Jay M. - If you have provided sync to the camera, then, in a sense, you are passing this sync on to the Ki Pro if you are using an SDI output since the signal carries its own inherent sync; this is why you can be without a reference generator and in a "one-to-one" scenario, lay back to an SDI enabled VTR from another SDI device as long as the recording device is configured for "sync to input video."

We did not feel that adding a genlock connector was, as you put it, "a waste of space"... ;-)

During the product definition, this device was conceived of specifically as a companion to cameras where it would sync to the output video of the camera... which is what the device will do. I can appreciate wanting to have a genlock input on the product, but you should be able to use it in a variety of capacities without the presence of said connector.

I am also sorry if it seems impractical to copy to another disk to back up your media... it is simply a part of many modern methodologies/workflows to back up to disk and/or something like LTO these days. Data management can be a big (yawn) bore... I agree!

A data correction to point out... You stated:
"I don't fully understand the engineering requirements to send one 30 MBps stream to two or more places. I would assume it is related to the controller, not the media."

I was referring to 30+MB/sec, not 30Mbps as you noted.... there is quite a difference! Yes, this is in part about internal bandwidth on the Ki Pro device; it is, essentially, a computer with controllers for the media ports. I could go into a long description about memory copies, bus speeds, etc., but the essence of my original comment would remain the same... we have not ruled out "simultaneous" or "mirrored" recording, but at this phase, it is not part of the planned product release. We will sincerely look into it because we agree with you - that if we can enable such a feature - it would be beneficial to end users.

For the record, I am really enjoying these public discussions... feels like a pleasant meeting in the "digital town square." ;-)

Hope this information is helpful.

Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

Thanks again for the detailed reply.

I think your success with this product will lead to a new product line. Maybe a slightly larger single U rackmount version with dual redundant hard drives will be the ideal product for our studio. Maybe you can call it the Ki Studio!

But as it is, it looks the Ki will do a great job for me.

For redundancy, I could actually buy twice as many Kis as I need and still be cheaper than your competition.

~Jay

Jon,
If I edited with Final cut, the Ki Pro would be a slam dunk purchase, but alas my heart belongs to Avid MC. Is there any chance that the future would bring native Avid codecs?

Terry M. - You are certainly not the first to ask about support for Avid.

AJA created Ki Pro to answer the problem posed by the proliferation of codecs presented to users... which is, in my humble opinion, daunting and fraught with post production pitfalls.

Apple has created a strong "ecosystem" for post production with Final Cut Studio applications, QuickTime and, in particular, Apple ProRes 422 and Apple ProRes 422 (HQ).

You can certainly do a high quality transcode from Apple ProRes 422 or Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) to the codec you prefer to use with your Avid. You might look into MetaFuze for this (but you probably are aware of that already).

Hope this information is helpful,
Jon

Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

I don't know if this is possible in a QT file. For all I know it may already be a feature in the Ki.

I think it would be very helpful to be able to add markers in a video file. For instance, tonight during our church service there was an obvious mistake that will need to be edited out. It would have been very helpful if we had the ability to put a marker in the file.

Taking it up a notch, it would be very cool if you could add text to name the marker in the web interface.

I think some of the super expensive VTR programs do things like this, it would great if the Ki had that ability too.

thanks,
~Jay

Have you got any update/pictures on a hand held configuration?

I currently have a Canon XL-H1 and do a lot of handheld work. Its great to see
more options coming out to take advantage of the HD-SDI output for field work
rather than buying a new camera, but it obviously needs to work within the current
way I shoot.

Regards
Kirk.



Matt G. - While I know that we've only shown images of the Ki Pro mounted below cameras and then mounted to a tripod, I've personally done a handheld configuration that was quite comfortable. It's noted in this thread that I would show this configuration, but I am precluded from doing that before our professional photography of said configuration is completed. Sorry - my iPhone photos didn't make the cut with the marketing department!

The Ki Pro is quite lightweight and while I understand the desire to have a smaller unit, like a FireStore, I hope you can appreciate that we needed the physical space to make the connectors and the storage fit into the unit. Also keep in mind that the FireStore units only take a feed from the camera via a single compressed digital output, recording in the same format you are recording on the camera in terms of compression and they don't "officially" support the user changing out the recording media housed inside the device. Not trying to diminish the quality of their products - in fact I spoke to them briefly at NAB to say "no ill will" because I think that we have two quite different products and I could imagine using both devices for recordings - a Ki Pro and a FireStore - at the same time to cover multiple types of tapeless recording that you might want. AJA and Focus Enhancements "stay out of each others way" when it comes to connecting to the cameras because AJA takes the baseband uncompressed output from the camera while Focus Enhancements takes the compressed data output spigot.

Sorry, got a bit distracted from your original question, but thought it would be of interest!

Hopefully, we can get those handheld configuration images out to the world sooner than later!

Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

........
Ah the Canon 5D MKII... such a fascinating product... I really and truly wish that it had a few more features that made it a true "video" camera, but it is first and foremost a DSLR and secondly a device that can record video. If you do a little searching on this and other websites, you will note that while you can get a signal out of the HDMI spigot, if you are performing a live recording to the device, then the output is scaled down inside of the full raster output. If you don't work this way, you get things like display overlays on the video for many of these DSLRs. So, in essence, this makes the output from the DSLRs not all that useful when combined with an external recorder like Ki Pro. This might change, but for now this is the case. Sorry folks... I too was pretty excited to use a DSLR as my "camera head" and the Ki Pro as my "camera back" but alas, that does not seem possible with the current generation of DSLR with video capabilities and HDMI outputs... now the next generation... we can only hope!


Hi, this is bad news for me as I planned to get Ki Pro and 5D.

My question: will the recently announced 5D firmware update handle this issue? (out in June and its main feature is manual controls of ISO, shutter speed and iris during recording).

thanks

First, let me apologize for an abnormally tardy reply to your posts... I literally was on a plane from the United States to Seoul, Korea on May 25th and have been busy giving presentations here in Seoul since the time I arrived.

Jay M. - Regarding adding markers within the QuickTimes as they are being recorded: this is not something that will initially be offered. However, it is not outside of the realm of possibility that metadata information such as this could be integrated at a later date. We definitely recognize the desire for this type of thing... can't say more than this at this time!

Kirk P. - Unfortunately, I cannot control the schedule for the professional photography of the hand held configuration... and I have been sternly instructed "Don't post the pictures you took with your iPhone of yourself handholding it!" Sorry... I can only suggest patience in seeing proper images of the hand held configuration. If you were standing next to me, I would simply show you on my iPhone what it looks like! (sigh)

Zsolt G. - I believe that the latest firmware update for the Canon 5D MKII only enables the manual exposure controls and does not offer any changes to the HDMI live output during recording. (Since it is not a public release yet though, this is only speculation) Sorry... we too are eager to use a Canon 5D MKII alongside a Ki Pro, but we must wait and see what updates are offered for the camera just like you must.

Again, sorry for the somewhat tardy replies...I'm quite busy with business in Asia at the moment.

Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

No worries, look forward to seeing it when it does get done officially. Good to know it can do that configuration if need be.

K.


First, let me apologize for an abnormally tardy reply to your posts... I literally was on a plane from the United States to Seoul, Korea on May 25th and have been busy giving presentations here in Seoul since the time I arrived.

Jay M. - Regarding adding markers within the QuickTimes as they are being recorded: this is not something that will initially be offered. However, it is not outside of the realm of possibility that metadata information such as this could be integrated at a later date. We definitely recognize the desire for this type of thing... can't say more than this at this time!

Kirk P. - Unfortunately, I cannot control the schedule for the professional photography of the hand held configuration... and I have been sternly instructed "Don't post the pictures you took with your iPhone of yourself handholding it!" Sorry... I can only suggest patience in seeing proper images of the hand held configuration. If you were standing next to me, I would simply show you on my iPhone what it looks like! (sigh)

Zsolt G. - I believe that the latest firmware update for the Canon 5D MKII only enables the manual exposure controls and does not offer any changes to the HDMI live output during recording. (Since it is not a public release yet though, this is only speculation) Sorry... we too are eager to use a Canon 5D MKII alongside a Ki Pro, but we must wait and see what updates are offered for the camera just like you must.

Again, sorry for the somewhat tardy replies...I'm quite busy with business in Asia at the moment.

Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

Having followed this post I was looking forward to seeing the KiPro in action at the AJA World Tour in London yesterday. Unfortunately the meeting was, for me as an AJA novice, quite disappointing. I really hoped the meeting would bring the KiPro to life and show us the difference in picture quality between in camera compression and recording straight to pro res, how does it affect colour grading, will the end result on e.g dvd look better, maybe even throw in some hands on workshops. Instead we had to sit through facts & figures slideshows, testimonials and promo videos which can all be found on the website anyway. It all felt a bit like going to a new product launch at Starbucks and not being able to taste the actual coffee. Speaking of drinks, it was baking outside and we weren't offered any refreshments at the start of the show. Please don't take this personally as it is meant to be constructive criticism. I just think it is such a shame that an opportunity like this which will no doubt have cost a lot of money and preparation, is well ... wasted.

Having followed this post I was looking forward to seeing the KiPro in action at the AJA World Tour in London yesterday. Unfortunately the meeting was, for me as an AJA novice, quite disappointing. I really hoped the meeting would bring the KiPro to life and show us the difference in picture quality between in camera compression and recording straight to pro res, how does it affect colour grading, will the end result on e.g dvd look better, maybe even throw in some hands on workshops. Instead we had to sit through facts & figures slideshows, testimonials and promo videos which can all be found on the website anyway. It all felt a bit like going to a new product launch at Starbucks and not being able to taste the actual coffee. Speaking of drinks, it was baking outside and we weren't offered any refreshments at the start of the show. Please don't take this personally as it is meant to be constructive criticism. I just think it is such a shame that an opportunity like this which will no doubt have cost a lot of money and preparation, is well ... wasted.

thanks for posting this .. I am registered for the one in NY but given the above (and I think I would share similar expectations for the video content) not sure it's worth time to get to the city, for the event, time to get back, and opportunity cost of all that time ... thank you again for posting

edit: but still quite interested in the product!

