That sounds great Charles.

Here are the pics as promised:

www.techcrew.se/magiqcam/vest.jpg
www.techcrew.se/magiqcam/block.jpg

Hope this helps, and good luck with your books!

Thanks johan. What I see though is the side-to-side adjustment. Is there one for the fore and aft? I think it is the most important of the two.
BTW, that side-to-side adjustment that they've made is a pretty smart design. Very simple. Is the screw size for the side-to-side adjustments a 5mm or 6mm? Looks pretty small to me.

If I haven't completely missed something that is the adjustment that is. I can't see anything else, and that is the one they mention in the instructions. I understand now what you were refering to.

I quote the instructions:

"The adjustable Socket Block is where the arm pin attaches to the vest. By adjusting the bearing piece towards the rear and to the right, you can minimize the arm's natural tendency to move away and to the left of the operator. Simply loosen the screws located at the top and bottom of the socket block, position the bearing where you want it, and tighten the screws back. This will take a little experimentation to get the setting where the arm will stay in one place when the sled and camera is mounted to the arm."

That's what I suspected. They have only included the sided-to-side and not the fore and aft adjustments.

The fore and aft adjustments adjusts the rig from pulling away from you or towards you. With this type of adjustment one can determine whe neutral placement of the arm and sled. That is, making the sled hoover in front of you instead of wanting to pull forward.
As Charles P. mentioned once, it is one of the reason for fatigue and I totally agree with him. I only made the fore and aft adjustment on my vest because, as I mentioned ealier, it is the one I deem the most important of the two adjustments. It has made a huge difference. I'm just need to fine tune it a little.

Either way, the adjustment on the magiqcam is a good improvement over some of the low end models. Big plus for the Magiqcam

Mine will be here tomorrow. I will take some detailed pics of all of it for those interested.

I would think the fore and aft adjustments would be critical in making the adjustments needed to "center" the rig on yourself so your not pulling or pushing it. It's all about balance. I couldn't imagine trying to run a jib with only one axis to balance on.

Indeed. I had suggested the two axis adjustment to John at Magiqcam, and he had decided to just incorporate the one axis of right to left. I agree that fore and aft is probably the more influential of the two. The rig usually has a tendency to pull away forward and to the opposite side that it is attached, so the adjustments must be made in tandem.

The new Tiffen Flyer has a two axis socket adjustment, and best of all the whole assembly uses the same mounting screws as the full-size socket block that is standard on all front-mounted vests.

I'm looking at the Tiffn Flyer but it is 6K and everytime I look, it seems I'm pushing my budget up too.

I don't know but, the Flyer is looking really good to me. I'm afraid of the final costs after all the little things you need to have are purchased too though.

If magiqcam had more than a single adjustment, I would consider it, but (to me) its better to spend a little more and have both rather than fighting the rig for years. It's just really hard to pass up Magiqcam's price!

I don't know much at all about the Flyer but it seems to be "professional" and add-ons are available and is well supported...just dang expensive.

Someone once told me , "buy the best and cry once." Gads, $6000 is a little more than I would like to spend (I can if I really feel I need to though) and just like most, I'm just not sure yet which one to buy.

Most of the work will be television and other Betacam & HD stuff, so triax adaptors, program feeds, routing of cables, connectors etc are important.

Any other options in the >6K price range?

Hej Johan. Next time, if you're going to post anything for me or Charles P. just indicate it with the first letter in the last time. Otherwise we will get confuse to whom you're referring to.

I knew you were reffering to me but Charles P. wouldn't. He and I have talked about coming up with a solution to this. I havn't found one yet.

Aah well. the fight continues. :)

BTW, share some pics with us later as well as with anyone else.

Steven wrote:
"Any other options in the >6K price range?"

Yeah, the Basson looks very interesting, but it's hard to get any comments on it. http://www.bassonsteady.com

How about it, guys?

Wayne

Yeah...Basson is out of the country though and that kinda worries me.

What I think I want is a Flyer at 1/2 the price...lol.

Anyone using a Flyer in here?

