Hello all,

I'm not sure if anyone here has seen this posting at www.camcorderinfo.com? I haven't see it, so here it is..

I believe that I made a great choice with the HD10U - Sony might not be serious about low-cost HD just yet. Maybe this PD170 is for DV and a HD is around the corner? I'm doubtful if this camera doesn't even have 24P! I'd be interested in hearing comments:

There's been a ton of discussion about the PD170 over in the Sony PD150/VX2000 forum here.

I think that both Sony and Canon will not kill their flags over a new format. They will still produce their high end miniDV's and will devellop HDVs as other models. I doubt that the XL2 or VX3000 will be HDV but there will be HDV models from the both of them. They are certainly not stupid as to let this opportunity pass them by. Sony probably will also develop a format of it's own pretty similar to HDV as they usually do, like DVCam was devellopped after miniDV.

<<<-- Originally posted by Eric Bilodeau : I think that both Sony and Canon will not kill their flags over a new format. -->>>

Very true, but note that they are only doing tiny incremental changes. They are in the "making the tail fins higher" mode.

Sony might want to get DV replaced by HDV to get folks using DVCAM rather than DV.

Panasonic certainly has reason not to do HDV. They can keep building on the DVX100.

Plus they have their DV PRO line.

If the do HDV it will be to DVD-RAM.

<<<-- Originally posted by Eric Bilodeau : I think that both Sony and Canon will not kill their flags over a new format. They will still produce their high end miniDV's and will devellop HDVs as other models. I doubt that the XL2 or VX3000 will be HDV but there will be HDV models from the both of them. They are certainly not stupid as to let this opportunity pass them by. Sony probably will also develop a format of it's own pretty similar to HDV as they usually do, like DVCam was devellopped after miniDV. -->>>

I think the XL- line will be killed by a Canon HDV camera.

heath

Heath McKnight wrote:
"I think the XL- line will be killed by a Canon HDV camera."

Agreed but then again not anytime soon, more likely in a few years from now. They will do what they can to preserve what they have and HDV as yet to be widely accepted.

<<<-- Originally posted by Eric Bilodeau : Heath McKnight wrote:
"I think the XL- line will be killed by a Canon HDV camera."

Agreed but then again not anytime soon, more likely in a few years from now. They will do what they can to preserve what they have and HDV as yet to be widely accepted. -->>>

That may explain why the HD10 is more consumer than pro...How many people (including me) have decided the lack of true manual controls was pushing us to drop the camera in favor of the DVX100 or XL-1s?

If the Sony, Canon, etc. HDV cameras are the same way, it keeps sales of the DV cameras (esp. relatively new ones like the DVX100) up.

heath

<<<-- Originally posted by Eric Bilodeau : Heath McKnight wrote:
"I think the XL- line will be killed by a Canon HDV camera."

Agreed but then again not anytime soon, more likely in a few years from now. They will do what they can to preserve what they have and HDV as yet to be widely accepted. -->>>

I agree.

There is no way to get the light latitude from hi-rez CCD(s) that Canon will likely want. And, three CCDs will push them out of their target market.

I really don't see Canon doing it for at least 18 months.

And, maybe not Panasonic as they are INTO 24p.

That leaves Sony and JVC. These two seem to be working "together." Note JVC calls 1394 i.LINK. Note, JVC has shown a protype BluRay DVD burner. It uses i.LINK with MPEG-2-TS just like Sony's.

Sony already has 2Mpixel CCDs. I think CES will see a Sony HDCam.

Yes Sony is indeed a safe bet... And it will be a pro machine or else, they will not let a machine like the HD10 out.

Let's assume Panasonic are developing their own format like with the DVCPRO50, Matsushita owns the two companies so they should have a leap ahead on that. That may explain the fact that they have not joined the revolution yet. It is probable that this new machine will support 24p since they are pretty much into it.

I also agree with Steve on the Canon assumption, they will not rush a model, but they will deliver one, maybe NAB next year.

I think costs on a 3 chip model will be too high, and I still stand by my theory that keeping the HD10 consumer-ish keeps the 5000 mini-dv camera's sales up. If Canon can't make cheap 3 chip HDV cameras either, then they'll likely (according to my theory) put out a consumer-ish HDV camera that won't compete with the eventual XL-2. But that asks the question, what will the features on the XL-2 have? (And that's a discussion that belongs in the XL-2 page.)

heath

When is the next CES, or NAB?