If you were standing next to me, I would simply show you on my iPhone what it looks like! (sigh)

So I guess there's no chance of you posting a photo of your iphone... showing the photo!?! LOL! Probably not I guess.

Thanks so much for keeping an eye on this thread and for all your detailed responses to our questions.

Satisfied AJA users since 2000.

Olivier D. - Sorry to hear you felt you did not have an optimal experience with the Ki Pro London event. I checked with my co-workers (I am personally on the Asia portion of the tour right now and typing this from Beijing as noted in the title of my post). The group on the Europe portion of the tour informed me that there were beverages available at the event, but that due to the nature of the facility, those beverages had to be kept in another room adjacent to where the presentation was held. Sorry if you were not directed to that area when you arrived. At the Seoul event, we were able to have water in the room without any issue, but again, different venues have different rules.

The presentations we are giving throughout the world right now assume that the user has no (or little) prior knowledge of the benefits of Apple ProRes 422 nor of Ki Pro in technical terms, so I apologize if the presentation was remedial for you in some sense (we cannot assume that everyone will be as thoughtful as you have been and take the time to visit our website, read about the product, and view the videos posted there!) In London, like Seoul, the Ki Pro was demonstrated in operation - performing a recording (typically of the audience so you can verify that it is indeed real and not "smoke and mirrors") - and then we take the media and connect it to a MacBook Pro where we edit and playback the recording. To cover all of the specifics as presented in the slides, give the brief demo as I have just described it AND have time for a question and answer session does not leave us with much time to do some of the good suggestions you have made: comparison of camera compression vs. Apple ProRes 422 compression, color correction benefits of using a 10-bit codec, etc. We offer this type of detailed and more hands-on opportunity to present the product via our reseller channel in the coming months. Many of our resellers are eager to hold such events, so I'm sure that Boxer or Jigsaw or NMR or any of the resellers in the UK who will be carrying Ki Pro in your area will have such events where you will have time to consider the product in the detail you describe. This is part of what makes these companies value added resellers for AJA. For events on our world tour, we really have had to limit the nature of the presentation for duration reasons, and also because we are trying to present a similar presentation in different areas where (as in my case in Seoul) the entire presentation must be given via translation... adding quite significantly to our total running time. I'm sure if you stayed for the question and answer portion in London, you likely got more details that were not part of the slides or of the brief demo. We really are making a concerted effort to give you the best opportunity to see the product by bringing it to many, many cities around the world over the next month. I really do appreciate your feedback and if a reseller has an event soon, perhaps you will consider attending that event which will likely give you more of an opportunity to investigate the product in the detail you describe.

Dave S. - I think there is a lot of valuable information presented at the events, as noted above in my reply to Olivier. I think this is especially true for people who were not able to attend NAB 2009 where we gave similar presentations. I know the commute in from New Jersey to the city is "non-trivial" since I used to live in NYC. Having said that, I think it would be worth your time to attend the event, especially for the question and answer portion which is a good opportunity if you are specifically interested in some aspect of the product to inquire and/or to hear others' questions which may spur the "I hadn't thought of that..." moment regarding your own workflow needs.

Tim B. - If you were in Beijing right now, I would show you my iPhone with the handheld photos. 'Nuff said! I know, I'm a broken record on this point... but I'm under a marketing edict.

Thanks for the kind words... doing my best to keep an eye on this thread (and the events worldwide) because I legitimately care about your questions, concerns and opinions... I hope you can appreciate that there might be a lag in my reply from Seoul... or Beijing... or Tokyo... or...

Regards,

Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

Jon Thorn (or Olivier, or anyone else who attended a tour event), is there any discount (e.g. rebate) being offered for orders placed at the world tour to incent immediate purchases?

And Jon, thanks so much for your presence here on this board, it really makes a huge difference and we all realize you are quite busy right now.

Hi Dave, there were surprisingly no special discounts at the London event.

Hi Jon, thanks for finding the time to reply during your hectic schedule. I am not a very technical person, in general I don't really care how something is done, it is the end result that matters most. The KiPro's biggest selling point for me was the increase in picture quality without having to buy a new camera, so I was hoping to see its benefits in action. Just like the Apple Final Cut world tour last year showed us the benefits of using e.g. Color (shots before and after color correction). I would have liked to have seen a hands on demo's so I could understand how the KiPro would affect the (image) quality of my productions. It's great to hear the resellers are keen to set up events as well, but honestly I already committed time and money to go and see the product in London (you had me and possibly lost me). But then again you will have researched the needs of your customers before starting the tour. Oh and I did stay for Q&A. Anyway, good luck with the rest of your tour. All the best! Ollie

Does AJA now know when the Ki Pro will be out "in the channel" and available for purchase?

Once again, sorry for the delay in replying... several busy and exciting days in Japan on the Ki Pro World Tour.

Dave S. - Regarding your question about discounts on Ki Pro... rarely do new-to-the-market AJA products begin with discounts. If you have an established relationship with a local reseller, you can certainly inquire with them regarding pricing. I really encourage people to purchase AJA products from their local value added resellers.

