I am getting ready to use the AZDEN 500UDR receiver with the MA-200 and would like to hear the pros and cons of how to connect it. I see only mention of using the camera mic as stereo on audio 1 and using the wireless mic on either of both of audio 2. For simplicity, I am thinking about using only one channel of the camera mic and running the wireless mic input into the other.
When the wireless mic is not in use it would be disconnected and the camera would be recording both channels of audio 1 from the camera mic.
If there is a good reason not to do this, what are the advantages/disadvantages of splitting the wireless mic cable to fee both channels of audio 2.
Does anyone have any other comments about how to best use a wireless receiver with the XL1s (and MA-200)?

I don't have the MA-200. The disadvantage to 4 channel recording is the reduction of audio resolution. Resolution drops from 16 bit to 12.

Can you notice it? Yes, but you will have to strain a bit (or actually 4 bits :-) to hear it. Certainly in some soft apps requiring bandwidth you may notice it.

What are the advantages? I like using 4 channel to mix stereo audio from the main mic with the wireless. I think it is a really neat way to go.

Nathan Gifford

Thanks Nathan. I was hoping to avoid the 12 bit sound issue as I was concerned that this both complicated the recording of audio and resulted in a lower sound quality. Apparently the sound quality may not be noticeable in the wedding work I do mostly.

I've been playing around with the Xl1s setup as well as the MA-200 and wireless receiver and come to the following conclusions.
1. It is NOT POSSIBLE to use one channel of audio 1 (from the camera mic) and another channel of audio 1 (from the AZDEN receiver) without an awkward wiring setup using the alternate inputs on the camera. I had hoped that it might be as simple of connecting the MA-200 RCA jack to one of the camera inputs for Audio 1. I see now that this is not a simple "override" like on some camera, but an "either/or" set in the menu.
2. If using only the wireless mic input (in addition to the camera mic), it is simpler to plug into the Audio 1 input on the MA-200 and connect the Audio 1 out to the Xl1s Audio 2 input. This avoids the extra set of cables. However, it makes it necessary to pay closer attention to the "backwards" setup.
3. I decided to feed only one channed of Audio 2 from the wireless mic as splitting the signal probably weakens it and give nto added benefit.
4. And the one thing which drive me nuts before I focused on it -- understanding the importance of the Monitor button on the Xl1s. I overlooked the Audio 2 and Mix positions and couldn't figure out why I couldn't hear the wireless signal. VERY important for newbies (like me) to fully inderstand the features of this camera which may be very different from anything we endountered before.
-- Arlen Bell

I feed the stereo mic in on their normal connections. AGC can be on or off depending on conditions. I feed the wireless in on either the left or right channel of Audio 2. That seems to work great.

You are right about the audio monitor button. You realize there are three settings 1, 2, and mix. Mix is good for listening to all four channels as a 'sanity check.' Normally, I do levels on the wireless first, then switch to mix so I can hear all four channels. BTW in mix mode you can select which channels you hear more of in the monitor circuit, it does not affect the levels recorded to tape.

The other important thing is to get a good set of headphones. It gives you the ability to hear quality features while recording. Junky headsets just will not do. A lot of people like the Sony 7506.

Nathan Gifford

just bought the MA200 adapter for my XL1S, connected a seinheiser xlr wireless receiver to audio 1 but only to one channel left or right, is there any way to connect xlr jack to both right and left so audio will appear on both?is there such an adapter or cable to do this?

Try an RCA "Y" adapter, 1-female to 2 male. YOuc an find them at Radio Shack and other fine audio accesory stores. Or you could make the adjustment in post when editing.

It would be nice if Canon put a Stereo/Mono switch on the adapter like Beachtek does. In the mono position, both channels are fed the same signal.

Ed Frazier

FWIW: There is an option on the analog audio output. One can send the left (or right) to the left and right output jacks.

I suspect that there could be an issue with the switch in that it would be too easy to flip it accidently and mess up the captured sound when recording 2 channels.

Easy to pan the left to left and right in post

the y adapter works great- exellent audio on both channels, thanks

Ho do you pan to L/R in post...I am using Premiere 5.1 and when I pan (the blue band) it makes no difference...if there is no left audio then panning will produce silence.

I was wanting to pan an effect across from one speaker to the other, but movein the blue band produced no effect whatsoever.

???

TIA

D

When I was in school they were using 5.1 and I was never able to figure out how to consistently pan, sometimes it would work and other times nothing. Now that I'm finally out I bought 6.0. panning is a piece of cake, it has never failed me yet.

Right...thanks for that.

