Hey all,

Was thinking of purchasing a G2 100 series lav kit, but after listening to some samples online, it seems pretty clear that I'd want to upgrade to a better sounding mic than what comes standard.

After poring over Dan Brockett's wireless lav shootout, I've decided that the COS-11x sounds the best to my ears. Since the COS-11D appears to be a newer model with RF noise protection, I was thinking of going with that. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble figuring out how to connect it to the G2 system.

Here was what I was planning to purchase:

Sennheiser | Evolution G2 100 Series - UHF | EW112PG2 - A | B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/324242-REG/Sennheiser_EW112PG2_A_Evolution_G2_100_Series.html)
Sanken | COS-11D Omnidirectional Lavalier | COS-11DPT-BK | B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/595313-REG/Sanken_COS_11DPT_BK_COS_11D_Omnidirectional_Lavalier_Microphone.html)
Sennheiser | Locking 1/8" (3.5mm) Connector | 99112 | B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/426819-REG/Sennheiser_99112_Locking_1_8_3_5mm_Connector.html)
Sennheiser | MZA 900 P - In-Line Preamplifier | MZA900P | B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/387918-REG/Sennheiser_MZA900P_MZA_900_P_.html)

Does this look about right? I'm thinking I can just solder the lav directly to the 1/8" connector for use with the G2 wireless transmitter.

The MZA 900 P would be for when I want use the lav wired. Plug in my custom wired lav to the MZA 900 P and then into a standard XLR input with phantom power.

Just a couple of questions:

1) Will this work, or do I need some additional circuitry in between the lav and transmitter?
2) Would it make sense to go with the COS-11D or should I stick with the COS-11X?
3) When using the lav wired, would I need any other gear to ensure that I'm getting a balanced connection with my recording device (i.e. If I ran another 20' of XLR cable from the lav would that 20' technically be balanced)?

Thanks everyone,

-Nate

It's sometimes not as simple as just soldering a couple of wires, there may need to be a capacitor or resistor in the path like with some of the Lectros. The COS-11 is probably available terminated with a locking mini TRS, saving you the trouble and aggravation. (maybe not from B&H but Trew Audio or other specialty shop could probably match the B&H price)
Research before soldering as you may damage the mic if wired improperly.

Thanks, Rick. I took your advice and did some searching for a schematic. Looks like I should be able to wire things up just fine without any extra resistance.

SANKEN MICROPHONE CO .,LTD. | Q & A [ For SENNHEISER ] (http://www.sanken-mic.com/en/qanda/index.cfm/11.25)

Now I'm curious, whether I should wire the lav to mic level or line level (both are an option since I'm using a stereo plug). Any advice?

Also, if anyone has experience with the COS-11D (versus the COS-11X), I'd appreciate the input.

My Sanken Cos-11x is set up with a TRS connector (done turn-key by Trew Audio and shipped same-day) to plug straight into my Sennheiser G2 transmitter. Works fine together. Great sound.

I'm also using the same Cos-11x with my Sony PCM-D50 for voice-over. Again the sound is surprisingly good.

John

Hi Nate,

I do just what you are trying to with my gear. I have Sony ECM-77's, Senn MKE-2's, and Countryman e6i's all wired for the G2 packs, and also use the MZA900p for use on XLR. My only problem was with the e6i. The MZA doesn't produce as much voltage for the mic as the G2 pack does, (4V vs 7V IIRC) so the e6i doesn't work when connected to the MZA. Countryman was not only no help, but rather rude about it to boot. nice. I don't have a Sanken to try, but I'm 2 for 3 so the odds are in your favor. ;-)

So...
1-yes with the exception noted above. good luck.
2-by cos-11x vs cos-11D, are you asking to buy the pigtail or XLR version? they both come both ways...i'd get it without a connector and put the locking 3.5mm on it myself, or get the premade one from Trew. It needs to wire to the mic input on the tip of the 3.5, mainly because it's the right level input-but also because there is no voltage for the mic on the line input at the ring...DONT connect both. I think I actually grounded the line input on the plug.
3-the MZA900p is a balanced output, and does require phantom. I've had my MKE-2's on the MZA, and as much as 1000' of XLR between it and a fader. Works fine...

You guys are way braver than me. I don't think I'd attempt to terminate a wire that small myself. I'd just get Trew or Gotham to do it.

Greg -- The COS-11D supposedly differs in its ability to handle RF noise (not just what type of end its terminated with). You can see the press release here:

BriefingRoom on Electronic Musician Sanken Partners With Lectrosonics For New COS-11D Lavalier Microphone (http://blog.emusician.com/briefingroom/2009/01/05/sanken-partners-with-lectrosonics-for-new-cos-11d-lavalier-microphone/)

Maybe it just has better shielding? I'm expecting the sound quality shouldn't be any different.