And thanks for the kind words about keeping up with the forum... admittedly, it is a bit grueling to keep up with the forum while traveling from country to country in Asia right now. And I'm usually getting by on only a few hours of sleep, usually naps taken on planes! So apologies in advance for spelling errors or grammar mistakes... :-)

Ollie D. - In my presentations now - based directly on your feedback on this forum - I show side-by-side comparisons of an image in HDV, DVCPRO HD and Apple ProRes 422 and compare these to the uncompressed source image. (We do listen to your feedback!) Again, due to the timeframe in which we need to move through what is designed as a general presentation, we just don't have time to properly light and shoot a setup where HDV and Apple ProRes 422 can be properly compared, split screen and difference matte comparisons performed, etc. at these events. Again, I think hands-on demos will be the domain of our value added resellers, though I must admit, at many of the events here in Asia, if people stay for Q&A, I walk through the menus, shoot a few more shots, etc. But even at my events that has not always been possible due to time limits at the venues. I, like you, wish it was otherwise... I like going through everyone's questions in detail in an attempt to answer their questions.

Thanks for your feedback and words of encouragement for the rest of the tour. Again, I personally hope you will visit a reseller for a more hands-on experience with Ki Pro in the future.

Andrew S. - We are still on target to begin shipping Ki Pro in June, so I would expect that units will be available in a variety of dealers shortly thereafter with many resellers seeing units in July with respect to their place in line in terms of their purchase orders.

Thanks again for your questions, doing my best to keep up with them from the road!

Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

Hi Jon

Can you give me an idea of which camera(s) - considering the best price/performance ratio - will give the best results with the Ki Pro?

Many thanks

Any photos of how the Ki-Pro is to be used in when a camera is being used on the shoulder, like the HPX-500?

Andreas S. - I think there are a wide variety of cameras that can produce excellent results when coupled with the Ki Pro; everything from small prosumer cameras to broadcast ENG cameras. Personally, I really like the cost-to-feature balance of a few cameras:
Canon XH G1s
JVC GY-HM700
Panasonic AG-HPX170
Sony PMW-EX1

Each of these cameras has their own merits of course and I think personal taste plays a large part in choosing a camera, so I cannot predict which you might prefer. Coincidentally, all of the aforementioned cameras come in at roughly the same basic price point. All of them also feature professional manual controls (exposure, focus, etc.) as well as an HD-SDI output for ease of connectivity to Ki Pro. In my opinion, the real power of Ki Pro is to elevate high-quality optics and sensors in the smaller modern cameras by providing them with an equally high-quality recording... Apple ProRes 422.

Matt G. - I wish I was in charge of AJA's professional photography of products... but unfortunately folks, it's one responsibility I'm not given! ;-) Photos of Ki Pro in handheld configurations are supposed to be forthcoming. As for the handheld ENG, shoulder mounted cameras, I think most people will want to mount the Ki Pro on the camera's top handle for handheld work and then add a t-handle to the top of the Ki Pro exoskeleton so you can easily lift or carry the camera that way.

Thanks again for your questions and interest,

Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

Andreas S. - I think there are a wide variety of cameras that can produce excellent results when coupled with the Ki Pro; everything from small prosumer cameras to broadcast ENG cameras. Personally, I really like the cost-to-feature balance of a few cameras:
Canon XH G1s
JVC GY-HM700
Panasonic AG-HPX170
Sony PMW-EX1


Thank you Jon

Hello Jon,
I noticed the cameras you mentioned above all have HD-SDI outputs (I'm sure this was in wanting to keep an all digital workflow). However, the Canon XHG1 has a baby brother - the much more affordable (and somewhat ubiquitous) Canon XHA1 that has HD Analog Component outs.

Have you tested the Ki Pro's images with HD Analog Component? and if so, is there a difference to the images produced by HD-SDI?

Thanks in advance,
Lonnie

Can you open up the drive cartridge shell and put a new drive in? Yes, physically possible... but we don't want users to do this and will "strongly discourage" this type of activity. This is not a "I'll just put my own drive in there to save money" solution; we worked long and hard to qualify the drive the unit ships with. Putting something else in there could be a big headache for you, your production, and our tech support team if it doesn't meet the requirements in terms of bandwidth to support write/read speeds of Apple ProRes 422. I hope you believe us when we say that we are not interested in marking up the drives - the 250GB shipping unit that is included can also be purchased for $269 if you need additional cartridges. Close to a dollar per GB is pretty reasonable and standard for our industry.

Hope this information is helpful - feel free to ask other questions,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

Jon, the AJA Ki-Pro is filling a market void--that is certain. I am interested in it as a Sony EX3 owner who would like to make full use of the camera's 4:2:2, 10-bit HD-SDI port. I also much prefer recording to SSD rather than have to deal with a pile of CF cards containing 8-bit video of whatever flavor. However, I have two concerns that are preventing me from ordering the Ki-Pro.

First point: While your price reasoning may come close on Rotating Mechanical Hard Disk (HDD) units, your argument does not hold water for the prices you are quoting on Solid State Drives (SSD). I understand SSD pricing is a moving target these days. However, the 4th Gen SSD that are now available are twice as fast or faster than any HDD currently available. They are also half the price of your currently quoted prices for 128GB and 256GB units. Either price your SSD's into market reality or provide us with an option to purchase a case without an SSD.

