Another NAB has come and gone, and I see stagnant Canon unwilling to take a chance and fulfill our promises, or rather slither away from promised future features...

... I'm talking about the SDK... does anybody remember anymore? So full of promise, ushering a new future of IT and video integration which pushed some of us over the edge, to give SD another chance, despite the reality of affordable HDV around the corner...

... what happened to you Canon? you used to be cool...

Now my XL2 looks like a monolith of inefficiency compared to the Pana 200.

That's interesting... from what I've heard the 200 looks like a plastic mockup next to a real XL-2 ;-)

Not sure what you mean, Alfredo... Canon was showing the SDK at their booth... of course it hasn't been fleshed out yet, but it was there.

In other news, the XL2 is a real camera... other sources from Panasonic declined comment.

None of us knows what Canon's plans are, but I am quite confident that they aren't idly sitting at a latte shop while their competitors run laps around them. Only time will tell.

However, I'll still throw a dart at Canon on the SDK. I'd suppose there are behind-the-scenes reasons why the SDK wasn't ready last autumn around the time everyone was scrambling to get their hands on an XL2, but they shouldn't have advertised an SDK if they weren't about to deliver one.

We'll see if an SDK shows up before I replace my XL2 with a HiDef camera! ;)

That's interesting... from what I've heard the 200 looks like a plastic mockup next to a real XL-2 ;-)


I know they had but a prototype, but you have to admit that this cam shows real promise... I hope Canon puts a cam out there that offers affordable HD without forcing HDV down our throats, DVPRO HD is marvellous!

The SDK might be "out there" but nothing of benefit to us... the XL2 will be soon phased out (It has to, everybody is offering some sort of HD nowadays) and the promise of SDK will be as obsolete as the "film grain" button on the side of my first generation XL2.

I feel like a chump.

Alfredo I don't mean to insult you but you are a chump!

You have a beautiful camera and you are moaning about not having something else. Why did you buy the XL2? Surely you knew HD was coming?

Anyways HD in this price range is new and I expect it will take a few years to really iron out all the bugs. So take the next few years and use your beautiful camera and then upgrade when HD is mature.

I figure though when you buy your first HD camera they'll just bring out a new technology called VHD (not HDV but very high definition) which you will be moaning about again. ;-)

Life's too short.

All the best,

Geoff

they'll just bring out a new technology called VHD Geoff, they're way ahead of you already. But it isn't VHD, it's UHDV: http://www.cdfreaks.com/news2.php?ID=8067

Yeah, no offense Alfredo, quit whining and aggressively market yourself. WTF? Call people, go see people.

Half of my gigs are with my XL2. The other half is film, or other video formats. Take this as a motivator, not an insult. Git!

You have a thouroughbred, let her run! All that HDV crap just makes us work harder.

Actually, I was desperately trying to meet one of the creators of the SDK at NAB but he was always away from the booth! >=( They were advertising the SDK at NAB for Mac and Windows. But nobody knew much about it except that one guy! Jerk! And no, there wasn't anything new at Canon's booth except that and the XL2 with P+S Technik adapter they had on display. But remember that Canon was silent during NAB2004 as well and didn't announce the XL2 until, what was it? DVExpo during July? Maybe they'll announce something during DVExpo 2005?

I know it's difficult to have already spent $5k on a camera just to find out that the competitors jumped over to HD so quick, that their cameras totally blow yours out of the water and it's too late to do anything about it. But look on the bright side, your XL2 is able to make great footage even using the stock lens! All you need to do is light well, plan your shots, and shoot in 24p and there you go. You'll have footage that looks a heck of a lot like film and you can always blow up to film and get terrific results there too. Trust me, I saw some footage filmed by Canon on the XL2 at NAB and I just don't think people are setting their cameras up right or something because that footage actually "was" film to me, I couldn't believe it. So don't fret, you've got the best and most capable SD camera under $10k.

What if you were me? I'm still using a GL1 I bought about two or three months before the GL2 came out and maybe a less than or a little more than a year before the DVX100 came out. How do you think I feel? =/

Ok, guys, gentle reminder here to keep it about the XL2, not each other.

Hi Jack,


Actually, I was desperately trying to meet one of the creators of the SDK at NAB but he was always away from the booth!
Actually none of the SDK creators were at the Canon booth at NAB this year. The product development manager was there off and on, maybe he is who you're referring to?


