliver. The EX1 and Scarlet really show Canon that they need to step up and claim their place back.

In the Fresh DV interview, the Canon representative said that Canon will stick with HDV for the next three years as they see it as the most comfortable and easy format to work with which is widely accepted. They may be right but I would like to see some options (CF slot next to tape mechanism). Maybe three years is what it takes them to put a 35mm sensor in the camera. If that's the case, I am more happy to wait.

Overall I must say I am very satisfied with the Canon XL-H1. The big shortcomings for me are the LCD/Viewfinder and the absence of a manual HD lens for the camera. I can live with most other things. Ergonomics could be better (weight distribution) but I think I am going to solve that by adding an IDX mounting plate on the back with 2 E10 batteries. They can be stacked so I will add like 1 kilogram to the back of the camera. Will help I guess. Another purchase I am going to do is a proper field monitor (evaluating new Nebtek, Panasonic BT-LH80W and the LSDSGN Carrion B/C). With these upgrade, I think I can enjoy my XL-H1 for another one to two years until Canon drops a bomb on us in the form of a 35mm sensor and EF mount).

What I would like to know:

Will there be a firmware upgrade for the XL-H1? Can you use the new lens on the original XL-H1? I guess one does not work without the other.

... but every valid and resonable upgrade that has been mentioned here was put forth.

Speaking on behalf of current A1/G1 owners who participated in the firmware update wishlist on this site, let's hope that they are ALSO considering providing at the very least, those updates that are certainly possible through a firmware update for us A1/G1 owners.

I'm no technician by any means, but there has got to be at least a few that were voted on that could be implemented (ex: OIS on/off mappable to Custom Key... display active Custom Preset name, etc.)

I may be dreaming.....

Thanks, Jim, and I'm jealous of the info you have but can't share yet (although you did tip your hand a little in that XL will live on!).

I'm NOT under any NDA so of course the company guys I'm acquainted with don't tell me anything non-public. Nevertheless, the course of even casual conversation tells me that the corporate culture alluded to in this old pre-XL H1 post (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=318278&postcount=84) is alive and well.

Absolutely without question, all the camera companies DO read every word about their products on DVINFO. Most choose not to publically engage in discussion/debate but They Are Listening.

Can't wait to see what 18-24 months bring us!

I just supposed we we talking about and XL. Please don't assume anything...And I only know what I passed on to them, not what they will actually do.

Thanks, Jim

Will there be a firmware upgrade for the XL-H1? There have been and most likely will continue to be firmware upgrades for the XL H1, but keep in mind that the vast majority of improvements made to the XL H1S and H1A are not possible for the H1 simply by updating firmware. Most everything going on in the new cameras involves a complete re-working of internal circuitry (such as the audio block, for example).

The best course of action, and indeed the most logical expectation, for any H1 owner interested in the improvements made to the H1S / H1A is to sell the H1 and buy one of the new ones. That is the easiest and most direct upgrade path.


Can you use the new lens on the original XL-H1? I guess one does not work without the other.The new Series III lens is mostly compatible with the original H1. There's only a partial loss of certain functions.

I was privileged enough to be able to work with a brand new XL H1s for three days at NAB.

I was working at the Convergent-Design booth, within the Canon Booth. We were very busy, but I did get to work with the new lens and the new camera.

I am very impressed with the improvements. The lens feels much better, the iris ring is very nice, and you can focus and zoom at the same time.

I like the ability to control how the lens operates via the menu settings, where you can control how much rotation it takes to perform a function, such as zoom.

I also feel that the audio improvements are substantial. I like the idea of having limiters as well as the other improvements, such being able to setup each channel separately in all respects, including the source input.

I understand that many features are not possible on the original XL-H1. But things like different focus speeds (i find the focus speed on my camera to fast, it jumps from 1m to 50m far too quick) should be possible. I also do not see why we would not be able to control the different channels directly.

I think Canon added some nice new features but they are not worth like $4,000 for me (I guess I get a maximum of $5,000 for my XL-H1). That's why I prefer to wait until they announce the next big thing next year.

I don't mean to be a complainer but isn't the whole idea around the XL series that it is modular? Why then, does Canon insist on making improvements to the lens yet they do not sell it as a standalone for those of us with the original XL-H1 to benefit? If they are trying to force our hand and get us to buy the H1s/A then why bother pretending that they want all lenses to be compatible across the series? Just make them a fixed lens if that is what they are going to do to protect their "new" model. Sure maybe one day you can pick it up used but how likely is that in the near future?

