Hi all,

I currently capture, edit and output with Pinnacle Studio 9 plus. I want to take the next step in software. I had alot of difficulty getting Pinnacle S9 to run properly and not crash all the time. I am considering to upgrade to Pinnacle's Liquid edition 6, but when I read their forums, it looks as though many of the Liquid 6 users experience many of the same frustrations I have had with Studio 9. It is a shame because I really like the easy to use interface of Pinnalcle. Although I do not know if Liquid Edition also has an easy interface as well.

As I said I am looking to take the next step in video editing but I do not want to steep of a learning curve as I will have to be self taught. My goal is always the best video image I can ultimatly output to DVD. As I said, I would prefer a "Pro" editing software that has an intuitive and easy to understand interface. Even if it meant it might not have all the bells and whistles of other more complex editors. I will mainly just be editing my home movies as well as some of my friends and families special events, possibly some weddings.

I am considring the Canopus Edius Pro 3. Does anyone have an opinion whether or not this would be a good fit for my needs?

Also, if image quallity is the most important issue when ouputing to DVD. How important is getting software like Canopus's ProCoder 2?

I might be misunderstanding what the function of software encoders are as it pertains in particular to capturing analog to digital AVI's to my hard drive. Are these encoding programs doing basicly the same thing as what already comes with your editing software, only at a higher quality? I have a new powerful PC, so I do not think I am limited in my options of editing software.

Thanks,

Mark

If you can handle self paced tutorials and don't mind reading a bit, the complete package from audio editing to video to motion graphyx to dvd output comes in one box: Adobe Video Collection.

Hands down the most comprehensive all in one dv production suite.

In a few minutes from now the Vegas users will chime in. Nothing wrong with Vegas but you have to remember it is a Sony product.

I jumped from Studio 8 to Liquid 4.5 and have not looked back. Now on 6.1. At $299 for the upgrade, it would be a deal.

<<<-- Originally posted by Jimmy McKenzie : Nothing wrong with Vegas but you have to remember it is a Sony product. -->>>

That means it'll actually work and not scatter files to the four winds across your hard-drive. I don't know of a product worse than Adobe PPro for wasting hard-drive space.

And the same self-pace tutorials are available for Vegas (and others...so that doesn't make Adobe special).

Best advice on this topic is repeated each time it is surfaced:

Download the trial versions, play with them, and then decide. Vegas users almost universally think you'll choose Vegas if you do that. Or you could just spend big bucks on the Adobe collection and then come to Vegas later. ;)

To repeat, there's nothing wrong with Vegas. It's just that the Vegas users tend to beat their drums a little harder. And that's ok with me too!

So I won't waste any of your hard drive space with a product slanted retort.

I agree with Patrick in that the demo versions are available for testing purposes.

Bon Chance!

<<<-- Originally posted by Jimmy McKenzie : In a few minutes from now the Vegas users will chime in. Nothing wrong with Vegas but you have to remember it is a Sony product. -->>>

Ummm.... So? What does that have to do with anything???

All NLE's have their advantages and disadvantage. I like the advantages in Vegas but realize others don't. I just demo'd Vegas for a couple of people using Pinnacle Studio 8. After seeing what it can do, they are in the process of switching (they said when they started rendering they were afraid to touch the machine again until it got done because doing so in the past caused it to crash way too frequently)

With the powerful scripts and the powerful audio tools available, Vegas IS a strong contender. Of course I think Edius and Premiere should both also be taken into consideration. I believe they all have demos available. It may be best to install the demos and test them each out.

Pinnacle Liquid Edition is not Studio...Here's some things LE users love about it:
1: Rock solid...Crashing is not an issue here, but if it does, it's got an auto save technology preventing the crash from wiping out your work. (Saves projects every .3 seconds.)
2: Background Rendering...While the computer is rendering you're working on othe clips. A Huge timesaver.
3: Mousewheel support. Frame X Frame advance with a mousewheel is very intuitive, but many NLE's don't have that feature.
4: Excellent Color correction
5: Dolby 5.1
6: I don't have LE 6.1, but as it has a standard windows-type interface, that is a little more friendly than my 5.6 one.