Second point: where is the SATA-2 port? Yes FW800 is OK for some Laptop folks. However SATA-2 is the preferred interface for the rest of us who would like to actually make use of the blazing SSD read speeds that make tapeless workflows much more time efficient.

Thanks for listening. Cheers!

First point: While your price reasoning may come close on Rotating Mechanical Hard Disk (HDD) units, your argument does not hold water for the prices you are quoting on Solid State Drives (SSD). I understand SSD pricing is a moving target these days. However, the 4th Gen SSD that are now available are twice as fast or faster than any HDD currently available. They are also half the price of your currently quoted prices for 128GB and 256GB units. Either price your SSD's into market reality or provide us with an option to purchase a case without an SSD.

Second point: where is the SATA-2 port? Yes FW800 is OK for some Laptop folks. However SATA-2 is the preferred interface for the rest of us who would like to actually make use of the blazing SSD read speeds that make tapeless workflows much more time efficient.

Thanks for listening. Cheers!



1. It depends on what SSD you're using. If AJA is using good stuff like the Samsung or Intel then the pricing is going to be higher but so will the stablity. We also cannot compare these to a bare drive because each case has a FW bridge chip which for FW800 isn't cheap. I don't think AJA is trying to soak anyone here but they're also not trying to go broke selling the media at cost.

2. eSATA is a horrible connector that has little place being on Pro gear. It's limited to less than 300MBps real world so it's not that blazing and it doesn't offer power either.

1. It depends on what SSD you're using. If AJA is using good stuff like the Samsung or Intel then the pricing is going to be higher but so will the stablity. We also cannot compare these to a bare drive because each case has a FW bridge chip which for FW800 isn't cheap. I don't think AJA is trying to soak anyone here but they're also not trying to go broke selling the media at cost.

2. eSATA is a horrible connector that has little place being on Pro gear. It's limited to less than 300MBps real world so it's not that blazing and it doesn't offer power either.

Harrison, Samsung and Intel are not the only game in the SSD market and their products are now 3rd Generation with issues of their own. The 4th generation devices by OCZ-Vertex, RunCore, Corsair are already faster and more economical.

On your second point, try telling Red that the SATA cable/connector for their camera to interface with SSD's has no place on Pro gear. The 4th generation SSD speeds are more than capable of saturating a FW800 port. Finally, the SATA-3 specification has also been finalized to make room for these newer/faster storage devices.

At the end of the day, video shooters/editors want to squeeze all we can out of our more modern HD camera's that produce very respectable 10-bit video coming off the HD-SDI port. That means larger file sizes even with ProRes(HQ) and hence the need for faster data transfer speeds. Cheers!

Count me in as someone that would like to see Firewire 3200 become the next connection standard. My reasons.

1. 400 Megabyte per second transfer
2. Same cables and circuitry as FW800
3. Powered ports
4. Peer to peer architecture

My only beef with SATA is that we now need to wait for the second revision to get above 300 MBps data and it's a hosted architecture like USB in that I have to have a computer in the chain.

I think we're stuck in the middle right now with aging external connectivity (USB 2.0 and FW800 and eSATA) that are rapidly being outstripped by SSD.

I think we're stuck in the middle right now with aging external connectivity (USB 2.0 and FW800 and eSATA) that are rapidly being outstripped by SSD.

Agreed, and surprisingly SSD's use the SATA-2 port standard :-) Cheers!

Lonnie B. - Yes, you can certainly use camcorders with component analog HD outputs. These will work fine and produce excellent results. The main reason I listed the particular cameras I did is because they shared similar features at similar price points. Also note that you can run HD-SDI signals greater distances than a component signal, however this isn't much of an issue if all you are doing is connecting your camera's output to the Ki Pro. The SDI connection is really just an "ease of use" proposition when connecting to Ki Pro since it could carry the audio and video signals via one cable.

Barry A. - I would still say that our disk pricing is pretty realistic - even for the SSD units - when compared with other camera based solid state recording media like P2 or SxS. As for do-it-yourself solutions... we don't want to offer "empty storage modules" that users can fill, because, again to reiterate this point, we don't want people to try to use possibly inadequate disks to populate the cases and then have problems. Simple as that.

As for your second question, the storage module features a FireWire 800 port as well as the SATA connector. The FireWire 800 connector allows the media to be connected to a wide variety of computers easily and this one cable can provide the data connection as well as the power. While we aren't offering any SATA connection for the drive to the computer at the outset, we won't rule out the possibility that a cable or adapter will be offered at a later date to take advantage of the speed inherent to this type of connection.

Harrison M. - You bring up some good points... not all SSDs are priced the same, and often for good reason; they don't all share the same performance characteristics (and performance characteristics aren't always about the manufacturer's stated benchmark numbers...) To use your language, we aren't trying to "soak anyone" for the cost of the storage. If we were, EVERYTHING about Ki Pro would be much, much more expensive!

Thanks for your questions! Sorry if my reply to some of them is a bit tardy.

Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

Lonnie B. - Yes, you can certainly use camcorders with component analog HD outputs. These will work fine and produce excellent results. The main reason I listed the particular cameras I did is because they shared similar features at similar price points. Also note that you can run HD-SDI signals greater distances than a component signal, however this isn't much of an issue if all you are doing is connecting your camera's output to the Ki Pro. The SDI connection is really just an "ease of use" proposition when connecting to Ki Pro since it could carry the audio and video signals via one cable.

Hi Jon

if I understand correctly there is practically no difference in using the Canon XH A1 with analog hd out or the XH G1 with hd-sdi, besides shorter length of the cables and audio and video on two different cables. No difference in the image quality. So if I wanted to use the Ki pro mounted on the tripod under the camera, there would be no point in spending twice as much to get a G1.

The form of the KiPro resembles the old field recorder from Sony (it came in all format flavors BETAcam/Dvcam/HDcam), thus making it suitable for all situations where a videoman is needed. On the other hand is not very practical for steadicam or small crews and I believe that the tripod cage is not an ideal solutions because of weight, size and balancing issues. This could be addressed if the expresscard unit was detachable in order to function as an on camera recorder (much like JVC's KA-MR100G SxS memory card recorder).
Otherwise, with an SSD drive, the expresscard option is pointless in my opinion.

Jon,

I have a two questions. One weight related and the other about conversion.

Could you let us know the weight of the individual components: the Ki Pro itself with a hard drive inserted, two the exoskeleton and three the Rod accessory kit. If it is too time consuming to get the individual weights on the later two then simply a gross weight figure would be sufficient.

On conversion... Can you do cross conversion on the fly, say bringing in a HD signal and lay it down to SD? Second can you do conversion processing on files once they have been laid down within the box or be able to cross convert via computer software (such as via Final Cut or standalone s/w from AJA) utilizing the processors within the Ki Pro?

I see on the spec sheet in the Ki Pro brochure that it can do hardware cross conversion of HD signals but I am unclear about when the cross conversion can take place and if the cross conversion can go from HD to SD.

I can't wait for this device. Any idea on release date?

Lets hope AJA can manage to keep the KiPro in tune with the current SSD marketplace.

Intel launching cheaper SSDs with up to 320GB capacity in two weeks? (http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/29/intel-launching-cheaper-ssds-with-up-to-320gb-capacity-soon/)

Andreas S. - Yes, using the component output from a Canon XH A1 will be comparable to using the HD-SDI output from the Canon XH G1s. Again, the advantage of using the HD-SDI connection, it that it makes for a single connection for audio and video.

Emmanuel P. - The Ki Pro, when used with the exoskeleton, provides for a small footprint beneath the camera; this means that it does not tend to bias the weight of the camera front or rear as some lenses or rear mounted accessories might. In terms of balance, the exoskeleton even features a sliding plate to adjust the weight distribution of the camera when mounted to the exoskeleton. With regards to the ExpressCard/34 portion of the recorder being removable, this would have added complexity and therefore cost to the design of the unit... but it's certainly a nice idea!

Andrew S. - Ki Pro with the 250GB storage module in place weighs 3.55 lbs, the exoskeleton weighs 2.45 lbs, and the rod endplates weigh 0.7 lbs. As for your conversion questions, you can convert on input and you can convert on output. This means that if you feed an HD signal to the Ki Pro, you can downconvert to an SD recording. Or you can feed Ki Pro a 720p HD signal and record a 1080i HD signal. If you've recorded something already, you can use the device to produce a video output with a conversion. A great way to think about the benefit of the conversions is to use the device to record the format you want to work with in post-production.

Ed D. - We are getting close to release. Thanks for your patience!

Barry A. - One of the best parts of using the 2.5" SATA form factor for the Ki Pro Storage Module is that we will be able to utilize larger capacity SSD drives as they become available.

Hope this is helpful information,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

One of the best parts of using the 2.5" SATA form factor for the Ki Pro Storage Module is that we will be able to utilize larger capacity SSD drives as they become available.

Hope this is helpful information,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

Jon, will the Ki Pro be using the SATA-3 (6Gb/s) port interface which was standardized late 2008 to make use of the new 4th Generation SSD's?

Micron's smaller NAND chips mean more, faster flash memory in the same old enclosures (http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/30/microns-smaller-nand-chips-mean-more-faster-flash-memory-in-th/)

Hi Jon,

I work in a non-broadcast live event production company, and we are in a great need for a such device as Aja Ki Pro - only one question hangs in my mind - can Ki Pro downconvert in real time? during recording HDSDI signal can it output SD composite/component for montioring on SD monitors?

what's the workflow, if any, for capture and edit on a PC? seems that AJA has missed half the marketplace on this.

I don't know if Jon didn't see this or just ignored it, but it was my question too. I'd LOVE to dump my Firestore for long form recording from my EX1. And right now, my options are really down to two units.

1. Convergent NanoFlash
2. AJA Ki Pro

While I realize that AJA has been in bed with Apple for quite a long time, it's really disheartening to learn that there is absolutely zero provision to provide more than one codec. Jpeg2000 or even DNxHD (both free to license) would have opened the door to users on other platforms at very little additional cost.

This choice by AJA to essentially exclude anyone who is not on FCP turned what should have been a lengthy conversation with my employer into a non-starter.