I've been using the PD150 for a few years now. It's a great DV camera, no doubt.

However, I really love this new HD10U. It's got a few weird quirks, but I see the potential. I know its to early to say this, but I can't wait to see JVC's next version of it! If they went this far - we know they'll do better the next time around. It could take years, but I've been using the PD150 for years and it looks like the PD170 isn't going to be worth the upgrade. However, this HD10U is good now...just a few tweaks and it will blow away every DV image on the market. I know...the tweaks are quite large.

I've done a test running RGB into a regular television set - the image is "film" like compaired to the PD150. Whenever I shoot with the PD150 it's nice, but "film" look is grainy. The HD10U is clearer and seems to be more pleasing. Everyone I have shown the output to NTSC has said it's better than the PD150...and that's on a NTSC television. My HDTV at home..that's another story!

I for one will never go back to DV (for personal use to shoot digital films and television shows)....it's HD from this point forward. I'm pushing my day job (cable access television) to get into HDV, so I imagine lots more people out there are doing it too.

In a short time, I bet we'll be seeing HDV productions everywhere. I plan to shoot constantly now...I'm in love with the real estate this image provides. I'll look at 4:3 and then 16:9....and it's like giving an artist more canvas space to paint. It's a no brainer!

Once again, I like the PD150 for DV recording. It's great for run and gun...the auto features are great for getting that quick image you need. I'd take that before the HD10 on a promo shoot. However, I'd take the HD10 with me if I had some time to setup a shot....anyone share that idea?

Chris Murphy

I share pretty much the same assesment. HDV is the next step. I might still shoot in Dv for some corporate productions but for my films HDV is my new standard.

Christopher, I absolutely share your sentiments regarding HDV, it's very hard for me to look at a DV image now and feel excited about it, I look for details in it that simply are not there! I'm glad I got in on the ground floor with this camera, despite it's many problems. The beautiful images you can capture make it all worthwhile, and when a better HDV cam comes along with more professional features, you can bet I'll upgrade, but I think that could be a year or more out. For now I'm very happy with what I've got in the HD1OU.

A buddy of mine, who frequently uses the CineAlta, is actually psyched to shoot something with me next month on the HD10! That would be pretty cool, and I'll post up footage and such.

heath

of the train where the box car lettering appears under the light. Almost looks like a weird Tim Burton thing. Batman in Quebec. This camera may be a pain in the butt, but some great art will be made with it both before and after better HDV cameras hit the scene.
Regards, Alan

..as I was talking about his church footage post. Beautiful. Alan

apparently this is an upgrade to a very successful camera line.

I have Sony's and I have Canon's. I really like the Sony's low light capabilities.

New Panasonic's look great, the rest (JVC, etc..) I am not so sure about.

I think we will see a new seperate Sony camera line come out for the HD and 24f crowd. I don't think the PD-150 is supposed to be the next latest and greatest.

After 3-4 years of selling the PD 150, I think Sony has hit a homerun with it. Small upgrades here and there keep the PD 150/170 line comparable and competitive.

I am not in the market for a new camera, however, I would test a PD170 before I bought anything else. I just can't say enough about low lighting.

Important to mention- My Sony's are dear to me because they are the tools of my trade. However, on many occasion my kids are doing something I want to video. I always grab the PD150 before the GL2 because I rarely have to light the room or area.

Thanks for the comments on the church shot Alan, I was very astunished myself while shooting it. This camera has some impressive qualities... It never ceases to amaze me... I am a believer now, I have been since I saw the footage from Paul, I was then pretty sure this camera could "kick ass" and give me the image I am looking for. It did not take much testing to confirm that...

The upgrade from the PD150 to PD170 seems a lot like the upgrade from the Canon GL1 to GL2. The granddaddy upgrade is going to happen, though, and I think you'll se at a minimum 16x9 CCDs and 24p/30p/60i, at least I really hope that becomes standard issue.

has anyone heard of when Sony or Canon plan on introducing their HDV cams? If, so when will they hit the market?

Matt