Hi, I was snooping around this morning and came across this ebay auction
"Oktava MK012 Microphone mc012 not AKG Shure"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3702662826&category=29950

38 available for $77 US each
" I have HAND MATCHED PAIRS available."

Now, I am really new to audio but from what i've read this means checking 2 capsules to sound the same?

The price makes me think that it's only the body of the mic and you would have to buy the capsule seperately. I checked out your test (Beaser) with the different mics and the Oktava sounded pretty darn amazing.

I have read people say that this mic can't be used as a regular shotgun mic...is this true? I'm hoping it's not :( I need an all around mic.

My friend and I are hoping to do a doc on the natives around Ontario and the land claims settlements...I guess you would sort of know the tribes eh beaser?

Anyways, i'd appreciate anyone *chiming* in ;)
Thanks.
Rob

Several points
I'm no expert,but I really like the oktava hypercardoid in an interview situation.

These mics on ebay are cardoid (a hyper capsule will cost $65 US plus shipping from someone else no doubt) and if they are first quality, they would be a good deal.

Since this is ebay and i'm not a trusting sorta guy, I'd pass.

Lets do some math. you're in Toronto and you'd have to land these mic's from the US. If you bought 2 mics and had them shipped using UPS or fedex premium which includes brokerage that'd be $35 US. That works out to be approx $125 -130 canadian for each of 2 mics (depending on the credit card exchange rate). If you shipped them ground then UPS tack on $50 for brokerage.

The only source in the US for the individual hypercardoid capsules, seems to be The Sound Room and they are $65 plus shipping.

For around $160 - $175 Canadian you can buy a single capsule that is guaranteed by a local company. You may even be able to get a hypercardoid capsule as the included capsule and not the cardoid. The ones that are distributed by Malvern Audio are available in a matte black or the gun metal.

The kits with 3 capsules and a pad are under $300 Canadian.

Try giving Jason at AVR.ca a call

Wow, thanks for the quick reply Bryan

So, in all honesty you'd go with a Canadian company eh?
In the past, the best deals have always been from the states over...Henry's was charging $2499 for my lil consumer camera!

Okay can you give me some quick info because i'd have to make a decision sometime this week.
Hypercardoid - voice over, interview.
cardoid - wider, regular use?

I know there is tons of info around and I will search when I get a chance...you see i am supposed to be at the library right now studying philosophy and anthropology :S

Sorry to be a pain, but can you give me other costs?
- XLR to mini cable?
- shockmount?
- anything else?

If you have some links offhand that'd be really cool...I am trying to keep things REALLY cheap so if there is something that could be fabricated now, purchased later...that'd be great.

Thanks again for the speedy reply!
Rob

Rob, is that the JVC camera that doesn't have a mic input?

Shockmount- covered here in many threads, the Sabra Som shockmount seems to be the best choice for Canadians.

XLR to mini cable won't work, since that mic needs phantom and maybe some pre-amplification.

All the accessories can/will cost more than the mic...

For a limited budget just try the Oktava hypercardoid first.

If you don't have phantom then look at the Rode NT3. It runs on phantom or a 9 volt battery. There again, do the math $152 US plus $35 shipping is $247 for one mic landed or $225 each if you buy 2. You can buy them in TO for $235 Canadian.

For mounts Glenn is right. Long and McQuade have the Sabra Som for $40 Canadian, the US price is $50 US. So far as 1/8 stereo to XLR, DVShop.ca has them. DVShop is on Dundas by High Park.

To our US friends.
For us to buy from the US is a real chore. Even though there is supposed to be free trade there is so much red tape involved , the costs for this extra red tape can be downright silly.

To mail an item the brokerage is only $5.

fedEx and UPS tack on $45 - $50 on a ground shipment but cover the brokerage on a premium service. go figure.

If the bank rate is published at lets say $1.30 canadian to buy 1 US dollar, the credit card companiews will tack on anything up to $.04. Thhhhhhhhhhhpppt! It really gets interesting.

The best way is to buy at home, that way you will have a warranty. Sony, canon, JVC, panasonic, Audio Technica and the rest require the products to be shipped bachk to the country of purchase.

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh :For us to buy from the US is a real chore. Even though there is supposed to be free trade there is so much red tape involved -->>>

Sad but true. We have a lot of dealings going both ways with Canadian companies. NAFTA was supposed to make this easier but it seems to have further complicated it. And now there is a new US anti-terrorism initiative known as C-TPAT which has the potential to further complicate international shipping. Sign of the times I guess...