Some problems...
1: Title Deko (CG Package...) is poor at best. Very similar to the Studio one, and bulky at best.
2: We've been asking for plugins for Sonic Fire pro for years...still nothing.
3: Minimal 24P support. (Only works 2:3, and will not capture in 24P) This is a major issue for me, and is causing me to look to consider Vegas.

I know Chris is not a big fan of the back and forth diatribes that can quickly flame up on message boards, so I will engage you with one short reply in that due to a recent misadventure of overpromise/overhyperbole and under deliver/under support from the optics division, I can report that some companies still moniker their inherant product maladies as "normal".

But that's a bit unrelated to the topic at hand.

If they simply mentioned up front that their top of the line prosumer offering created unusable images, then I politely would have reached for the Nikon first. Chromatic abberation is quite a mouthful. Normal is easier to pronounce.

Now then, back to the topic.

Anyway, I am in large agreement with Bill in that while there are innovations in LE, the drawbacks of titledeko and limited audio tools cause this product to be a last considered option. Basic keyboarding functionality should/must be part of a titling package. I struggled with it as a previous dv500 owner. That small part of the equation is ironically the deal-breaker. In this example, Vegas would likely be the easiest and most intuitive migration. Then you could switch to ... you thought I'd go there didn't you...

"That means it'll actually work and not scatter files to the four winds across your hard-drive. I don't know of a product worse than Adobe PPro for wasting hard-drive space.
"
Adobe just needs to be disciplined, and told where you want things to go. That said, I learned on Premiere 4, and have used it since. I have not upgraded to Pro yet, because of my phobic reaction to XP. Premiere is a fairly simple and straight forward NLE to use, although it can be buggy.

With that said, Liquid Edition sounds cool, just because of its auto save feature... Maybe worth trying to find a demo.

So, the final answer? Download any and all NLE demos you can find, and find one YOU like.

The new autosave in PPro works great. Writes a secondary file and you choose when to save yours. Given the apprehention toward XP, I understand completely. Tweaked just right, this is a solid setup. Be sure you have a P4 2.4 or higher if possible.

No! No! No! I WON'T use XP! I won't, I tell you!

Without creating any nasty flashbacks, I just have to know: <whispering;> You're not using fat32 are you? 2 gig filesize limit and all? I assume you're on NT?

I'm using ntfs on win2k. I had my machine upgraded not long ago, and they gave me a bootleg version of XP. Aside from the moral implications, I just didn't like the feel of XP at all. So... I'll stick to 2k until they have something I like, or it no longer works with anything.

Thanks for the responses.

The reason I was asking about the Canopus Edius Pro 3 was because when I called their tech. support I was really impressed how much they were willing to answer my questions considering I had not even purchased the product yet.

I would like to know your opinions about this particular NLE. Judging by the lack of response can I assume it is not very popular among the Pro's. If so, why?

Also, any comments on my origianl question regarding the encoding capabilities of the Canopus' products compared to the others?

Thanks,

Mark

I just can't justify the expense of new hardware/software, until I get steady work. Therefore, I can't give an opinion on it. But, I'm happy with Canopus DV Storm's hardware.

Mark wrote

"Judging by the lack of response can I assume it is not very popular among the Pro's. If so, why?"


Define "pro".

mark,

i think the overall theme here has been test drive test drive test drive...but your right there is more to great software then code...canopus forums has some of the most helpfull folks on the web, especially the edius forum...

for example one edius board member created a custom website that lets other users list wishlists for future updates, and one for bugs, thats pretty cool, and even better canopus has responded to a number of those things

i have been avid user for some time now...and really always hated the premiere hardware shackles of dv storm...but that was then

today i use edius almost exclusively, it has been the only software that gives me the rt power to work in motels and air port lobbies all over the country, i use a pentium 3ghz with ht on and edius just flys, when i get back to my studio i upload my files and use storm to do my deck output...but on occasion you just can't do that, its nice to have that kind of real time power on laptop, give me a firewire connection and out to tape i go

if you ever saw those mac ads with the hd video playing on a power book, well it sort of like that, except that i really can play hd with cc in rt with no frame drops

it was not an easy road, i have been using edius since version one, and boy did that app suck, today version 3.2 (with a new version that will be shown at nab) has everything "I" need to get the job done...

