I know a lot of people recommend wireless mics, but they're a bit too expensive for me at this time. Any reason not to use a small, cheap portable recorder with a clip on mic? Hide the mic on the groom, stick the recorder in his inside coat pocket, and you're ready to go...

For that matter, why not get Sony's new MZB-100 (small portable business recorder with built in stereo microphone), and hide it inside the podium?

Anyone try using one of these yet?

Ya know I was always curious as to how/what mini discs were and how people were incorporating them into wedding videography. Excuse my ignorance but the last I heard of mini discs was several years ago- I thought they phased out, apparently not.

So what are they? Little micro recorders that have an optional lapel mic? How's the quality- and how do you import the audio into your NLE?

<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Ya know I was always curious as to how/what mini discs were and how people were incorporating them into wedding videography. Excuse my ignorance but the last I heard of mini discs was several years ago- I thought they phased out, apparently not.

So what are they? Little micro recorders that have an optional lapel mic? How's the quality- and how do you import the audio into your NLE? -->>>

Mini Discs haven't been phased out, they're still used by a lot of audio professionals, much the way DAT is still used. And Sony and Sharp still make consumer models as an alternative to mp3 players.

As to what they are... minidiscs are a small recordable disc encased in a cartridge. It is a compressed format, and in the early days minidiscs had a reputation for sounding thin and brittle, but those days have long past. On modern players, most people can't tell the difference between audio recorded on a CD and an mini-disc. Minidisc certaintly sounds better than your average mp3...

I personally love the format, and have replaced my tape decks with minidisc recorders.

Some portable models contain mic in jacks, and I figure you can attach a lapel mic to them.

Portable models don't have digital out, so you'll need to import the audio thru the analog jacks or use a stand alone md deck with optical out.

md is, to keep things simple, a lossy format

they are still hyped up, and audio people keep buying them

a nomad mp3 jukebox, or any other device that records directly is better choice bar none, because it can record uncompressed wav files... just make sure if you find something cheaper than a nomad, it does so.. 16bit/48khz is dat quality, and dat's should be gone with minidiscs, but people still pay $800 USED for them...

marantz makes pmd-680 pmd-690 and pmd-670, solid state flash card/ IBM microdrive (4gb) recorders

the 670 is the latest, doesn't go for over $700 anywhere. even though the older 680 just sold for 800+ on ebay

these shouldn't cost this much either, it just doesn't cost that much to mfg... but still better to buy than a new or used dat

if you're using an xlr mic you'll need an adapte with md or mp3 recorders

http://www.core-sound.com/
says their hardware for PDA 24/96 is ready, just waiting on software development

lmk what you go with, or if you find alternatives....

What sort of model/brand minidisc recorder do wedding videographers use when they want to capture the vows. I'm assuming it's got to be of a smaller, more compact design that can fit in the coat pocket of the groom. I'm also assuming that there are portable units like this that have a lav. mic option.

My other main concern is the aspect of capturing it analog. Capturing audio from the camera is great because it's digital to digital- I just can't see going out of my way to capture good audio on the vows only to capture it via analog.

People have used MDs as recorders. Your biggest problem is synchronizing the audio. To synchronize you use a clapboard while your camera is rolling. When you import the audio into your NLE you will be able to see the peak when the clapboard claps.

One of the downsides is that everytime you stop the camera you must resynchronize the MDs and cameras.

<<<-- Originally posted by Alturo Nguyen : md is, to keep things simple, a lossy format

they are still hyped up, and audio people keep buying them

a nomad mp3 jukebox, or any other device that records directly is better choice bar none, because it can record uncompressed wav files... just make sure if you find something cheaper than a nomad, it does so.. 16bit/48khz is dat quality, and dat's should be gone with minidiscs, but people still pay $800 USED for them... -->>>

Yes, MD is a lossy format... but in double blind tests, most people can't tell the difference between audio recorded on CDs and audio recorded on MiniDiscs.