Not much help if it's a hit and miss affair. I'm picking up my new machine on Monday and it has P6.0, then I can upgrade the other one.

Thanks for the reply...it's nice to know that I'm not going senile after all!

Cheers

Donald

PS was the transition from P5.1 to P6.0 reasonably pain-free?

Yeah reasonably, the first few projects I did in it threw me for a loop, I kept asking myself "why did they change that?" and basically complaining about things that I couldn't just do the way I was used to. For example filters felt extremely awkward at first, but now I like it even more. It just takes getting used to.

Just used the great Studio 1 XLR adapter with my GL1 and I love it. With a sennheiser ME66 I got superb sound, controls, flexability. And it'll do me when I pick up an XL1s this winter. Worth a look for $215.

Hi All,

Does the MA-200 really give a better balance on your camera? I'll never be using the XLR inputs so 4 of them is useless.. $800AUD is a high price to play for a shoulder mount, id rather spend the money on a Glidecam Pro 4000 with body pod!

Regards,

The MA-100 provides much the same shoulder mount at a much lower price -- it has two XLR inputs. If you're not interested in the XLR inputs, there are probably better options.
The MA-100 does, however, make the camera more comfortable, IMHO.

Vic

Hi all,

Im about to dive into the world of XL1s retiring my VX2000 as my main wedding video camera. There are a few questions that I'd like to find answers to and I would appreciate your help or advice:

1. The MA200 attachment seems larger than the MA100, this might have a positive impact on balancing the camera onto the entire shoulder rather than sitting in front of your shoulder blade. Is there much difference between the MA100 and MA 200?

2. Battery life is a concern for me, Ive enjoyed great battery life my VX2000, how long will a BP-930 last in average use? If I put two batteries into the CH-910 holder does it effective double the time? (might be a silly question but i havent had the chance to fully test the XL1s as yet).

3. I've heard that Lexan batteries claim up to 6 hours, are they available for purchase in Australia?

4. The HC-4100 hard case seems attractive, I've never seen one but seen pictures of it. Is there much space to put accesories into this box? Is it sealed on the edges to prevent dust/sand/water from entering the box?

5. I feel that the focus ring built onto the lens is not responsive at all. Or at least not as responsive as my VX2000. Do you agree?

6. How durable is the XL1s?

I'd appreciate your comments and opinions on this kit.

Cheers,

i know the answer to one of your questions.
The XL1S is very durable if you handle her
good! She's made of an magnesium alloy
which is very strong. Just handle it good and
have canon clean her once in a while and your
set!

Never having used the VX2000, I can't answer your questions on the relative merits of the two cameras, but I might be able to help with your MA-200 and battery questions.

<1. The MA200 attachment seems larger than the MA100, this might have a positive impact on balancing the camera onto the entire shoulder rather than sitting in front of your shoulder blade. Is there much difference between the MA100 and MA 200?>

Yes, it is larger than the MA-100 and should be more comfortable to use since it does rest on top of your shoulder. But... it does not place a significant proportion of the camera weight on your shoulder. Most of the weight of the XL1 must still be carried by the arms. The MA-200 does have a sliding arm arrangement that will allow attached items (CH-910, wireless receiver, etc.) to be moved back several inches to alter the balance somewhat. This was not a feature of the MA-100. Check the XL1S Info section of www.DVInfo.net for other camera support options. Look in the Articles section.

I purchased the MA-200 for the 4 XLR inputs and am disappointed to learn that they can only be used with mic level inputs, even though the camera can be set to receive line levels through Audio 1 and 2. To receive line level signals you have to bypass the MA-100/200 and plug directly into the RCA jacks or closely monitor your audio levels going into the MA-100/200.

<2. Battery life is a concern for me, Ive enjoyed great battery life my VX2000, how long will a BP-930 last in average use? If I put two batteries into the CH-910 holder does it effective double the time? (might be a silly question but i havent had the chance to fully test the XL1s as yet).>

I haven't used the BP930 that much but I suspect you should get about 1 hr of constant record time. I have used the BP945 and am getting 2+ hours of recording time. That has been constant record mode with a pause only to change tapes. With that much battery life, I haven't yet needed to test the CH910 so can't comment on your other question. The CH910 literature indicates that current is drawn from both batteries at the same time rather than sequentially. Don't know what difference that makes, but just thought I'd pass it along.

Regards,
Ed Frazier

G'day from WA

I purchased an MA-200 for my XL1s and at this stage I have not used the XLR inputs but I plan to and I will let you know they go.

