Promises unfulfilled... at DVinfo.net

Alfredo Castil · April 22nd, 2005, 08:37 AM

Another NAB has come and gone, and I see stagnant Canon unwilling to take a chance and fulfill our promises, or rather slither away from promised future features...

... I'm talking about the SDK... does anybody remember anymore? So full of promise, ushering a new future of IT and video integration which pushed some of us over the edge, to give SD another chance, despite the reality of affordable HDV around the corner...

... what happened to you Canon? you used to be cool...

Now my XL2 looks like a monolith of inefficiency compared to the Pana 200.

Boyd Ostroff · April 22nd, 2005, 11:13 AM

That's interesting... from what I've heard the 200 looks like a plastic mockup next to a real XL-2 ;-)

Chris Hurd · April 22nd, 2005, 11:41 AM

Not sure what you mean, Alfredo... Canon was showing the SDK at their booth... of course it hasn't been fleshed out yet, but it was there.

Matthew Nayman · April 22nd, 2005, 12:16 PM

In other news, the XL2 is a real camera... other sources from Panasonic declined comment.

Pete Bauer · April 22nd, 2005, 02:25 PM

None of us knows what Canon's plans are, but I am quite confident that they aren't idly sitting at a latte shop while their competitors run laps around them. Only time will tell.

However, I'll still throw a dart at Canon on the SDK. I'd suppose there are behind-the-scenes reasons why the SDK wasn't ready last autumn around the time everyone was scrambling to get their hands on an XL2, but they shouldn't have advertised an SDK if they weren't about to deliver one.

We'll see if an SDK shows up before I replace my XL2 with a HiDef camera! ;)

Alfredo Castil · April 22nd, 2005, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

That's interesting... from what I've heard the 200 looks like a plastic mockup next to a real XL-2 ;-)

I know they had but a prototype, but you have to admit that this cam shows real promise... I hope Canon puts a cam out there that offers affordable HD without forcing HDV down our throats, DVPRO HD is marvellous!

The SDK might be "out there" but nothing of benefit to us... the XL2 will be soon phased out (It has to, everybody is offering some sort of HD nowadays) and the promise of SDK will be as obsolete as the "film grain" button on the side of my first generation XL2.

I feel like a chump.

Geoffrey Engelbrecht · April 22nd, 2005, 03:28 PM

Alfredo I don't mean to insult you but you are a chump!

You have a beautiful camera and you are moaning about not having something else. Why did you buy the XL2? Surely you knew HD was coming?

Anyways HD in this price range is new and I expect it will take a few years to really iron out all the bugs. So take the next few years and use your beautiful camera and then upgrade when HD is mature.

I figure though when you buy your first HD camera they'll just bring out a new technology called VHD (not HDV but very high definition) which you will be moaning about again. ;-)

Life's too short.

All the best,

Geoff

Boyd Ostroff · April 22nd, 2005, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoffrey Engelbrecht

they'll just bring out a new technology called VHD

Geoff, they're way ahead of you already. But it isn't VHD, it's UHDV: http://www.cdfreaks.com/news2.php?ID=8067

Mark Sasahara · April 22nd, 2005, 06:11 PM

Yeah, no offense Alfredo, quit whining and aggressively market yourself. WTF? Call people, go see people.

Half of my gigs are with my XL2. The other half is film, or other video formats. Take this as a motivator, not an insult. Git!

You have a thouroughbred, let her run! All that HDV crap just makes us work harder.

Zack Birlew · April 22nd, 2005, 07:13 PM

Actually, I was desperately trying to meet one of the creators of the SDK at NAB but he was always away from the booth! >=( They were advertising the SDK at NAB for Mac and Windows. But nobody knew much about it except that one guy! Jerk! And no, there wasn't anything new at Canon's booth except that and the XL2 with P+S Technik adapter they had on display. But remember that Canon was silent during NAB2004 as well and didn't announce the XL2 until, what was it? DVExpo during July? Maybe they'll announce something during DVExpo 2005?

I know it's difficult to have already spent $5k on a camera just to find out that the competitors jumped over to HD so quick, that their cameras totally blow yours out of the water and it's too late to do anything about it. But look on the bright side, your XL2 is able to make great footage even using the stock lens! All you need to do is light well, plan your shots, and shoot in 24p and there you go. You'll have footage that looks a heck of a lot like film and you can always blow up to film and get terrific results there too. Trust me, I saw some footage filmed by Canon on the XL2 at NAB and I just don't think people are setting their cameras up right or something because that footage actually "was" film to me, I couldn't believe it. So don't fret, you've got the best and most capable SD camera under $10k.