The Nomad is a better choice? Maybe for some people, but not for me. And apparently, not for a lot of other audio professionals. I wouldn't discount DAT either... there an awful lot of feature laden DAT decks aimed at audio Pros. And they do things the Nomad (and other mp3 players for that matter), simply can't do...

But yes, a $2000 DAT deck is probably overkill if you are just taping a wedding.

i have to second the nomad choice, i picked one up after reading an article about it in dv mag, it cost me 250, plus an extra batt for 30 bucks...

i use it to record bands at bars for promotion material, sometimes i can plug into the bands mixing board sometimes i have to hook up a directional to it...

i use to use a sharp mt15 mini disc rec, great little tool with built in gain and digital vu...problems i had was recording a plus hour set, means switching the disc...

also with the nomad i have 20 gigs to play around with and 1394 port to spit it out, so i'm able to get my stuff into my laptop 88x as fast as using the md (1x speed)...

battery life is about 22hours play but more like 10 with rec on constantly, and it has built in vu and gain,

to sum it up what i like most is upload speed, i can start recording very early becuase of disk space an Batt life, finally file quality pcm uncompressed...

i hope this helps

The Nomad now has a firewire jack? I didn't know that... USB transfers were one of the reasons I stayed away from it to begin with.

But have they made it any smaller? The last Nomad I looked at was the size of a CD walkman, too big for my use. Now if Apple would just release an iPod with recording capabilities and mic in...

Robert, what kind if mic do you use with the nomad? Do you need any kind of adapter? Also, how does the sound quality compare with minidisk?

Thx

<<<-- Originally posted by Robert Mann Z. : i have to second the nomad choice, i picked one up after reading an article about it in dv mag, it cost me 250, plus an extra batt for 30 bucks...

i use it to record bands at bars for promotion material, sometimes i can plug into the bands mixing board sometimes i have to hook up a directional to it...

i use to use a sharp mt15 mini disc rec, great little tool with built in gain and digital vu...problems i had was recording a plus hour set, means switching the disc...

also with the nomad i have 20 gigs to play around with and 1394 port to spit it out, so i'm able to get my stuff into my laptop 88x as fast as using the md (1x speed)...

battery life is about 22hours play but more like 10 with rec on constantly, and it has built in vu and gain,

to sum it up what i like most is upload speed, i can start recording very early becuase of disk space an Batt life, finally file quality pcm uncompressed...

i hope this helps -->>>

all types so far shure pg81, shure sm58, senn evo 100 wireless, direct input from a mixxing board...

basically i use xlr > mini jack cables same as my minidisk, the quality on the nomad is much better, this really comes in handy when edting tracks, or applying any effects...

How about if you're not using a mixing board? Can you use an xlr > mini jack cable straight into the nomad? Can you do that with the minidisk too? Do you need a pre-amp if you are not coming from a sound board?

Thx for responding by the way..............


<<<-- Originally posted by Robert Mann Z. : all types so far shure pg81, shure sm58, senn evo 100 wireless, direct input from a mixxing board...

basically i use xlr > mini jack cables same as my minidisk, the quality on the nomad is much better, this really comes in handy when edting tracks, or applying any effects... -->>>

Joe,

In either case you can use a xlr > mini jack cable, i do all the time, with zero issues, the nomad as does my minidisk player have adjustable gain, so i set it and forget it...

i don't use my nomad as my primary source of audio, but it's nice to have....

I'm seriously looking at the nomad, but I'm a little confused. Here is a quote from someone over at the dv.com asking about the nomad:

"I ask because I was researching the Nomad Jukebox as a recorder and found out a lot of people seem to use it for recording music. They all said the same thing- you have to use a pre-amp or "battery box" to record. The info was sort of vague, they all mentioned something to the effect that just hooking up a mic to it was not a good idea, ony if the mic was "pre-amplified". "
Here is a quote from Jay Rose over at the dv.com forums responding to the question:

"Devices like the Nomad look for a signal at -10 dBV. Your AT mic, and most other models, puts out about -50 dBu. This is the same whether the mic is phantom or battery, condenser or dynamic.