Glenn, yes, it is. However, another 3000U used from another forum emailed me saying he's got everything worked out parts and all, just has to make a pretty version.

Nope, not phantom powered...but...thinking about it now...the JVC mic's are powered through the camcorder. What are the voltage req's for phantom? I know there is power coming through the info shoe, because you can also attach a light, or a photo flash...hmmm

Anyways, with that question in the air...I was hoping for the oktava...I could definately tell the difference in your tests. I know you'll explain that they were anything but scientific but it definately seems like the common word around this and the "other" forum that the Oktava is the best buy.

So far (assuming I can swing phantom)
Option A
$300 Oktava kit
$40 Sabra Som Shockmount
XLR to stereo mini-jack $15
$355 before tax

Option B
$175 Oktava w/hypercardoid
$40 Sabra Som Shockmount
XLR to stereo mini-jack $15
$230 before tax

Option C
$235 Rode NT3
$40 Sabra Som Shockmount
XLR to stereo mini-jack $15
$290 before tax

No they weren't scientific. between myself, Matte Gettemeier and Dave Largent we sure did have fun. I shou;ld get permission to share their's as well.
A few of the clips had to be don't on the run so to speak. I went into a music store with my PMD670 and a cable for the NT3, Apex91 and a few others. The Oktava, NT1a,ME66, THE, AKG D230 were all done on a boom in my house. There are some i can't publish cuz of my wifes comments :)))))

You definetly won't get phantom from a camera mod. The Oktavas require 48 volt.

so then, the absolute only way to get phantom would be to go buy myself a beachtek dxa-6 eh?

:(

No. You can buy other mixers, or a phantom power unit.

(Still up...this is the only time I can do laundry in res :S)

Would you have any suggestions? I went on another Ebay hunt and prices ranged from 10-$249.

None but the beachtek seemed to have camera mounts or they needed AC power. Tips?

Thanks for all of your help guys...I'm learning a ton
Rob

EDIT: 1 more thing...I've been reading as much as I can and the Oktava keeps being referred to when used in the studio. I want to use this mic for shotgun use too! Is it too sensitive for outdoor/noisy environment use? Would the -10dB pad help?

And, for stereo sound, i'd need two...correct?

thanks a million guys!
Rob

Look at the unit that Carlos Matinez has. he's even offering a discount to forum members.

http://www.preciseaudio.com/brochure.html

If you can get an input into your camera , then i'd go with the NT3. For the money you can''t go wrong.

Bryan, can that unit screw onto the bottom of a cam?

No the precise audio unit will velcro onto a "bracket one" or can be clipped to your belt

That looks very nice but also very expensive.
What are the drawbacks of buying a cheaper one off of ebay? Higher signal to noise ratio?

thanks again
Rob

Go to Long and McQuade and see what they have in the used dept, try the samson mixpad or go over Jay Roses more inexpensive suggestions.. You know what my opinion is on ebay purchases

I have absolutly no time to go anywhere...if I was going to buy something near toronto it'd be my dad picking it up near work.

You know what my opinion is on ebay purchases
I know that much, but I wasn't asking about the purchase so much as the actual product...the quality of the product is what I need to know to make a decision.

I realize that first hand experience and testing is the best solution but it really isn't possible in my situation. Furthermore, I may think I know what sounds good, but then again, what do i really know?

some barebones questions:
- 1 mic = mono sound?
- can the oktava be used for all around shotgunning? (as well as the possible booming) outdoor use included!
- phantom power boxes like those ART II's and III's - quality?
- shockmount is a necessity i assume...anything smaller, or home-built for the time being?
- anyone have links on basic info on hypercardoid, cardoid, omni?

Thank you all so very much for replying!
honestly...really appreciate it!
Rob

some barebones questions:
- 1 mic = mono sound?
- can the oktava be used for all around shotgunning? (as well as the possible booming) outdoor use included!
- shockmount is a necessity i assume...anything smaller, or home-built for the time being?
- anyone have links on basic info on hypercardoid, cardoid, omni?


1 mic = mono sound. With 2 mics, there are various stereo setups you can do. Having the other capsules would lbe more flexible for some of the stereo setups. For some kinds of work, a M/S stereo mic might be more convenient. see http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_articles/feb97/stereomiking.html?session=bb26c5847b8bb254eff1f716e5688792

A shotgun would be more directional than the oktava, which would be good for a camera-mounted mic. For indoors work, a hypercardioid like the Oktava is a bit better since they handle room reflections better. For outdoors work, a shotgun is usually better. There's more background noise so more directionality/reach is better. But getting closer with the mic will improve your signal to background noise ratio, so you may be able to get good results by micing closer with a hypercardioid mic.