What if you were me? I'm still using a GL1 I bought about two or three months before the GL2 came out and maybe a less than or a little more than a year before the DVX100 came out. How do you think I feel? =/

Pete Bauer · April 22nd, 2005, 07:17 PM

Ok, guys, gentle reminder here to keep it about the XL2, not each other.

Chris Hurd · April 22nd, 2005, 07:42 PM

Hi Jack,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Felis

Actually, I was desperately trying to meet one of the creators of the SDK at NAB but he was always away from the booth!

Actually none of the SDK creators were at the Canon booth at NAB this year. The product development manager was there off and on, maybe he is who you're referring to?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Felis

They were advertising the SDK at NAB for Mac and Windows. But nobody knew much about it except that one guy! Jerk! !

That "jerk" is a very good friend of mine, his name is Steve Duke and he's a fellow DV Info Net member. He is one the nicest and most polite guys you could ever hope to meet. Steve is not only well versed on the capabilities of the SDK, but he's also one of the most talented gaffers I've ever had the pleasure to know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Felis

And no, there wasn't anything new at Canon's booth... But remember that Canon was silent during NAB2004 as well and didn't announce the XL2 until, what was it? DVExpo during July? Maybe they'll announce something during DVExpo 2005?

But NAB has never been Canon Video's show. Canon Video always takes a back seat to Canon Broadcast (makers of the professional ENG and studio lenses) at NAB. It's important to understand this concept, that a particular trade show is best suited to a certain division of a manufacturer's over another division. Go back several years anf you'll see that Canon Video has never used NAB for any major announcement (and probably never will, either), leaving corporate resources to concentrate on Canon Broadcast, since the NAB event is much more appropriate for that division instead. Canon Video tends to be the bigger fish in smaller ponds such as DV Expo, etc., and also the more consumer-oriented trade shows such as CES. Hope this helps,

Zack Birlew · April 23rd, 2005, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Hi Jack,
Actually none of the SDK creators were at the Canon booth at NAB this year. The product development manager was there off and on, maybe he is who you're referring to?
That "jerk" is a very good friend of mine, his name is Steve Duke and he's a fellow DV Info Net member. He is one the nicest and most polite guys you could ever hope to meet. Steve is not only well versed on the capabilities of the SDK, but he's also one of the most talented gaffers I've ever had the pleasure to know.
But NAB has never been Canon Video's show. Canon Video always takes a back seat to Canon Broadcast (makers of the professional ENG and studio lenses) at NAB. It's important to understand this concept, that a particular trade show is best suited to a certain division of a manufacturer's over another division. Go back several years anf you'll see that Canon Video has never used NAB for any major announcement (and probably never will, either), leaving corporate resources to concentrate on Canon Broadcast, since the NAB event is much more appropriate for that division instead. Canon Video tends to be the bigger fish in smaller ponds such as DV Expo, etc., and also the more consumer-oriented trade shows such as CES. Hope this helps,

Oh..... sorry Chris, didn't know ^_^;;;;. Also, sorry Steve, I take what I said back. Well, it just seemed that way because he really wasn't there much and I got frustrated with that, I thought "Even if it's just some guy who's been trained to belch the SDK owner's manual back to you like most, he could at least be there more often!" ya know? And the Canon info lady said "He's one of the creators of the SDK". So, maybe it was just bad timing on my part, but in any case I didn't hear diddly about the SDK at NAB.

Maybe, since he's a DVInfo.net member, he could tell us about it on another thread? =D

Stephen Duke · April 23rd, 2005, 09:07 AM

Hi all,

Well I've been called a thing or two in my past, but I think ''Jerk'' is a first for me. One to put on the list, thank you.

As for the SDK, yes it is available from canon in XP format. The Mac OS X version is still in development and should be available in 3 or 4 weeks. Before you can get it you must fill in an application to be approved by Canon, and then sign a classic 'war and peace sized' software license agreement form.
My understanding is they are lookng for integrators and developers to use their software.

If anyone has any question regarding the SDK post them up and I'll try and answer them for you.

Steve.

Chris Hurd · April 23rd, 2005, 09:11 AM

Thanks for the reply, Steve!

Here's to more sushi at Ichiban as soon as possible,

April 22nd, 2005, 08:37 AM	#1
Alfredo Castil Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 40	Promises unfulfilled... Another NAB has come and gone, and I see stagnant Canon unwilling to take a chance and fulfill our promises, or rather slither away from promised future features... ... I'm talking about the SDK... does anybody remember anymore? So full of promise, ushering a new future of IT and video integration which pushed some of us over the edge, to give SD another chance, despite the reality of affordable HDV around the corner... ... what happened to you Canon? you used to be cool... Now my XL2 looks like a monolith of inefficiency compared to the Pana 200. __________________ Ask not whether you can afford to make it, but whether can you afford not to.