So somewhere, you need about 42 dB of gain to get that mic into the Nomad."

That's why I asked about the pre-amp, but you say you go straight into your minidisk and nomad with zero issues.

This is why I'm confused. Am I understanding you correctly? Here is a link to the thread I was refferring to http://www.dv.com/forums/showReplies.jhtml?sid=1&fid=3&tid=78300003

thx

joe,

i will post some samples on my site for you to listen to, i may be doing it wrong, but if it ain't broke i ain't going to fix it...

give me some time...

Cool, thx Robert, I'd appreciate that.........

How long of a recording can you get on a 20Gig Nomad. I noticed the 60Gig version does not have a FireWire interface. Hopefully in the near future it will =)

gary,

you will proabably run out of battery before disk space even in 48 uncompressed mode you get about 30min per 320megs give or take some, need more space you can always rec in 44 resampling mode

double post

I understand the Nomad argument but for recording wedding vows, the smaller-than-a-deck-of-cards Sony works very well for me. Even running the recorder at quality level 2 is more than good enough for the spoken word.

which sony "smaller than a deck of cards" are you referring to?

The Sony MD recorder is the model MZG-750. Cost about $300+ at Circuit City about 18 months ago IIRC. Maybe a little less. Has the rechargable NiMh battery that lasts 2-3 hours with no worries.

I just connect it up, leave it in AGC and end up with a good
voice recording for weddings.

I do set levels manually when I have time and the control to do something with it. But I almost always feed it with a mixer where I can manage levels. That way, the inability to change levels on the recorder while recording doesn't bother me a bit.

I normally use a $45 (B&H) Sony lav ( ECM-T145 ) with the mini-disk for my wireless backup during weddings.

Right now I'm using the MD recorder for a 2.5 hour voice over I have to do on a training tape on the Sherline lathe. I have a AT 4033SE studio microphone feeding into a Shure 267 mono mixer and that feeds into the MD player. As long as I can feed the signal into the MD, it works very well. I've yet to have a failure with it.

For voice, I cannot hear any diference between it and recording on my PD150.

I think it is OK for music too, but probably not as good as a camera or a higher-end recorder. However Jay Rose claims that the MD recorder is as good or better than even the high-end Sony professional camcorders.

I haven't maid direct comparison of DV sound and MD but have in mind that MD is dedicated only to sound while the DV shares audio and video tracks.

Although compressed format I also thinnk sound quality of MD is very high - simillar to DAT even for high end music (not only for voices as some might think). Main diference would be more likely made by the source - quality of the mic, mixer, etc.

I came up something and wonder if anybody tried it.

When using lavalier mic (which is usualy mono) on the groom how about recording on the MD in mono. You'll get double lenght on single MD (74min stereo -> 148 mono) and you don't lose anything as the mic is mono. Same applies when feeding the MD from mono mixer or you have only single chanel used on a mixer.

Anyway the dounside is you have to record the single track down to computer in real time (1x speed) via sound card or USB audio interface.

On my Sony, the mono mode will record for about 6 hours.

DV sound is recorded just fine. The sharing is not an issue as they are separate data sets. The problem is always the analog front ends.

1X transfer is not a problem. One computer can capture it while I work on one of the others.

>>I normally use a $45 (B&H) Sony lav
>> ( ECM-T145 ) with the mini-disk for
>>my wireless backup during weddings.

How sensitive is this Mic? Since it has it's own power, can you plug it in directly to the portable MD recorder, and hide the MD recorder on the groom?

If so, where's the best place to clip the mic on the groom?

Wouldn't it be better to clip it to the officiate? The minister or priest would certainly be my first choice.

On the lapel on the groom on the side the bride stands on. That way you get every whisper between the two...However...you may need to edit OUT some audio in post ;-)

<<<-- Originally posted by Nathan Gifford : On the lapel on the groom on the side the bride stands on. That way you get every whisper between the two...However...you may need to edit OUT some audio in post ;-) -->>>

LOL! I once had to edit out an exposed nipple...