They were advertising the SDK at NAB for Mac and Windows. But nobody knew much about it except that one guy! Jerk! !
That "jerk" is a very good friend of mine, his name is Steve Duke and he's a fellow DV Info Net member. He is one the nicest and most polite guys you could ever hope to meet. Steve is not only well versed on the capabilities of the SDK, but he's also one of the most talented gaffers I've ever had the pleasure to know.


And no, there wasn't anything new at Canon's booth... But remember that Canon was silent during NAB2004 as well and didn't announce the XL2 until, what was it? DVExpo during July? Maybe they'll announce something during DVExpo 2005?
But NAB has never been Canon Video's show. Canon Video always takes a back seat to Canon Broadcast (makers of the professional ENG and studio lenses) at NAB. It's important to understand this concept, that a particular trade show is best suited to a certain division of a manufacturer's over another division. Go back several years anf you'll see that Canon Video has never used NAB for any major announcement (and probably never will, either), leaving corporate resources to concentrate on Canon Broadcast, since the NAB event is much more appropriate for that division instead. Canon Video tends to be the bigger fish in smaller ponds such as DV Expo, etc., and also the more consumer-oriented trade shows such as CES. Hope this helps,

Hi Jack,
Actually none of the SDK creators were at the Canon booth at NAB this year. The product development manager was there off and on, maybe he is who you're referring to?
That "jerk" is a very good friend of mine, his name is Steve Duke and he's a fellow DV Info Net member. He is one the nicest and most polite guys you could ever hope to meet. Steve is not only well versed on the capabilities of the SDK, but he's also one of the most talented gaffers I've ever had the pleasure to know.
But NAB has never been Canon Video's show. Canon Video always takes a back seat to Canon Broadcast (makers of the professional ENG and studio lenses) at NAB. It's important to understand this concept, that a particular trade show is best suited to a certain division of a manufacturer's over another division. Go back several years anf you'll see that Canon Video has never used NAB for any major announcement (and probably never will, either), leaving corporate resources to concentrate on Canon Broadcast, since the NAB event is much more appropriate for that division instead. Canon Video tends to be the bigger fish in smaller ponds such as DV Expo, etc., and also the more consumer-oriented trade shows such as CES. Hope this helps,

Oh..... sorry Chris, didn't know ^_^;;;;. Also, sorry Steve, I take what I said back. Well, it just seemed that way because he really wasn't there much and I got frustrated with that, I thought "Even if it's just some guy who's been trained to belch the SDK owner's manual back to you like most, he could at least be there more often!" ya know? And the Canon info lady said "He's one of the creators of the SDK". So, maybe it was just bad timing on my part, but in any case I didn't hear diddly about the SDK at NAB.

Maybe, since he's a DVInfo.net member, he could tell us about it on another thread? =D

Hi all,

Well I've been called a thing or two in my past, but I think ''Jerk'' is a first for me. One to put on the list, thank you.

As for the SDK, yes it is available from canon in XP format. The Mac OS X version is still in development and should be available in 3 or 4 weeks. Before you can get it you must fill in an application to be approved by Canon, and then sign a classic 'war and peace sized' software license agreement form.
My understanding is they are lookng for integrators and developers to use their software.

If anyone has any question regarding the SDK post them up and I'll try and answer them for you.

Steve.

Thanks for the reply, Steve!

Here's to more sushi at Ichiban as soon as possible,

"Here's to more sushi at Ichiban as soon as possible"

As a quick aside Chris, if you haven't tried Mushashino you are really missing out. By far the best sushi I've had in town.

Stephen, is there somewhere online where those who are interested could get information on the SDK, or the application process for it? I haven't seen anything on Canon's website about it.

WOW, if I'd have known I could have a monikor like "Booth Monkey" here at DVINFO, I'd surely have found a way to get to NAB! ;-)

Stephen, thanks for the words about the SDK, although I'm still not letting Canon off the hook. I just now checked and the SDK link on Canon's download site STILL just opens a window to register for DV Messenger. You'd never know you could get the SDK based on any official Canon info that I've been able to find publically. Unsatisfactory.

FWIW, I have no personal interest in the SDK, but have followed the situation with interest. Among many factors, "Support-After-Sale" counts highly in my book when one buys expensive electronics. So I take note how well (or poorly) customers are taken care of.

Alfredo, if you really want the SDK, sounds like you can sign for a copy. Enjoy!

Luis,

I don't know of any 'online' Canon SDK info.