Thanks everyone for the input. Very helpful.

I drop a question here since it is about Cos11 and Sennheiser G2 (that I own and use regularly):

don't you find the microphone too sensitive? I have problems with cloth and cable noise most of the times I have to hide it. I use the rubber mount, double sided tape, broadcast loop, whatever i do i can never really be 100% sure that I won't have problems.
I'm quite convinced that the problem is not how I rig the lav. Sometimes i can perfectly hear the noise of the arms moving and touching the torso of a person, that has nothing to do with how I rig it.
A few days ago i listened to a Cos11 wired to a Lectrosonic, a simple piece of tape and the rubber mount under a T-shirt. Same headphone I use (Sony MDR 7506) and a SD 442 mixer (I use a 302). Nearly no noise! So I'm wondering: is it possible that the mic behaves differently depending on wich transmitter it is wired to? May be depends on the power supply?

PS I have two sets of wireless behaving the same way so there is no chance that I have a defective unit..

The G2 input is a little on the sensitive side. The MKE2 comes in a "ew gold" version specifically for the G2, is has a slightly reduced output compared to a regular MKE2. Have you tried reducing the sensitivity in the menus of the G2 tx? That may help, if you can reduce it enough-the 100's don't have a big adjustment range.

Mmh I tried but with not so much luck. When it comes to TX sensitivity I think that it is already too late. It is signal I guess, you can lower it before and raise it later (RX af out or at mixer's gain or fader) but you get what the capsule has got.
may be it is just the marriage COS11 EW100 that doesn't work. I should try with another mic, I used to like the open sound of the Sankens but sometimes it is really just too much.

My Sanken Cos-11x is set up with a TRS connector (done turn-key by Trew Audio and shipped same-day) to plug straight into my Sennheiser G2 transmitter. Works fine together. Great sound.

Hi John,

I was thinking about getting a Sanken Cos-11x/d, but I would not want to fiddle with the wires...

Looking at the detail shots for the Cos-11x (http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=876#detail), it looks like the default connector is an XLR?

Would I want to contact Trew Audio and ask them to modify the cable to plug directly into my G2 transmitter? Or, should I get an XLR to stereo mini adapter?

I am guessing it would be best to get them to modify the cable, vs having an adapter.

Not to hijack thread, but I would love some advice. :)

Also, is the "d" or "x" a better buy?

Thanks!
Micky

I'm sure Trew can sell you a COS-11 that will plug right into the G2 transmitter. They'd also be the one's to ask about how well the mic works with that system.

I'm sure Trew can sell you a COS-11 that will plug right into the G2 transmitter. They'd also be the one's to ask about how well the mic works with that system.

Very cool!

Yah, I should just call them and get the info. I will post back what I hear from them. ;)

Thanks Marco!

Cheers,
Micky

Micky, did you get any satisfaction from Trew?

Hi Dana!

Doh! It completely slipped my mind.

Calling them now.

I will post back shortly.

Thanks for the reminder!
Micky

Hey there folks.

So, this is the information I just got (Trew Audio was very helpful):



Website: Trew Audio: Location Sound Equipment Sales, Rentals & Service for Film & Video Production throughout the US, Canada, and the rest of the world. (http://www.trewaudio.com/)
Phone: 1-800-241-8994


COS-11X/D

Note: No reason to get D with the G2 evolution. The D is about 50$ more, but it is intended to work with digital systems.

Pricing for COS 11x, wired

Mic with wired G2 connector:

Mic: $341
Connector: $28

Total: $369 (includes mic accessories)

Mic with wired G2 connector and hard-wired power supply:

Total: $444 (mic, connector, and accessories)
Note: Power supply is battery powered. This is useful if not using wireless transmitter.



I imagine that the prices may change over time, but it sounds like a pretty sweet deal! :)

Thanks for the information! That Trew does the connector work is an excellent thing - a lack of time on my part has kept me from using the Sanken with my Sennheisers. This changes that.

The D is about 50$ more, but it is intended to work with digital systems.

Can someone fill me in here by what is meant by "digital systems"? Maybe give an example of a digital wireless system and how it would differ from the G2?

Can someone fill me in here by what is meant by "digital systems"? Maybe give an example of a digital wireless system and how it would differ from the G2?

Digital wireless translates the audio to a digital data stream in the transmitter and sends that to the receiver. Higher quality sound, not as subject to dropouts, no need for companding and its resulting noise, etc. For details take a look at the Zaxcom wireless on their site. Be prepared for extreme sticker shock <g>. Senn G2 will run about $600 for a transmitter/receiver pair. Zaxcom digital will run in the vicinity of $4000 for a xmtr/rcvr set.