We have been asking for a manual lens with HD glass for 2.5 years now and while this new lens isn't exactly that, it may offer some distinct advantages that could be utilized on the H1. Yet, they do not plan on selling it seperate....or conveniently not for a long time. Bummer.

There are no other features of the H1S/A that I can justify shelling out a ton of cash for over my current XLh1, other than the lens...maybe. If it was available as a standalone it might be a good option. As it stands it is a bit of a tease.

Why then, does Canon insist on making improvements to the lens yet they do not sell it as a standalone for those of us with the original XL-H1 to benefit?Because it's *partially* compatible with the original XL H1. Therefore they're not going to sell you something that won't fully work with your camera.

If they are trying to force our hand and get us to buy the H1s/A then why bother pretending that they want all lenses to be compatible across the series?They are indeed compatible, to a degree. The camera bodies are always backward compatible with all older lenses (just be mindful of SD vs. HD). The camera bodies sometimes are not fully forward compatible with newer lenses. That's no different now than it has been in the past.

There are no other features of the H1S/A that I can justify shelling out a ton of cash for over my current XLh1...There's no reason to buy a second camera unless you really need it. However, the proper way to upgrade is to sell the older camera and put that money toward the newer one. That way you're not "shelling out a ton of cash" over your current camera. Besides, your current camera should have paid for itself by now. Any amount of money you get by selling it is pure profit, even if it's only half of what you bought it for. It's that much money off of a new one.

The new camera cost minus whatever amount you get for your old camera is what you're really shelling out. And since it's a business tool, it should pay for itself within three to six months anyway.

of course the idea is to sell your old camera and buy the new one... however even then it doesn't seem worth it. If indeed your camera has paid for itself then why cut into new profits by buying a camera that is nearly identical?

Just wish canon would truly take advantage of the modular design and interchangable lenses. The xlh1s/a really don't feel like an upgrade as much as an update. I didn't buy an xl1s over my xl1 back then either.

Oh well. Just would like more options. It seems be the dream of every xl owner that never gets met and makes the whole concept of modular seem useless.

Peace.

...why cut into new profits by buying a camera that is nearly identical?Your impression is that it is nearly identical. My impression is that it is not.

The xlh1s/a really don't feel like an upgrade as much as an update. I didn't buy an xl1s over my xl1 back then either. I'm not sure how you're clarifying the difference between an upgrade and an update. It is an extensive set of changes relative to the difference between an XL1 and XL1S.

Some XL H1 owners will make the change... some will not. The XL H1 is no longer being sold though (except for existing dealer inventory). There will be a number of folks moving up from the XL2 or older cameras plus others who are new to the XL line. These are the people whom I'm inviting to ask questions about the new H1S and H1A.

Dear Marty,

I feel that the improvements in the XL H1s are substantial, especially in the lens.

But, I do not feel that these improvements have completely obsoleted my XL H1, which will still produce great images.

Let me clarify my opinion. (note "opinion" please.)

I feel going from an XL2 to the XLh1 was un upgrade. I moved from one format to another, superior format that will undoubtedly make a huge difference in image quality that I was experiencing.

I feel moving from the H1 to the H1S/A would be more of an update. It will bring some new features and some better usability but for the most part I expect the image produced will be comparable to the H1...unless the lens turns out to be the bomb and make the H1S the next RED!

Anyway....I never upgraded from my XL1 to an XL1s, or from my DVX100 to the DVX100B as the minor updates that brought new features just weren't worth the hassle of selling my exising equipment and buying new. Would I have like the new features? Sure. But they were not enough to make the move. Too little for all the effort involved.

However when I sold my HVX200 to get the XLh1....that in my mind was an upgrade. I felt the image was far superior and justified the trouble of having to sell/rebuy new equipment. Although both were HD, the H1 just looked like "HDNET" HD and the HVX...well not so much. A great camera but felt more like a medium def format.

These are my opinions and I hope that is understood. If I could have an XLh1S over the H1 without losing money or having to go through the hassle of selling my H1, would I? Sure. There are some nice new features. But I don't really feel any of these warrant the trouble....at least for me.

No harm intended. I am actually happy with the positioning of the H1S/A as it re-affirmed my faith in the original H1. If they had put new sensors or packed it with a better EVF or manaul HD lens or gone solid state with better codec....I do not think I could resist it. In fact, I am a sucker for new cameras....I have a problem buying the latest gear I would say and my wife would agree! So for the H1S to not be enticing to me should speak to it's improvements...or at least to it's lack of "major" changes.

