Hello,

I am going to film the glaciers next month and want to capture some big chucks breaking off. Problem is i don't want to film for hours and hours of tape to catch this but this is what the "Cache" mode is for. Once the glacier starts to break off i hit record on the main record button and the tape starts and the "Cache" mode will save the last 14 seconds (The most important part with the glacier breaking) plus more until i hit stop.

Here's the problem. When i go back and watch the video off my CF card. It records the last 14 seconds with no problem, BUT there seems to be this one second drop out that always happens when the record button is hit. It's not a drop out but more of a freeze. So it plays 14 seconds ok, then 1 second of freeze, then continues to playback the video until i hit stop. It seems to be an issue when the record button is hit and the tape starts rolling it takes resources away from the CF card back unit, or something, not sure. I could simply hit record on the back piece and not even record to tape and this one second freeze does not happen. But, I don't want to have camera shake from me hitting the two buttons on the back you have to hit simultaneously to record. The main button on top is able to be hit with no shake while on tripod.

So, what could this be ? One friends said a firmware issue. I'm wondering if it could be the CF card. I am using a Sandisk Extreme III 30mbs (I Think 133x) card 8gb.

I should also point out that this one second glitch/freeze issue only happen when on HDV mode, when on DVcam mode it records perfect to CF card in cache mode...

I am in an area where I cannot find and faster cards but can get one shipped here if that’s the problem. I was looking at the new Sandisk Extreme Pro 600x or just might go with the Sandisk 300x but really don't want to spend the money if the issue is NOT the CF card.

Has anyone had this happen to them ? Maybe you can test it yourself on your camera and see if you get the same problem? I hope this makes sense. Help is greatly appreciate as i am leaving in 3 weeks for the trip and this problem is really annoying.

Thanks in Advance !

Mike Theiss
Ultimate Chase Stock Footage and Storm News Video Services - Hurricane Video Stock (http://www.UltimateChase.com)
Extreme Nature Photography and Commercial Images by Mike Theiss - Prints, Stock and Photo Assignments (http://www.ExtremeNature.com)

Just curious ? was my post confusing ? If i need to clarify i can.... I spoke to a friend in Australia and he says his camera does the same exact error. But, he is using the same CF card as me so not sure if that is it ?

Any Suggestions, Anyone ??? Please !

I am surprised at the lack of response. I would have thought more people would have used the cache mode and could answer your question. I have never used the cache mode myself but now I am tempted to try it just to see if I can induce your glitch.

Greg,

Yes, i am really stumped on this and don't know what to do. I have read every forum on the web and just can't find an answer as to why its doing this. Thanks for any help you can give me....

Since nobody has responded, I just tried it out for you. I have a Z5 so hopefully it would be the same. Anyway, it worked perfectly and I had no problem with the playback at all. I don’t know if it’s the card or the camera but I use Lexar Pro 16GB 300x. It may have something to do with the speed of the card. I have a question now. What would be the disadvantage of leaving that feature on all the time? I could see that really coming in handy.

Hi,

I use the exact same cards but with the unit attached to an xlh1. I have looked back at my footage and all appears ok, no droped frames in cache mode.

Sorry not to have been of more help

Mick

Does the problem occur if you are only recording to the card? The only time I've used cache mode on my Z7 was when I was not recording simultaneously to tape, in that instance it worked flawlessly recording HDV to a Transcend 32Gb x133 card.

Mike
I tested my S270 and I do not get any glitches on the CF or tape recording. I am using a Kingston 133x 32MB card. I tried both CF recording only, then with CF and tape recording simultaneously and neither had a playback problem. Doesn't look like it's a CF card speed problem.

Mike
Correction to my last post. My original test was in DVCAM mode. When I tried it in HDV mode my camera performs the same as yours. It might be a CF card speed issue but feels more to me like a problem with the iLink feed in the camera.

Thanks Everyone for testing this out.

Mark, Same here. In DVcam mode its perfect, it's only with the HDV that this problems. Occurs. One thing for sure is its not only my cam. Now yours and a friend in Australia too. I am hoping to get my hands on a 300x or more just to start narrowing it down. I will post when i find out. I should be in an area soon with lots of access to cards.

Also, i contacted Sony and spoke to a really nice person and he is supposidly testing this out for me. I will post and follow up i get....

Thanks Again Everyone...

Mike Theiss

Mike
I've read up on this and it looks like this is the way the camera works. It has to do with the encoder needing to start a new GOP when the tape begins to roll. so, there is a pause in the feed to the CF card. It's not a defect, just a limitation of the camera/CF card design.

Thanks Mark.

Yes, today i heard back from the Sony people and they said all cameras do this. It does not matter what CF card you are using. So i guess this is an issue i have to deal with. Thanks for responding....

I tried it out, it functions very well without any error, only if the REC CTL MODE is on EXT ONLY!!!
If I use the Synchronous mode the tape has to start up and then I had the same problem.
Normaly I always use the synchronous mode for the backup tape, but in the case of the glacier it will be better not to use it.