Makes perfect sense. Thanks, Steve.

Looks like I won't be getting the "D" model after all. You guys just saved me $50.

Nate or Mickey:

Can you give an update on how the COS-11X/D worked out with your G2 system?

What vendor did you end up using?

Thanks,
Jeff

I'm actually holding off on purchasing the wireless system since the Sennheiser G3 is so close to being released. But, I do have a COS-11x with an 1/8" mini-jack connection coming that I purchased directly from B&H. It's being drop-shipped directly from Sanken (they called to verify what type of wireless system I was going to use).

In the meantime, I'm hoping to use the mic wired directly to my H4n. Make some sort of belt for the recorder and use it directly instead of a wireless transmitter. Then I'll sync the audio in post. I'll let you know how things turn out.

I'm actually holding off on purchasing the wireless system since the Sennheiser G3 is so close to being released. But, I do have a COS-11x with an 1/8" mini-jack connection coming that I purchased directly from B&H. It's being drop-shipped directly from Sanken (they called to verify what type of wireless system I was going to use).

In the meantime, I'm hoping to use the mic wired directly to my H4n. Make some sort of belt for the recorder and use it directly instead of a wireless transmitter. Then I'll sync the audio in post. I'll let you know how things turn out.

Thanks for the quick reply!

Im ordering a COS11D-EW-Black from B&H today along with a lot of other items for a shoot coming up in August.

I wonder if the onboard power from my Sony PCM-D50 will power this mic? Any idea?

Anyway, my EW100 G2 518-554 MHz sets are still working great until the FCC turns off these frequencies. Will the G3 use the same microphone connector?

What vendor did you end up using?

Hi Jeff!

Sorry, but I have yet to purchase COS. :(

Sorry that I can not be of help.

Cheers,
Micky

Jeff -

The G2 and G3 units use the same connections, so you should be fine when/if you switch over. As for plugging it into the PCM-D50, I'm not sure. I'm wondering the same thing myself for the H4n.

Does anyone know if the COS-11D mics with 1/8" connectors will work plugged in directly to the Sony PCM-D50 or Zoom H4n?

Can't speak for the PCM-D50, but the H4n has one 1/8" mic jack with the option for "plug-in" power. It also has combination 1/4" (line) / XLR (mic) inputs with optional phantom power. Are any of those connection types the same as what I'll be getting with a G3 wireless transmitter? Are there any connections that I should definitely avoid testing on this microphone?

Thanks,

-Nate

Does anyone know if the COS-11D mics with 1/8" connectors will work plugged in directly to the Sony PCM-D50 or Zoom H4n?

Can't speak for the PCM-D50, but the H4n has one 1/8" mic jack with the option for "plug-in" power. It also has combination 1/4" (line) / XLR (mic) inputs with optional phantom power. Are any of those connection types the same as what I'll be getting with a G3 wireless transmitter? Are there any connections that I should definitely avoid testing on this microphone?

Thanks,

-Nate

Nate:

The plug-in power from the Sony D50 will power the condenser mics with the G2/EW plugs. However, it does not seem to be made to do it, as when pushed all the way in you get the left channel. When the connecter slips out just a hair, it slips to a notch it wants to stay in, and both channels are fed after a loud pop (keep the level to 0 while connecting). On the D50 this would not be a feasible connection for real field recording due to no way to securely maintain it.

However, it works great for tesing purposes. I used it to test the ME2 vs the COS11D lav mics and the G2 radio system vs direct recording to the D50.

Plug-in power on the Zoom works to power this mic as well. The locking connector definitely is not the right fit to the 1/8th jack. However, I soldered my own adapter that is a locking female 1/8th jack to standard 1/8th male plug and it works great. The recording is mono (right channel only), but that's what I was expecting. I'm assuming the left channel is used to supply the power.

Now that I have tested and used the COS11, I can offer some comments comparing it to the ME2.

1. The COS11 has a slightly lower noise floor than the ME2.

2. The COS is slightly more sensitive than the ME2.

3. The COS11 is much richer sounding with more low end than the ME2. If you thought the ME2 made people sound good, the COS11 does a much better job of it. The ME2 is definately thinner.

This is not really a negative aspect, but the only thing I have noticed is that when you use one COS11 lav to pick up two people (wedding ceremony is an example) the non micd person sounds thinner than with the ME2, because with the ME2 both people sound more evenly thin in comparison to the COS11. You still have better sound overall with the COS11, but the difference in non micd speaker is clearer. Maybe I am describing a proximity effect, I dont know. The COS11 can handle more manipulation in post though, so that is good.

Bottom line, for an upgrade to your ME2 lav, the COS11 is a good choice. It works great with the G2 radio system.