It is however a good camera for Canon to hang on the XL line and a worthy successor to the H1. However it is primarily an update to an already great camera.

Peace again. It's all cool.

XL-H1S. Enough said.

S as in Nikon D70S. As in Mark II, Mark III. They did some nice updates. Like Panasonic updated their HVX-200 to the HVX-200A. If you are buying a new camera, that's very nice. But I don't think it is worth the update. And again, I don't see why they could not give us many of the upgrades through a firmware update. But Canon's not like that. I already knew that. They release a camera, do one or two firmware upgrades (mainly for the wideangle lens) and that's all. They are updating their DSLR firmware continuously. I am sure they can make my servo lens focus slower through firmware, they can add the image profile updates through firmware. Of course they can't update the lens through firmware. But I cannot see why it would not work the same on an old XL-H1 model. Of course I understand that the audio limiters are a hardware thing and cannot be added.

The only big thing for me is the XL-H1A. You get the new update for a very attractive price. $6,000 is very nice for what you get, and you don't have to pay for what most of us will never use. That's good. So I guess if I would be updating, it would be to the XL-H1A. But it would still cost me money.

If I would buy a new camera now I would buy the new Sony, or maybe the XL-H1A. But not the XL-H1S. Its overprices for what you get. The same goes for the JVC updates. Too slow. We are now in a world with progressive sensors, over- and undercranking and we are moving towards tapeless. They did have a good response to the Sony EX1 lens though.

Next year we will see the XL-H2 or a true successor. I can wait another year till Canon takes this great camera to the next level. I can live with most shortcomings of the old model. I got used to them.

To conclude. I think the lens is a real upgrade, not an update anymore. And I also think it could work the same on the old model. With a firmware upgrade. I really cannot see why that would not work.

Its good to be Jim Martin ;^)

Its nice to hear that Canon will be at least listening if not participating in the forum. I have a few thoughts as to some of the features I'd like to see in any new camera.

These cameras EX1/3, H1 etc are now being used a lot for Digital Cinematography so....

Option of DCI frame size output (2048x1080P), how hard can this be? They will need a new sensor so just make it 2048 wide and crop in camera when using HD output. Even if it was just available on the HDSDI port.

At least 3x1/2" sensor full raster (see above) 2048x1080P

World standard camera, 24, 25, 30P etc no sending back to Canon for upgrade.

Solid State recording....well obviously!!!

422 Recording, non proprietary media, up to 100Mbit

3Gb HDSDI capability with 422 and 444 output, all at true 10 bit, backwardly compatible with existing 1.5Gb HDSDI.

Actually with the introduction of 3Gb HDSDI standard theres no reason not to allow 444 ouput as an option, the bandwidth is available.

Cost $3000, ha ha just kidding, the new EX3 is approx. under $13K, so theres one benchmark.

I can dream can't I ;^)

I just wanted to let everyone know that, at NAB, for the first time, Canon brought the entire design/engineering team to Vegas. I was very lucky to get to spend a couple of hours with them discussing the next camera (XL). I won't get into details of what was discussed but every valid and resonable upgrade that has been mentioned here was put forth. I also made a point that they should be checking here on DVinfo on a regular basis to find out what people want and any problems or concerns that may come up. I don't expect them to get involved in discussions but I think they will be looking and taking notes.
The bottom line is I think they really got what was being discussed, and hopefully, we see major upgrades on a new camera next year.

Jim Martin
Birns & Sawyer Inc
"At the ArcLight"

Hey, I know it says that the Magnify can be recorded now on the XL-H1S, but will the new camera allow for use of it without recording it to tape?

Perhaps anyone who went to the Birns and Sawyer presentation can confirm?

What features are intiguing enough to sell the H1 you have and take a loss getting the new one? Seriously....I am asking because I am curious.

Also....what happened with your EX1? Still got it?

Hey Marty,

Hope all is well with you.

The EX1 is owned from a colleague of mine ... I just have access to it whenever I need it :)

I haven't decided what to do in terms of "upgrading" but ...

As for the XL H1S, there are several things I'm interested in:

1. Embedded TC and Audio in the HD-SDI (as I need the TC-out for slaving the Edirol R4-Pro, it would be good to have TC embedded in video)

2. Variable peaking frequency ... could help quite a bit for focusing ...

3. AGC Limiter ... interested in this for some of the event work I do from time to time

4. perfect syncing with my colleagues XH-A1 (he's been a second cam for some recent shoots)

5. The new lens controls and iris ring

6. Being able to record one channel the on-board shotgun mic (when I'm not recording double system sound)

Again, just thinking about the upgrade ... nothing definite at this point.