The Flyer hasn't shipped yet, there are currently only two demo models in existence. I've flown it, and I love it. It performs beautifully. I wrote about it in another thread (sorry, in a hurry and can't find it at the moment). To me, the difference in the price tag is justifiable in terms of the performance, particularly in terms of the arm. I do understand that it will be out of many's price range.

Wayne, I haven't heard positive things about the Bassoon system, from a hardware and customer support perspective. I haven't flown it, however.

Sometime when you find the thread, drop it in...I would like to read it.

It seems to me that my options are kinda limited. I'll keep my options open and focus in on the Flyer. It seems like a good, solid, mid-range choice for me and I doubt I'll ever need to fly anything outside of its weight limit.

I'll go look for some links...

My Magiqcam is sitting at home. My wife sent me pictures by email at work....... tick tock, tick tock,,,, time............ I wanna go home... I will post pics tonight of the Magiqcam for those who are interested.

Where are you Scott? ;-)

I have been working with this Magiqcam for over an hour and I am not perfect at it. I hate it... Ok, ok,ok... You all know I am kidding..

My first impressions are that this is a very well made product. First rate components.

Now, after balance and such, I immediately noticed that a for and aft adjustment is a must and the Magiqcam doesn't have it. I find myself having to lean way back to keep the arm from taking off forward.

It took maybe about 30-45 minutes to get a good balance. I am still nit picking it, but it wil lwork for now.

The unit is very smooth and somewhat easy to control. Having never flown anything before, I was a little scared about how it all works, but this unit will make learning easy. Any problems are my fault, not the Magiqcam.. :)

I will post some pictures later and get a nice wide open space to really train myslef on the in's and out's.

Have fun with it Scott!

just received mine, well sort of. its in my parent house. will get to open it tomorrow. i'll try to post some pics on monday if possible.
i hope its worth the wait.

ed

<<<-- Originally posted by Scott Balkum :

Now, after balance and such, I immediately noticed that a for and aft adjustment is a must and the Magiqcam doesn't have it. I find myself having to lean way back to keep the arm from taking off forward.

Yeah, thats what I though and it has also been my biggest concern...

It only makes sense that you must balance on both axis to become "neutral." This would greatly reduce the amount of "lean-back" to off-set the rig. Sadly, because of this one little detail, it will take me out of the >$2K range. (good-bye savings...sniff...I will miss you...)

Steven:

If it makes you feel better, the Flyer not only has a 2-axis socket block, it has (compared to the other rigs in this weight class) a much more sophisticated and easier to use set of camera adjustments at the top stage; a very smooth gimbal; the ABSOLUTE best arm in its class (the biggest selling point) and an extremely good LCD monitor that is actually daylight-viewable. I have not gone on record as endorsing a Tiffen Steadicam before, and in fact haven't owned that company (or the previous holder of the Steadicam's license, Cinema Products) equipment since 1996, but I am an enthusiastic fan of the Flyer. I am shooting a short with the Mini35 in a few weeks and I have actually elected to use this rig instead of my own full-size setup as an experiment, and I feel fully confident that my operating will not suffer in the least, something I could not say about any other rigs. But again, the difference between $2K and $6K, while minimal in the pro Steadicam world, is a big deal for most DV users and thus the compromises are usually acceptable.

Thanks Charles,

I dunno but that sounded like a solid endorsement if I ever heard one.

I was "wishful thinking" but realistically, I know I have to move up to this price class.

I had to make the same decisions when I bought my Jimmy Jib and doing the research makes all the difference. No one wants to spend more then they need to.

I already knew there were many advantages, and had already made allowances to budget for the Flyer.

I would really like to know what your review is after you shoot the short with the Flyer. I understand at that price point you can’t have everything, but I feel confident that this will be a solid, mid-range rig that will easily pay for itself within a year. Fortunately, I don’t need a “full-blown” $66K rig but one with the ample features you have already described.

This gets back to what I was calling “feel” and “I” as a buyer have to decide at what price-point I have what I think is needed to perform my job. So far, the Flyer is the only one I feel comfortable with. What is really needed by me is, to strap one on myself, and have a go at it. It seems that may be a while, since none are available at this time, so your review will be very important to me and I’m sure, to others.