Barry A. - Sorry somehow I missed your post regarding SATA 3; I thought I had answered all of the questions you posted originally on drive technology! Since the SATA technology is very new, we are not using this for Ki Pro. But the good news is that SATA 3 technology is backwards compatible with SATA 1 and SATA 2, so this should not be an issue in terms of drive compatibility.

Kaarle K. - Yes, the Ki Pro has the ability to downconvert in realtime via hardware. This means that you could indeed record HD material, but simultaneously downconvert and monitor on your existing SD monitors.

Perrone F. - AJA elected to create an Apple ProRes 422 recorder because there seemed to be a need for such a device considering the large Final Cut Pro user base and their desire to work with a high quality codec like Apple ProRes 422 in post. Keep in mind that while JPEG 2000 and Avid's DNxHD might be "free to license", this does not mean that they are "free to implement"; a great deal of development time is spent implementing software compression schemes in hardware... and the more codecs you implement, the longer your development and testing phases, etc. Yes, the majority of those who will benefit from Ki Pro will be Final Cut Pro users, but since Apple offers QuickTime decoders for Apple ProRes files for both the Mac and the PC, it is still a useful codec for users who are not working specifically with Final Cut Pro or even a Mac.

As always, hope this information is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

Perrone F. - AJA elected to create an Apple ProRes 422 recorder because there seemed to be a need for such a device considering the large Final Cut Pro user base and their desire to work with a high quality codec like Apple ProRes 422 in post. Keep in mind that while JPEG 2000 and Avid's DNxHD might be "free to license", this does not mean that they are "free to implement"; a great deal of development time is spent implementing software compression schemes in hardware... and the more codecs you implement, the longer your development and testing phases, etc. Yes, the majority of those who will benefit from Ki Pro will be Final Cut Pro users, but since Apple offers QuickTime decoders for Apple ProRes files for both the Mac and the PC, it is still a useful codec for users who are not working specifically with Final Cut Pro or even a Mac.

As always, hope this information is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

Jon,

Thanks for your reply. While I am certain you are privy to better numbers than me, I am curious as to whether your numbers show you there are more FCP users out there or more Avid users. I wonder if the unit recorded to JPEG2000 or DNxHD, instead of ProRes if it would be as popular.

Perhaps it is because I am not a FCP user that units like this, and cameras like the new JVC that shoots to ProRes, tend to irk me. Sometimes I think the popularity of ProRes is out of all proportion to FCPs installed base. It is even more bothersome when you consider that FCE cannot read ProRes, so you lock out the non-pro Apple users too.

Thanks to Apples generosity, PC users with modern Quicktime installations can read ProRes. I suppose we should be grateful for this one-way free ticket, but it rings awfully hollow when there are other codecs that perform just as well and are readable and writable on multiple platforms.

I wish you guys all the best. It seems as though this product will knock it out of the park. I am just sorry that it can't be a legitimate consideration for me at this time.

Do one thing and do it well. For me, I'd be able to transcode it as pro res onto a pc. 10 bit 422 with a great build quality that won't fail in the field. modular harddrives. I am sold. I also like the extra time AJA is putting into the unit. They are taking their time to make it right. Now I hope the thing works :)

Jon,

Thanks for your reply. While I am certain you are privy to better numbers than me, I am curious as to whether your numbers show you there are more FCP users out there or more Avid users. I wonder if the unit recorded to JPEG2000 or DNxHD, instead of ProRes if it would be as popular.

Perhaps it is because I am not a FCP user that units like this, and cameras like the new JVC that shoots to ProRes, tend to irk me. Sometimes I think the popularity of ProRes is out of all proportion to FCPs installed base.

I've been editing on Avid since 1991. FCPro since 2004. I don't have the numbers but I can say without equivocation that Final Cut Pro is dominating the post market.

I'm sure AJA and the other manufacturers would be doing their stockholders a disservice to bring to market a product unless the numbers were there in the market research.

I've been editing on Avid since 1991. FCPro since 2004. I don't have the numbers but I can say without equivocation that Final Cut Pro is dominating the post market.

Interesting. Do you feel this is true because of all the independents out there, or are you seeing this in post houses and large shops as well? I know my town is an anomoly, but I haven't worked with any shops around here that use FCP. Every place I've had to deal with is an AVID shop. My friend is a producer at the city and they are on AVID. The AP Affiliate that I work with sometimes is Avid, the local TV stations are AVID, the PBS station that I work with on a regular basis is AVID. I'm the odd bird with Vegas, but I just can't afford an AVID system at this point.

I know they use FCP up at FSU in the film school, but I don't work with them directly. Just have a friend in the program.

Interesting. Do you feel this is true because of all the independents out there, or are you seeing this in post houses and large shops as well? I know my town is an anomoly, but I haven't worked with any shops around here that use FCP. Every place I've had to deal with is an AVID shop. My friend is a producer at the city and they are on AVID. The AP Affiliate that I work with sometimes is Avid, the local TV stations are AVID, the PBS station that I work with on a regular basis is AVID. I'm the odd bird with Vegas, but I just can't afford an AVID system at this point.

I know they use FCP up at FSU in the film school, but I don't work with them directly. Just have a friend in the program.