Did you recently purchase the FU-1000?

Did you recently purchase the FU-1000?

Yes. Picked it up a few weeks ago from the classified section of this site. As I stated above, the jury is still out on it as I have only been able to use it in synthetic environments....not real shoots where the typical focusing problems rear their ugly heads.

By the way, the list of features you mentioned are decent but I can't see them being worth the extra money needed after selling an existing H1. At least not for me. Of course I have almost never had a need for the SDI out anyway.

To a person looking to buy who doesn't own one yet it really adds a ton of new selling points. The lens is probably the biggest one for me. It's a shame Canon insists on not making many of the new options available to the current H1 owners too.

I can confirm for you, it's a choice in the Custom Function menu whether or not to record the focus assist magnification.

It's a shame Canon insists on not making many of the new options available to the current H1 owners too.You still don't seem to understand that most of those new features involve physical design changes and different internal components and therefore are not possible on the first H1 with a simple firmware upgrade. I've said it before, but those options *are* available to the current H1 owners -- the process is to sell your old camera and buy a new one. That's much less expensive, and far more reasonable, than the expectation that an older camera should be physically retro-fitted to become a new one. That just isn't practical, or even possible, with the kinds of differences there are between the XL H1 and the new H1S and H1A.

And I keep thinking that many of them can be made available.

The new lens could and should work on the old XL-H1. I guess they did not change the lens mount and the rest is the lens talking to the body. Focussing speeds and those kind of things are firmware. Otherwise the 6X WIDE shouldn't work on the older XL-H1 either. It worked, after a firmware upgrade. So I don't see why this new lens would change that game.

Variable peaking... should be possible.

Embedded audio in HD-SDI... not possible of course.

Audio limiters... not possible.

Mixing on-board mic with XLR... most likely not possible.

So yes, I still think Canon COULD and SHOULD update our firmware. They do it for their professional DSLR photo camera's as well. Attitudes likes this is what makes RED so special. And if companies like Canon keep acting like this they will lose all their customers to companies that do listen.

I am happy with the updates of the XL-H1 though. The new models address many complaints (although not all) and show that Canon does listen.

You just listed three features out of four that are not upgradeable via firmware. Plus, the number and type of changes that have been made to the new cameras is indeed proof that the manufacturer is listening to their customers.

A firmware upgrade to the H1 won't begin to measure up to the numerous changes of the H1S and H1A. Once again, the most logical upgrade path is to simply sell off and move up. Remember these are business tools which pay for themselves (or at least, that's how they are intended to be used). Not all H1 owners will feel a need to change up, but for those that want to, the upgrade path is obvious.

I am not even talking about firmware here. I'd simply like to see canon actually release good usable components on a regular basis that make the modular design of the xl series more useful. The h1is just about 2.5 years old, they have released 1 additional lens and that is it? The new lens is not for sale, even with limited functionality for us h1 owners unless we buy a new camera, which makes us feel like we should just buy a fixed lens camera to start with. The idea of having a good camera head is we have lens options but that so very limited here it borders frustration.

So I don't expect huge firmware additions but would hope canon could at least make new lenses backward compatible... Even with reduced features ...
at least within the same generation of cameras which the H1 and H1s are.

Thanks

I agree with Marty.

Still no manual HD lens. They could have upgraded the viewfinder easily and it was the major complaint of everyone. Canon made the XL-H1 modular but so far you get very, very limited benefits for buying into this system. The main reason why I still like my XL-H1 so much is ergonomics. I like shoulder mounted cameras and I like having all buttons on the outside. The XL-H1 especially delivers in access to all functions on the outside of the camera. But I wished Canon put more effort in the whole modularity aspect.

I hope they read this and think about what is being said here.

A question about the new cameras going the other way:

We have the 6X lense for the original H1 - I assume that this 6X will work fully in conjunction with the new H1s ?

Yes, of course -- the 6x Wide Angle is fully compatible with the H1S and H1A.

... hope canon could at least make new lenses backward compatible... Even with reduced features ... I thought we already went over this. The new lens *is* backward compatible, with reduced features. Anybody who buys an H1S or H1A will be able to use the new lens on an older H1, with some features disabled.