A decent hypercardioid setup may cost less than a decent shotgun setup. Remember to factor in the cost of windscreen, mount, adapters/mixers, etc. The extras can cost more than the mic.

Info on hyper, cardioid, etc. check out jay rose's articles on dv.com. http://www.dv.com/dv_login.jhtml?_requestid=11795

DSE/Spot also wrote an article on that subject. It's on the sundance site somewhere.

- phantom power boxes like those ART II's and III's - quality?

No idea, sorry.

(from the website)
The most common arrangement is to use a cardioid microphone facing forwards (the 'M' mic), together with a figure-of-eight microphone (the 'S' mic) facing sideways, and when these are converted into normal left-right stereo, they produce an identical acceptance angle to conventional crossed cardioids

so, cardoid for outdoors, super for indoors?
if you HAD to pick one for both situations, where booming would be used but only on production and this camera is used for goofing around as well

anyone have any input about the other questions?
- phantom power boxes like those ART II's and III's - quality?
- shockmount is a necessity i assume...anything smaller, or home-built for the time being?


thanks Glenn!
Rob

Rob,

I have the Oktava and the ART Phantom III, and they work fine together. The ART isn't a high-quality piece of equipment by any means (the 9V just sort of hangs in the compartment; there's no mounting clips for it), but then again, it doesn't really need to be. It does the job without any interference or static, the metal casing is sturdy, and it's cheap.

Also, I wouldn't use the cardiod capsule outdoors unless you've got two mics and are using the M/S config, per Glenn's suggestion. If you're just using one Oktava, then using the hyper for everything will sound best.

As far as the shockmount goes, there are plenty of homemade designs online if you don't want to spend money. Most involve using rubber bands, hair ties, or some other sort of elastic to suspend the mic. You're also going to need a windscreen if you do any outside shooting (and probably even inside shooting if you have forced air heat, an AC running, or even some windows open), because the Oktava is very sensitive to wind.

Good luck,
Ryan

Ryan, thank you!!!! That was some great advice, I really appreciate you taking the time!

Okay, now I have another question...say I only buy one supercardoid...what do I do about background sound? What do you guys shoot with? Just one shotgun? Does stereo sound not bother you? Or do you use some sort of omni alongside?

Thanks again!
Rob

MS requires a figure8 and a cardoid or hypercardoid. It also requires a capable mixer. The figure 8 is expensive and the mixer as well.
The common stereo setup (cheap and dirty) using 2 mics is XY or coincident. Rob, if you're going to use the Oktava , then use a hypercardoid.

Before you listen to any more advice read this. You aren't really clear on the concept yet and either are some of the people offering advice. Sarting off with the wrong information will cause much aggrevation not to mention wailing and gnashing of teeth. It will make something that should be turn out to be your worst nightmare and it will waste money.

It's a good basic primer on some mic techniques. http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/location_sound.html


This one has some good stuff so you can understand stereo
http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/faq-mic.html


There are a bunch more that have been posted, so read them. You can't learn audio through 2 paragraph posts. Take it from a crusty old fart, it's the only way :)

agreed!
by no means are any of anyones words the end. I have learned everything about building computers and now digital video out of my own curiousity...never really settling for what normal people would.

i HATE when people ask me to help them with the same computer problem i just told them how to do themselves last week, i imagine you are the same with this.

being pushed in the right direction is what i've been seeking...and i've been getting it.

Thanks Bryan for the links, when i get a chance i will read up. the reason i really don't want to get something cheaper than the oktava is the same reason I bought a $288 computer case from LA; it's gonna last me....too sick of buying for here and now.

Thanks everyone! now to fail an astronomy test!
Rob

ps film theory is bull.

Rob
For the samre reason, don't buy a mixer unless you know you can uload it for something better. An NT3 or Oktava hyper will be a keeper. The NT3 doesn't need phantom and it's got a little hotter output.

The ART phantom power..ers on ebay are nice and cheap. If I can get one of these, there isn't much lost money...and that way I get to spend more on the thing i definately won't be changing. The NT3 seems like a compromise to me. I listened to those tests very carefully, imported them into audition and all...I really like the oktaka.

about the hotter output, there's plans in a magazine on how to make it hotter, correct?

Bryan, I realize i seem difficult about all of this and I really appreciate you patience with me...I really do.
Rob