I know that different markets are, obviously, different. Here in DC EVERYONE used to be AVID.

Now there are only two larger post shops in town on AVID, everyone else is on FCPro.

All of the smaller and independent shops as well as they can buy more seats for less money.

AJA claims and promotes that they enjoy close collaboration with Apple. Today Apple announced new flavors of its ProRes codec in FCP7. ProRes 4444 samples at 12 bits per pixel and runs at 330 megabits per second at 1080/60 frame rates. ProRes 422 (LT) samples at 10 bits per pixel and runs at 100 megabits per second at 1080/60 frame rates. Since, the AJA-KI is ProRes based, does it/will it support the new ProRes 4444 Codec or the old ProRes 422 lightweight codec?

The ProRes 4444 is about 40 Mb/s, something that is doable on a fast SSD. This will certainly rival HDCAM SR quality, if the ProRes is a more efficient codec than Sony's (probably is because is newer). In any case it will have the added benefit of a very smooth and economical workflow from shooting, through post up to printing, that no other system can boast at this moment. Many aspiring directors and/or cinematographers have failed to understand how expensive a rocky production path can be, especially on projects destined to television or web. Of course you have to have FCS.

I wouldn't even be surprised if people were capturing Red footage on KiPro, kissing goodbye the 4K post nightmare, although I don't think that Red has a 1080p live out.
Certanly we live in interesting times in regard to budget HD acquisition that hopefully will upscale the production values of independent filmmaking.

Hi Jon,

thanks for all the detailed answers and patience when answering same or similar questions. You really go the extra mile for your audience and for your product! (I hope your boss will read this.)
When I first have read about KI it appeared to me as a competitor in the camera market. (No need to discuss this, just my gut feeling.)
Basically my understanding was that I could use my existing cameras (or buy a cheaper cam for that matter) yet end up with results similar to higher end (and expensive) cameras if the hardware built in the camera allows better PQ and resolution than its output specification enables.

Then I had to learn that Canon 5D MkII is not an option today due to downscaling its HDMI output. Sigh...
On the other hand I see KI product photos with tiny HD cameras typically designed for family vacation "jobs". Do these tiny cameras produce real HD results with KI?
It has also been mentioned by you that with KI one can produce better quality HD videos if the optics and sensor of the camera supports that.

Then there was a question about cameras and you have listed only 4 nice ones, however this list must be far shorter than the possibilities are.
Take Sony V1P (or V1E for Europe). Or any other 1080 HDV.
Which cameras can be considered producing superior results to their original capabilities when combined with KI? Only SD-HDI outputs and HDMI work? How does component outs work in terms of PQ and resolution compared to these?
It would be great to have a list of suitable cameras on the website with some details on how to connect them and what to expect in terms of HD quality. This might generate thoughts of potential buyers who may rather invest in KI than in a new camera.

thanks and best regards,

Zsolt

Barry A. - The first firmware release for Ki Pro will not include support for the latest Apple ProRes LT and Apple ProRes Proxy codecs, but this support will be added with a firmware update. All firmware updates for Ki Pro will be free of charge. Apple ProRes 4444 will not be supported on Ki Pro since it is a 4:2:2 recorder and does not feature dual link 1.485Gbps or 3Gbps SDI to support 4:4:4 input.

Emmanuel P. - There has been great interest in using Ki Pro to produce high quality recordings that may be superior - in terms of compression - to what is available from the on-board recorders in some cameras. However, for data centric cameras, like the RED One, the on-board recording can be of a very, very high quality and so the Ki Pro recording - which is essentially taking a "video tap" output from a data centric camera - should not be considered a substitute. The best results from a data centric camera - like RED One - are still those produced by the camera's on-board compression. Ki Pro most benefits video cameras with full quality video output that best represents the data the lens and sensor could produce.

Zsolt G. - A wide, wide range of cameras can be used with Ki Pro. This is why you see images of Ki Pro used alongside camcorders like the Canon HV30. That camcorder - though a small consumer/prosumer model - features manual controls that make it a viable choice. We have not produced a "list of cameras to use with Ki Pro", in part, because if we left any camera off the list that was a viable choice, we'd be doing the model and manufacturer of said camera a potential disservice if people formed the impression that they could not use it with Ki Pro. The best answer to give on the "which camera" question can be simply stated as this: select the camera with the best sensor, the best lens and the best video output possible to pair with Ki Pro to produce the best possible result.

Hope, as always, that this information is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

John Thorn - I am aware that Red own compression will give superior results. I was just thinking a way to bypass the Red workflow which is cumbersome, especially for no feature film projects. With ProRes4444 the quality hit would have been minimal, if any, the post production benefits enormous.

BTW is a dual link version of KiPro in the making? I still believe that it will be awesome for indie filmmakers.

Jon, would you like to comment on any updated release information? Any clue when we might be able to see these in the wild?

Emmanuel P. - Regarding your question about a dual link version of Ki Pro... We certainly won't rule out the possibility. Ki Pro was designed as a 4:2:2 recorder therefore it will not be able to record 4:4:4.

Aaron N. - While Ki Pro is not yet available, it should be available soon.

Thanks,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California