Chris,

I'm finishing off the app we spoke about, but later on today I'll try and write up some info for the board. Where shall I put it, do you want me to send it to you first. (my typing disluxiory is well known).

steve

Stephen,

Hey, it was good to meet you at NAB. I'm keenly interested in what you end up coding with the SDK. Take care.

-gb-

Geoff, they're way ahead of you already. But it isn't VHD, it's UHDV: http://www.cdfreaks.com/news2.php?ID=8067


Boyd you haven't seen VHD yet. Blows UHDV away! ;-)

Best Regards,

Geoff

Chris,

I'm finishing off the app we spoke about, but later on today I'll try and write up some info for the board. Where shall I put it, do you want me to send it to you first. (my typing disluxiory is well known).

Hi Steve,

Feel free to send it to me via email, or if you'd rather start a new thread here then you're certainly welcome to do that. I'll let it be your call, whatever you're most comfortable with.

Stephen,

GREAT to have you here! I didn't think there was any Canon representatives on this or any other board.

I have a question for you or Chris about the XL2 footage that was mentioned earlier in the thread. Is there any chance that those of us who were unable to go to NAB will be able to see it? I would also be very interested in knowing how the camera was set up to shoot it. My only "criticism" of this camera is the documentation. It's probably wonderful if you are an experienced old hand when it comes to shooting video, but for those of us who are just starting out, it leaves a lot to be desired. For example it told me how to adjust the knee setting, but I had to come to this board to understand what a knee setting was and why I might want to adjust it. Now granted the board is GREAT, but it would still be neat to learn from the pros at Canon who design and shoot with this camera what they would do to achieve different results.

Best regards,

Matt

Matthew,

I'm not a canon rep, but run a production house in new york. However, I am well versed with all things XL.

My production house produced the XL footage you are talking about. I can say that we shot it as the default camera package. - 20x lens etall(sp.)

We had the product developement manager as our client the whole time we shot, from begining to cutting. We were not allowed to use any effects, color timing, other lenses and such like.

It worth seeing the footage, as it shows what a great camera this is, IMHO.

steve

At the risk of sounding like a complete moron...well actually I run that risk every time I open my mouth, but what is SDK? I guess I could maybe understand all of this outrage if I knew what it was and why it was so important.

Hi Matt, just for clarification, Steve isn't a Canon rep any more than I am... we're both members of a group of outside consultants that Canon USA calls upon occasionally to help out with trade shows and the like. It's strictly a freelance gig, similar to the work I've done for Canopus, VariZoom, etc. Canon USA has rather adamantly insisted that it does not want us to refer to ourselves as "representatives" in any sort of capacity, so neither should you. Hope this helps,

Hi Kevin,

what is SDK?
From my page at http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxl2/xl2skinny.php#features

"Software Developer's Kit -- has potential for a variety of remote camera menu access and camera control options via FireWire; availability to be determined on a case-by-case basis from Canon USA."

So what would the practical applications for this be?

Stephen,

GREAT to have you here! I didn't think there was any Canon representatives on this or any other board.

I have a question for you or Chris about the XL2 footage that was mentioned earlier in the thread. Is there any chance that those of us who were unable to go to NAB will be able to see it? I would also be very interested in knowing how the camera was set up to shoot it. My only "criticism" of this camera is the documentation. It's probably wonderful if you are an experienced old hand when it comes to shooting video, but for those of us who are just starting out, it leaves a lot to be desired. For example it told me how to adjust the knee setting, but I had to come to this board to understand what a knee setting was and why I might want to adjust it. Now granted the board is GREAT, but it would still be neat to learn from the pros at Canon who design and shoot with this camera what they would do to achieve different results.

Best regards,

Matt

Matt,

I'm with you on the manual not being helpful. I felt that the explanations of the new XL-2 features on the website were very helpful, including knee, master pedestal, etc. Check it out if you haven't already.

-gb-

So what would the practical applications for this be?
For starters, complete control of the camera remotely via FireWire.

What fun is that? That's like driving a race car with a remote control. What's next robo DP's. No just kidding.
That's great... I guess.

Hi Chris, I knew you weren't a rep, but I misunderstood about Stephen - sorry!!!

Is there any possibility of that footage being posted here?

Matt

Which footage, Matt? The XL2 demo material from last July when it was released?

I think Matthew was talking about that "great (film) looking" footage from NAB!