edius's roots are in the news cutting field, it was not designed to cut movies or do special effects, it is a fast cutter, and all that comes fron the real time power..in japan and china edius is a house hold name in broadcasting...

edius is coming out with new features on what seems like a 6 month cycle, every 6 month an update appears with some minor updates in between, that is a very rapid develop cycle which we all like


main reasons to get edius:
fast, supa stable
real time full resolution output with no hardware, no drop frames
tied in with procoder my favorite encoder
canopus community
rt dvcpro and dvcpro hd codec support for panays new cam, 30p 24p ready

main things edius lacks:
it has no keyframing engine for filters
it has a lack of audio tools, (it does have vst plugin support, that is hit or miss with some plugins i tried)
no layer matte, or garbage mask tools

whats ahead, there is a new muliti cam editing tool that will be on display at NAB and a host of other updates...

by the way i also use vegas now, it is very cost effect, and has the best audio tools of any nle i have ever used, vegas can do some amazing things, but i can't use it on a daily production basis, just to slow..

and i have totaly dumped avid except for few clients i work with, to me avid just doesn't get it anymore...

also let me end by saying that fcp deserves a look, i love fcp and will have my own suite here soon...

good luck and test drive

Hey Rich,

Looking forward to your response. I have learned a lot from you on this site.

Pro, as in what a typical wedding videogragher might use or someone converting older analog video to digital DVD with excellent authoring capabilities. But as I stated in my first post. I will have to teach myself so I would prefer an NLE that produces an excellent quality video image, but has an easier interface when compared to other NLEs. I would be willing to sacrafice some of the bells and whistles. I have been using Studio 9 for
about a year and have really good understanding of it, so I thought I might be ready for something a little Prosumer oriented.

Also, what about stand alone encoders from Canopus, will they improve the video image a great deal?

Thanks,


Mark

Robert,

Thanks for taking a great deal of time with your answers. Tech suport is always one of the major factors in my decision making no matter what I am buying. Canopus really impressed me in that department.

You mentioned the lack of Audio controls. I have to say that even Pinnacle S9 has an excellent plug in for removing hiss on old VHS tapes called Clear Spot. Could I assume that the Canopus NLE's have this type of basic audio correction tools?

Thanks

Mark

you need to get
http://www.bias-inc.com/products/soundsoappro/

if you plan on doing any noise reduction within edius, which is $599 on its own...see what i mean, for noise reduction and sound compression i use sound forge...

edius has ways to go in the sound department, although there are a lot of free vst plugins that are worth checking out...

<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Zens : Pinnacle Liquid Edition is not Studio... -->>>

Don't think I said it was. Original poster said he was using Studio.

Keep in mind that Pinnacle was just acquired by avid. For whatever that might mean to the future of the different brands that currrently exist under the Pinnacle name.

i think that what editor to get should be influenced by the type of work that you'll be doing with it.

i tried to make le6 work before the le6.1 rev came out, and it was buggy as heck... some of the problems may have been fixed by the update, but in light of the aforementioned pinnacle purchase by avid, i wouldn't want to invest the learning curve on le6 at this point... le6 only has single-pass mpeg2 encoding for dvd... you cannot use procoder with le6, but vegas will frameserve to procoder.

title deko is better than the vegas titler, because it allows you to actually save the title outside of the project, vegas will only allow it's titles to be saved as presets... really lame, do you have a need to re-use your titles on different projects? forget vegas, you'll need to pay for a seperate titling app.

i went ahead and got vegas, despite the complete lack of support for editing hardware cards... it's a rather weird timeline-based app, that has no provisions for basic things like the premiere magnet function, only one video preview window, etc... vegas 6 is on the horizon for nab, hopefully they have fixed some of these major shortcomings... i do give it major props for stability, tho, it's never crashed on me... the rendering is *very* slow on my 3ghz p4.