The shoulder pad is not the best as the camera does tend to slide around on the shoulder but it is better that the shoulder pad that is supplied with the camera.

cheers

Greenday

If you need a good, solid shoulder support for the XL1, consider Harold Greene's SP7-Pro, in the Support section of the Articles Menu on the XL1 Watchdog. I can tell you from experience that it kicks much butt. Check it out,

Do they sell to international buyers? Im in Australia!

Send Harold an e-mail and ask him. I'm trying to get Harold together with Tom McKay so that VariZoom can sell his SP7-Pro through any VariZoom dealer worldwide. Try contacting my mate Paul Hackett in Canberra, he might be able to import one. The trouble as you know is the ridiculous expense of shipping anything down there.

hi,
Can I use the audio adapter MA-200 (4 xlr +BNC) for the XL 1 ??? or is it only for the new xl1s ?

thanks
akram

Yes, the MA200 will work with either model.

Please read my page on the Watchdog called "The XL1S Skinny." All camera bodies, lenses and accessories are completely interchangeable between the XL1 and XL1S. Hope this helps,

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : Please read my page on the Watchdog called "The XL1S Skinny." All camera bodies, lenses and accessories are completely interchangeable between the XL1 and XL1S. Hope this helps, -->>>


a friend told me that I can not use the 4 xlr inputs of the MA-200 with the XL1 !!!

<< a friend told me that I can not use the 4 xlr inputs of the MA-200 with the XL1 ! >>

Not true. You *can* use all four XLR inputs on the MA-200 with the XL1. See the Articles section of the Watchdog, look under Audio for an Introduction and Four-Part Guide to XL1 Audio. Hope this helps,

I am thinking about buying the MA200 audio adapter for my XL1s.
One thing mystifies me - from the photos that I have seen - the two RCA connectors from the MA200 are seen plugged into the audio 1 port at the rear of the camera. How is that going to give me four channels of sound?

Is the actual hookup - one wire to audio 1 and the other to audio 2 at the side?? Again, how is that going to give me four channels of sound?

What am I missing here?

Two more RCA cables (included) connect between a pair of RCA jacks on the right side of the MA200 and the pair of RCA "Audio 2" input jacks on the right side of the XL1 handle. These extra cables are very often eliminated from the product photos but they are indeed included. Hope this helps,

Thanks Chris - that explains that! (You ARE burning midnight oil!)

Next question - what is the power mini-plug used for? Is that phantom power for the mic inputs? Or power-in from an additional battery or two?

I have also noticed that I have to convert the 12 bit audio to 16 bit in Premiere (for it to play correctly). I am trying to decide whether to go with a field-mixer or the MA200. I prefer editable audio lines so I am leaning toward the MA200. I supposed I could get both.

The one thing that bothers me with using the camera as a sound mixer is that Audio 1 channels are not so much mixed as balanced (turning one up turns the other down).

I wonder if there is room on and in the MA200 to add a couple volume controls for channels 1 & 2.

<<<-- Originally posted by Randall3 : Next question - what is the power mini-plug used for? Is that phantom power for the mic inputs? Or power-in from an additional battery or two?. -->>>

The power cable is strictly to provide power to the active electronics inside the MA-200. It does not provide phantom power.

Audio 1 has a ganged level and a balance control. Audio 2 has individual level controls.

To all MA-200 users,

When considering buying a case for your XL1S with the MA-200 attached, beware of those cables sticking out the side. Don't think they'll last too long going in and out a tight fitting bag, unless you're always watching it.

Just recently bought the MA200 adapter for my XL1, everything looks fine and seems to be working, but I have a few questions:

Does the 5V DC input drain the onboard battery quicker? If so does any one know how much?

I have a Sennheiser wireless receiver but how are people attaching it to this adapter? At the moment I am just clipping it to the extra metal bit, which If I were to suddenly move the camera, or somebody walks into it i feel that it might fall off. Any suggestions on how to secure the receiver?

Thanks,

Ed Smith

P.S.
I never released that the left and right audio outputs on the back of the camera were also inputs (I think they are described as audio 1). You learn things everyday with this camera, it just amazes me!!!

Given that posts were lost. The answer is that the MA-100 (and no doubt the MA-200) present a very small battery drain and should not reuslt in a significant reduction in available run time.

I, and a number of people have used the heavy duty velcro-like plastic stuff to attached items to the vertical flange on the MA-100. Can't say whether or not it is adequate for the Sennheiser wireless unit.

I mount my Sennheiser SK100 receiver to the side of the handle on top of the cam, on the tape door side (NOT ON THE TAPE DOOR!!!). The only time I have knocked it off is when I shove my hand through the handle.

Nathan Gifford

Thanks for the posts again.