I would like to talk to you further by phone if we can, as I have some detailed questions.

I spoke with John on Friday about the block adjustment. There was something interesting that he told me that I didn't see. The adjustment for the block side to side, also affect for and aft. The block is actually not mounted vertically on the harness. It is mounted at an angle. He said he did this after to speaking with Charles and trying to come up with a happy medium. If he had to manufacture a 4 adjustment block, the price would have to go up considerably. By offsetting the 2 position block, as you adjust the screws so that the top of the block moves right, it ALSO moves back....

This actualy worked. I adjusted it and, low and behold, success. A great design innovation that saved money and works.

So far, very, VERY pleased with the design and unit.

Well, something I did not see or make out. I still don't notice it. A close up pic would probably do ;)

I finally made some hires pics of the rig. I know it's been a while and you can flog me if you wish. The pics are at http://www.viproductions.tv/magiqcam

They are not small (between 1.3-2.5 Mb per pic) but if there is anything else you need to see let me know.

Thanks for sharing Mark. Great pics. A little big in size but great.

I know they are large, that's why I gave the warning. Wanted to make sure noone said they couldn't see anything. Sometimes people want larger pics, some want smaller. Can't make everyone happy I guess.

No problem Mark. What kind of barttery are you using? I noticed it is being supported by small ball-gimbal type piece.

I am running two types of cameras on it so for the HD10 I use camera battery but for my DV500 or betasp, etc.. I wire into the dual NP1 battery pack. That pack also runs my lcd monitor.

Thanks. Two more questions. Is the dual arm have one or two springs per section? How does it perform?

Hey Mark,

How does the DV500 hold up with it. I'm assuming this is a JVC GY-DV500. I have the same camera (with a Cannon 18x6.5 lens) and this would be really important since this will be my primary camera most of the time.

The rig I have has one spring per arm. I have only had a chance to practice with it for a few hours but am planning on doing extensive test next week and will post my results. So far I am very happy with my purchase. I didn't expect a 60k steadicam so I wasn't let down. I have a friend who has a glidecam v16 who is thinking about dumping his rig for this one now. You are correct about the DV500, it is the GYDV500U with single NP1 Battery Pack (but running from rig power) and Fuji 20x lens. I removed the viewfinder to reduce weight on myself but it performs very well. Again, I will be doing more extensive test with that and the HD10 this week (hopefully) so I'll report back with the good and bad.

Ok, here is a video clip on my first day of practice. Nothing special, but I am impressed with the Magiqcam.

http://www.imaginationx.com/magiqcam.wmv

I've ordered one as well, all the way in Singapore.

wonder how long it takes to get to me... :)

Scott. At first I thought you hopped on a motorized cart or something to track that train! That's pretty good for the first day. Once you get that horizon leveled you'll be on your way.

Scott, looks like you got some good running practice in! Hope you didn't scare the kids in the train too badly--"Mommy, why is that man wearing the leafblower chasing us?"

I would recommend getting in some more sedate practice also in a confined space like a hallway where you can really examine your horizontals and verticals. Also, I think it's safe to say that you are gripping the post too hard, which we call "overcontrolling". Experiment with lighter and lighter touches until you are barely touching the post at all, and you'll find the horizon settling down on straightaways before you know it.

Nice going Scott. Better than my first day ;) Make sure you take all the advice from Charles P. wspecially when he finally comes out with his video.

Charles P.... You are absolutely correct. I kept grabbing hard, after each shot, I remind myself not to do it, and each time, I do it again... I assume it is a "trust" issue with the camera, that I don't want to trust that the camera will be ok with a light touch.

As far as scaring the kids, if you listen carefully, you will hear them laughing wildly when they see me struggling to catch the train........ sweat dripping from my face...

The "swaying" motion is definately hard to control. After changing directions on that train, getting the mass to do what I want is hard..

Very impressive!

First day? Hmmm...I can see your day rate already going up.

I had to set my Coffee down from all the sssswaaayinggg but the running shot was great!!

I AM concerned about the swaying though.

(Charles...I would like to know if the Steadicam Flyer has any advantage when it comes to this problem. Does the Flyer have any damping or other control features to avoid or lessen this?)