April 22nd, 2005, 11:41 AM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Not sure what you mean, Alfredo... Canon was showing the SDK at their booth... of course it hasn't been fleshed out yet, but it was there. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 22nd, 2005, 02:25 PM	#5
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	None of us knows what Canon's plans are, but I am quite confident that they aren't idly sitting at a latte shop while their competitors run laps around them. Only time will tell. However, I'll still throw a dart at Canon on the SDK. I'd suppose there are behind-the-scenes reasons why the SDK wasn't ready last autumn around the time everyone was scrambling to get their hands on an XL2, but they shouldn't have advertised an SDK if they weren't about to deliver one. We'll see if an SDK shows up before I replace my XL2 with a HiDef camera! ;) __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

April 22nd, 2005, 06:11 PM	#9
Mark Sasahara Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 649	Yeah, no offense Alfredo, quit whining and aggressively market yourself. WTF? Call people, go see people. Half of my gigs are with my XL2. The other half is film, or other video formats. Take this as a motivator, not an insult. Git! You have a thouroughbred, let her run! All that HDV crap just makes us work harder. __________________ Mark Sasahara Director of Photography

April 22nd, 2005, 07:13 PM	#10
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	Actually, I was desperately trying to meet one of the creators of the SDK at NAB but he was always away from the booth! >=( They were advertising the SDK at NAB for Mac and Windows. But nobody knew much about it except that one guy! Jerk! And no, there wasn't anything new at Canon's booth except that and the XL2 with P+S Technik adapter they had on display. But remember that Canon was silent during NAB2004 as well and didn't announce the XL2 until, what was it? DVExpo during July? Maybe they'll announce something during DVExpo 2005? I know it's difficult to have already spent $5k on a camera just to find out that the competitors jumped over to HD so quick, that their cameras totally blow yours out of the water and it's too late to do anything about it. But look on the bright side, your XL2 is able to make great footage even using the stock lens! All you need to do is light well, plan your shots, and shoot in 24p and there you go. You'll have footage that looks a heck of a lot like film and you can always blow up to film and get terrific results there too. Trust me, I saw some footage filmed by Canon on the XL2 at NAB and I just don't think people are setting their cameras up right or something because that footage actually "was" film to me, I couldn't believe it. So don't fret, you've got the best and most capable SD camera under $10k. What if you were me? I'm still using a GL1 I bought about two or three months before the GL2 came out and maybe a less than or a little more than a year before the DVX100 came out. How do you think I feel? =/ __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

April 22nd, 2005, 11:13 AM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	That's interesting... from what I've heard the 200 looks like a plastic mockup next to a real XL-2 ;-)

April 22nd, 2005, 12:16 PM	#4
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	In other news, the XL2 is a real camera... other sources from Panasonic declined comment.

April 22nd, 2005, 03:28 PM	#7
Geoffrey Engelbrecht Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Switzerland Posts: 56	Alfredo I don't mean to insult you but you are a chump! You have a beautiful camera and you are moaning about not having something else. Why did you buy the XL2? Surely you knew HD was coming? Anyways HD in this price range is new and I expect it will take a few years to really iron out all the bugs. So take the next few years and use your beautiful camera and then upgrade when HD is mature. I figure though when you buy your first HD camera they'll just bring out a new technology called VHD (not HDV but very high definition) which you will be moaning about again. ;-) Life's too short. All the best, Geoff

April 22nd, 2005, 07:17 PM	#11
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Ok, guys, gentle reminder here to keep it about the XL2, not each other. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

April 23rd, 2005, 09:07 AM	#14
Stephen Duke Booth Monkey Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: New York Posts: 30	Hi all, Well I've been called a thing or two in my past, but I think ''Jerk'' is a first for me. One to put on the list, thank you. As for the SDK, yes it is available from canon in XP format. The Mac OS X version is still in development and should be available in 3 or 4 weeks. Before you can get it you must fill in an application to be approved by Canon, and then sign a classic 'war and peace sized' software license agreement form. My understanding is they are lookng for integrators and developers to use their software. If anyone has any question regarding the SDK post them up and I'll try and answer them for you. Steve.

April 23rd, 2005, 09:11 AM	#15
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Thanks for the reply, Steve! Here's to more sushi at Ichiban as soon as possible, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!