I went up in the loft to find the box for the reciever, and found that those guys at Sennheiser have kindly supplied me with heavy duty plastic velcro, how kind. I have now attached this to the metal plate on the MA200, and it ain't going no where.

Thanks again,

Ed Smith

I seem to remenber reading some place that you can attach your wireless receiver to the MA-200. How is this done. My current receiver can attach with a clip or shoe mount. I'm considering buying the Nebtek monitor, which means I need another way to mount my receiver.

Go to the XL1 > Watchdog Articles Menu > Microphones & Audio. There's an article about this topic using the MA-100.

The MA-200 is even easier than the MA-100. I've mounted an Azden 400 receiver with no problems, and it's hard to imagine a heavier or bulkier wireless receiver :-(. I don't have the additional battery holders, so just slide the receiver, onto the mounting plate for the battery holders, and use Velcro(tm) to keep it in place. The little clip thing on the left of the plate helps stabilize it further.

I'm using the Azden SGM-2X with my XL1s via the MA-200. The resulting audio, even at full gain, is much too low to be of any use. I tried several dynamic studio mic's with the MA-200 with the same results. Yes, the power connecter is attached and yes I've switched to the Audio 1 inputs. What am I missing?

Set the internal menu to mic, your using a mic. This is the menu that appears in your viewfinder. Set the input switch to Audio 1. The input switch is on the side of the camera. This tell the camera where to look for the audio. Audio 1 is the RCA jacks. For a more detailed set of instructions refer to pages 52 and 26 in the XL1 instruction manual. If your mic requires a battery, double check that the battery is good. I've bought my share of dead batteries from mass merchants (Walmart).

Jeff

Thanks for the reply Jeff. Oh it turned out to be my own stupidity. I thought I had set it on Mic input, but when I checked again it was Line Level. I guess I forgot to punch the wheel when I selected it.

I am a bit disappointed through. The S/N ratio of the MA-200 is not all that great. I made up a shorted XLR plug to see if it was the mic or the MA-200 and it was the MA-200 (or MA-200 / XL1A combination). You'd think for that much money they could have done a better job of it.

If you can try a different mic. I use the MA-200 and I'm very happy with the S/N ratio and it's overall performence. I use the 16bit/48Khz mode. Are you using 12 bit?

Jeff

What noise floor are you measuring with the MA200 installed?

Are you measuring it from AGC mode recording or manual gain recording?

I'm just about to buy myself an XL1s and will need XLR inputs. I've done what research I can over the net, but would still like to hear from the users what they think about the two MAs.

Basically I need two XLR inputs and I need them to be reliable, I have read about noice on the MA100 (this forum) and it made me a bit wary about getting it. Has this problem been fixed with the MA 200?

Are there any other issues with either of these options and are there any third party gear that I should contemplate getting instead?

Grateful for any replies.

Regards
Jon

The MA-100 has a reasonably low noise floor. I measured as follow on my MA-100. But like all electronics there may be a noisy unit ot two in the wild.

With the MA-100 connected to Audio 2, MIC setting, and nothing connected to the MA-100, the XL1 in 12-bit/2 channel mode, and manual gain set to maximum, the residual noise floor in a firewire capture to .WAV file is about -60 dB relative to a saturated square wave (or -57 dB relative to a maximum amplitude sine wave).

In AGC mode, MIC input (e.g., max gain with no input signal), and 16-bit audio mode, the noise floor with the MA-100 connected to auido 1, and nothing connected to the MA-100 is about -67 dB relative to a maximum amplitude sine wave.

At that those level it is possible to pick up additional noise if you are oprerating in an electrically noisy environment. After all, -60 dB relative to the XL1 input sensitivity amounts to about a micro-volt equivalent noise input at the mic jack.

I think you either love the MA-100/200 or you hate. I use the MA-200 and I have zero complaints with it. I like the position of the camera (w/MA-200) on my shoulder and I find it very comfortable. I also use the LightWave http://www.lightwavesystems.com/ SI-XL1 System Isolator which move the viewfinder forward about 2.5 inches and gives it much better balance and aids in the improved comfort level.

The audio from the MA-200 is the same, no complaints. I use good quality audio components and I've had zero problems with the noise level. Alternatives to the Canon units are Beachtex http://www.beachtek.com/ Studio 1 http://www.studio1productions.com/ and Sound Devices http://www.sounddevices.com/index.html I use the Sound Devices pre-amp because I need phantom power for my mics. If you search here you'll find mixed reviews of the Beachtex and Studio 1 products also. Why the mixed reviews? I think because of the many variables involved in evauluating the audio components. Different mics, cables, configuratons, enviorments etc. No two systems and locations are alike.

Jeff

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