I shot it in DV & HDV in synchronous mode and did not notice a freeze at all. If I have time I'll try it again.

Dirk and rest,

Ok, i did some experiementing with (Ext Only, Synchronous, and Relay). In relay and synchronous the problems still happens. In Ext Only, i can not get the back unit (iLink) to record when hitting the normal record button. I understand that the EXT mode stops the tape from recording when the record button is hit but I can't get it to record to the back unit either (iLink). Bascially nothing happens in (Ext Only) mode.

By the way the pause error i am trying to troubleshoot is only when in HDV mode, when in DVcam mode there is no issue.

Anyway, Dirk so you said you got it to work right using the (Ext Only) mode. Are you hitting the actual big record button on top that normally starts the tape or the smaller buttons on the iLink unit. Also, are you are in Cache mode?

Thanks!
Mike Theiss

Hello Mike,
I use the normal big button on the camera to start and stop the the writing on the card writer. I use only HDV. This works correct on EXT only! My camcorder is a Z5, perhaps there are small differences between the Z7 and the Z5
Dirk PEL

Thanks Dirk...

yea, there must be a difference between the Z5 and a Z7. Because mine won't record when doing that, Darn.... well thanks for helping.

Hello Mike,
On page 86 of your operating manuel it is explained how it works. There is no difference between the Z5 and the Z7. Perhaps you make a little error in the setup.
It should be possible, when not go to your shop where you bought the cam.
Greeting from Germany.
Dirk PEL(NL)

Thanks. I have read the book and page 86 but still seem to be a problem. I am getting the symbol that says it does not recognize the external device. Anyway, i will do some more testing, Thanks !

Mike

Hello Mike,
Is on the cardwriter the cam link right?
See picture, it must be in the position as on on the my jpg!

Dirk,

Thanks for taking the time to post the examples, etc.... OK, i tried it again in Ext Only mode and still not working. I made sure the cam link was correct just like in your example but the big (main) record button still does not start recording to the CF reader for some reason. Hummmm....

If you're waiting hours & hours for the perfect shot, it might be easier to take the recorder off the camera & put it in the arm rest of the lawn chair. (You'll have to have another battery for the CF recorder & a FW cable.)

If it works by hitting the record button directly on the unit, you can get the shot w/o getting up! :)


...

One other thing to think about is the super slow motion mode.

You would be recording to tape, but you could get 12sec of cache at 120fps.

It would be a little tricky because you'd ONLY get a max of 12sec recorded, so you'd want to to time it to record enough of the ice berg breaking & enough of it falling. You'll also lose some quality & have to wait 48sec after the 12sec cache to record to tape.

Hey Mike and All.

I'm one of Mikes mates based in Australia.
As well as Mike has tried to explain this issue, It can be further clarified.

1. The Issue occurs when cache mode is on using the HVR-MRC1
2. The Issue occurs when the Sony HVR-Z7 Camera AND the rear HVR-MRC1 unit are used together.
3. It is unknown if the issue is present when using other cameras or Firewire HDV based devices.

NOTE:
In DVCAM Mode (Camera and Memory Recorder), when you have Cache on. It will cache around 14 seconds of video. When you press record on the camera and you (for example) record 30 seconds of video. The total time recorded to Memory Card is around 44 seconds.
THIS WILL BE A SINGLE FILE (Including Cache)

NOTE:
In HDV Mode (Camera and Memory Recorder), when you have Cache on. It will cache around 14 seconds of video. When you press record on the camera and you (for example) record 30 seconds of video. The total time recorded to Memory Card is around 14 seconds as one clip, and another of around 29 seconds.
THERE WILL BE A TOTAL OF 2 FILES RECORDED (Including Cache)
WHEN THESE FILES ARE PUT ON A TIMELINE (Edit Suite), THERE WILL BE AROUND 1 SECOND MISSING BETWEEN THE TWO CLIPS.

This is naturally noticed when playing back directly from the HVR-MRC1, as mike has experienced.

I have contacted Sony Australia about this problem, and will be lodging this alleged design flaw with them.

I have not been able to locate any firmware updates on the Sony website for the HVR-MRC1.

I have used the Camera without fault for over 1 year.. I'm very happy with its performance.

I never knew there was a problem with the HDV Cache continuous recording until Mike asked me about it.

I believe everyone with this unit may be affected.

I have used cache extensively, but never really knew it was an issue.

However with what Mike is doing, (Filming glaciers collapse), you WILL need the clips to be continuous (like in DVCAM Mode).

I have no idea why 2 clips are created instead of just one in DVCAM Mode.

Updates to follow...

Hallo all,
There must be a difference between the Z7 and the Z5. I just tested it again in cache mode. EXT only and HDV. There is in my Z5 MRC1 only one file and not as you explained 2. The scene I recorded is complete without any interruption!!
I do'nt understand why this difference exist, the only explanation is perhaps that the Z5 was later on the market as the Z7.

Dirk PEL(NL)

Just for the heck of it, did you try to use the Sony utility program to join them?
Never mind, that won't work.