With the Magiqcam (now) since it has a type of "fore and aft" adjustment kinda changes my way of thinking.

Scott, how are the adjustments working for you? How well does the vest fit?

About the adjustment, I adjusted it far to the right which is also a little back. It is balanced now. So it appears to work great.

The vest fits, somewhat. It is a little tight in the middle. I am 6' 5" and 245 lbs. John offered to lengthen the straps but I said I didn't want to do that until I had a few hours in the drivers seat. The middle straps can be loosened and the velcro does hold well so it is proving to not be an issue so far.

Swwwwwaaaaaaayyyyyyyy.... I will certainly work on that... :)

This may sound silly but...say I was working a live concert or tv show and was using Triax or some other video out. I'm wondering how the cables "route" to not upset your balance and not get in the way?

I'm only 6' and 200 lbs so that part sounds good to me. What camera are you using?

If you have cable usually someone is behind the operater to
"manage" these cables. You will usually see them having the
cables on a loop in their hands so they can have a line to the
camera avoid of tension.

Yeah, I know about the grips but, where (or how) do you get the cables "to" the camera and control them? Do you run them down the arm or what?

You would have to run them down the arm. It could "mute" some of the free-flowing but it should work.

I shoot with an XL1s on my Magiqcam.

steven,
follow the link http://www.bbc-safety.co.uk/guidance/steadicam.html it has a pic of steadicam vest with a triax cable build into it.

ed

I suppose that vest with the triax adaptors is a option...uh huh.

Nice rig...

Busy little thread, here!

OK. Avoiding the swaying thing--that's why we make the big bucks, gents. Controlling the rig so that the horizon stays level even when changing directions is part of the acquired skill of operating. Any kind of dampening effect would undermine the effects of the stabilizer. That three-axis gimbal must be as frictionless as possible to isolate the camera assembly from the operator, but that also means that the system is prone to the effects of acceleration as well as operator input and wind. Practice is the only way to get around all of this, I'm afraid.

As far as cabling, the idea is to minimize the twisting action of the cable. My preferred method is to have the cable exit the camera as close to the gimbal as possible (tape it back along the camera), then make a good sized loop so that it hangs down about a foot to a foot and a half; then attach the other end to the shoulder of the vest (opposite the side that the camera is mounted). From there you can tuck it in in the back of the vest as a strain relief. Alternately to the shoulder mount, you can run it down the arm if you prefer. The important thing is having the loop so that the "pull" of the cable is minimized.

Triax is the stiffest, thickest cable imaginable and a real pain. Use a coax to triax adaptor if at all possible, this allows you to use BNC cable. In general, select the most flexible, thinnest cables you can find for cabling off the rig.

It's a great thread and very informative.

I always try and research a major purchase as best I can. Too much is on the line and this is about as close as I'll get to other operators giving first hand views...and I'm much more informed and educated about a product.

It really helps to make an informed decision.

... do I really need lanc / remote when I'm operating a magiqcam rig ? esp when the DVX-100 isn't a full lanc control and I can remote focus with one ?

Anyone please explain this to me ? I have a celebrity wedding coming up and hopefully I can do this right as a favour to the friend

(p.s. I haven't had both the cam nor the rig in my hands just yet - I hope the magiqcam arrives before this coming shoot)

Wesley:

Just as a warning--based on the experiences of the folks here (as well as my repetitious burblings of "practice! practice!"), it might be good not to expect to get great at operating your Magiqcam for quite a while (like months, not weeks). It all depends on your expectations. I just hate to see folks get disappointed with stabilizers. This forum alone has had plenty of "I just got my rig, and I don't think it's working right--it's hard to keep level". Mostly that's with the handheld stabilizers, I have sort of seen a trend with those who buy the strap-on rigs have a more realistic sense that it will take time to get good.

So if this shoot is as important as it sounds...and weddings are a big one, there's not much room for error!...

I have to agree with Charles P. I didn't expect to get good results when I got mine just from all the reading. I does take a lot of practice. I am getting better and better but I can see where the level of improvement, only goes up a little each time.

If it were that easy, wouldn't everyone have one?