^_^

Mike,
What's the mode you record 6 hours on? Is it LP4?

For the native MD format (normal speed) which is the highest quality max duration is 80/160 min stereo/mono.

LP2 $ LP4 are more compressed formats simillar to MP3 so the quality degradates. For voice should be OK though.

Regards, Bogdan

Could a model like this be used for weddings?

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=b&qp=00537&bookmark=bookmark_0&oid=69335&catoid=-8362

<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Could a model like this be used for weddings?

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=b&qp=00537&bookmark=bookmark_0&oid=69335&catoid=-8362 -->>>

No, I don't believe that particular model has a mic in.

I just ordered the Sony MZB-100 Business Recorder. It has a mic-in, but also has it's own built in stereo mic. I'll test it and let you guys know how it does....

The mode is labeled 'Mono.'

I've never had a ceremony over 1 hour long so I've never used it in a wedding in other than the prime stereo mode.

I have been doing some investigation into a MD recorder for the getting-very-close trip to Kenya for the migration. I like the new Sharp MD-DR480, actually a Sharp Japan model but available in the US, because it has 24 bit/48kHz sampling. Also looking at the Sony MZNF810 model. However, I am a little confused about getting the audio out of the MD recorder and into my PC when I get home.

I have read a few articles on various audio sites stating that the transfer is one way, something to do with copyright protection, and there is no way to get the audio from the MD back into the PC with these cheaper, consumer MD recorders. A quote from one of the articles stated

"Despite extensive filtering, the headphone leads can still have high-frequency switching signals on them, and these often feed back into microphone leads and cause havoc in mixers and the like. Also, the phone output can't easily be used as a line output for connecting to hi-fi gear, again because there isn't a conventional audio signal on it."

Of course, he is talking about hi-fi and not PC but I take it you are not having any similar problems with your transfers. A little help for the New Boot would be appreciated. How do you transfer audio from the MD into the PC? Through the headphone out jack?

Hi there,
All of the MDs these days have sample rate convertor 32/44.1/48 when recording. The output though is 44.1kHz only.

Consumer models are OK but if you want higher speed download to the PC you will look for Net MD. This means that using software and USB cable you can download to PC (rip MDs) at high speed.

If you use the analog output usually nowdays portables share phones/line out so there are no major compability problems.

If you made the MD (analog recording from mic, mixer, etc.) than you can use also digital optical connection to record to other digital medea (including PC)

Bogdan,

I am reading the new Sony MZNF810 NetMD MDs manual. Per the manual, NetMD is only for transferring audio data from the PC to the MD through a USB cable and not the other way around. The only audio data that can be transferred back from the MD is data that was originally downloaded from the PC to the MD.

Also, the only digital mini-jack I see on the Sony is for digital input. The only output is a stereo mini-jack.

Can you tell me which MD you know that allows the digital transfer out of the MD to the PC.

if I'm not mistaken, none of the consumer MD's will allow digital transfer to a PC. I think this was covered earlier. Sony is paranoid of copyright violation so you have to capture the sound through some analog input.

Sorry for misleading you for the digital out. Only portables to second or thirdgeneration had both digital in/out. Their size was also bigger. Now all portables have digital in only.

You need MD deck at your home to have the digital out. Usually they are cheaper than the portable but it's extra expence of coarse.

I personaly was interested in Net MD but didn't buy till now so can't tell you more. If you find that information that's too bad you can't rip! I thought I read some other place you can rip. Check higher model. In Japan Sony don't sell 810 - there is only N910, N1 and N10 wich are the top models for the last 2-3 years.
N1 was the first Net MD and have USB cradle. N10 is even smaller but Sony decided to build in lithium ion battery which you can't exchange. And this years model is N910 which is back with the NiMH battery but doesn't have cradle. It has USB mini port.

Hope that helps.