Problem with "Cache" Mode

Mike Theiss · October 4th, 2009, 10:58 PM

Hello,

I am going to film the glaciers next month and want to capture some big chucks breaking off. Problem is i don't want to film for hours and hours of tape to catch this but this is what the "Cache" mode is for. Once the glacier starts to break off i hit record on the main record button and the tape starts and the "Cache" mode will save the last 14 seconds (The most important part with the glacier breaking) plus more until i hit stop.

Here's the problem. When i go back and watch the video off my CF card. It records the last 14 seconds with no problem, BUT there seems to be this one second drop out that always happens when the record button is hit. It's not a drop out but more of a freeze. So it plays 14 seconds ok, then 1 second of freeze, then continues to playback the video until i hit stop. It seems to be an issue when the record button is hit and the tape starts rolling it takes resources away from the CF card back unit, or something, not sure. I could simply hit record on the back piece and not even record to tape and this one second freeze does not happen. But, I don't want to have camera shake from me hitting the two buttons on the back you have to hit simultaneously to record. The main button on top is able to be hit with no shake while on tripod.

So, what could this be ? One friends said a firmware issue. I'm wondering if it could be the CF card. I am using a Sandisk Extreme III 30mbs (I Think 133x) card 8gb.

I should also point out that this one second glitch/freeze issue only happen when on HDV mode, when on DVcam mode it records perfect to CF card in cache mode...

I am in an area where I cannot find and faster cards but can get one shipped here if that’s the problem. I was looking at the new Sandisk Extreme Pro 600x or just might go with the Sandisk 300x but really don't want to spend the money if the issue is NOT the CF card.

Has anyone had this happen to them ? Maybe you can test it yourself on your camera and see if you get the same problem? I hope this makes sense. Help is greatly appreciate as i am leaving in 3 weeks for the trip and this problem is really annoying.

Thanks in Advance !

Mike Theiss
Ultimate Chase Stock Footage and Storm News Video Services - Hurricane Video Stock
Extreme Nature Photography and Commercial Images by Mike Theiss - Prints, Stock and Photo Assignments

Mike Theiss · October 6th, 2009, 12:40 AM

Just curious ? was my post confusing ? If i need to clarify i can.... I spoke to a friend in Australia and he says his camera does the same exact error. But, he is using the same CF card as me so not sure if that is it ?

Mike Theiss · October 13th, 2009, 12:27 AM

Any Suggestions, Anyone ??? Please !

Greg Laves · October 15th, 2009, 08:25 PM

I am surprised at the lack of response. I would have thought more people would have used the cache mode and could answer your question. I have never used the cache mode myself but now I am tempted to try it just to see if I can induce your glitch.

Mike Theiss · October 16th, 2009, 10:33 AM

Greg,

Yes, i am really stumped on this and don't know what to do. I have read every forum on the web and just can't find an answer as to why its doing this. Thanks for any help you can give me....

Rob Morse · October 16th, 2009, 06:16 PM

Since nobody has responded, I just tried it out for you. I have a Z5 so hopefully it would be the same. Anyway, it worked perfectly and I had no problem with the playback at all. I don’t know if it’s the card or the camera but I use Lexar Pro 16GB 300x. It may have something to do with the speed of the card. I have a question now. What would be the disadvantage of leaving that feature on all the time? I could see that really coming in handy.

Mick Jenner · October 17th, 2009, 02:37 AM

Hi,

I use the exact same cards but with the unit attached to an xlh1. I have looked back at my footage and all appears ok, no droped frames in cache mode.

Sorry not to have been of more help

Mick

Hedley Wright · October 17th, 2009, 02:39 AM

Does the problem occur if you are only recording to the card? The only time I've used cache mode on my Z7 was when I was not recording simultaneously to tape, in that instance it worked flawlessly recording HDV to a Transcend 32Gb x133 card.

Mark Triolo · October 17th, 2009, 12:07 PM

Mike
I tested my S270 and I do not get any glitches on the CF or tape recording. I am using a Kingston 133x 32MB card. I tried both CF recording only, then with CF and tape recording simultaneously and neither had a playback problem. Doesn't look like it's a CF card speed problem.

Mark Triolo · October 17th, 2009, 12:20 PM

Mike
Correction to my last post. My original test was in DVCAM mode. When I tried it in HDV mode my camera performs the same as yours. It might be a CF card speed issue but feels more to me like a problem with the iLink feed in the camera.

Mike Theiss · October 17th, 2009, 11:08 PM

Thanks Everyone for testing this out.

Mark, Same here. In DVcam mode its perfect, it's only with the HDV that this problems. Occurs. One thing for sure is its not only my cam. Now yours and a friend in Australia too. I am hoping to get my hands on a 300x or more just to start narrowing it down. I will post when i find out. I should be in an area soon with lots of access to cards.

Also, i contacted Sony and spoke to a really nice person and he is supposidly testing this out for me. I will post and follow up i get....

Thanks Again Everyone...

Mike Theiss

Mark Triolo · October 18th, 2009, 07:49 AM

Mike
I've read up on this and it looks like this is the way the camera works. It has to do with the encoder needing to start a new GOP when the tape begins to roll. so, there is a pause in the feed to the CF card. It's not a defect, just a limitation of the camera/CF card design.

Mike Theiss · October 18th, 2009, 07:07 PM

Thanks Mark.

Yes, today i heard back from the Sony people and they said all cameras do this. It does not matter what CF card you are using. So i guess this is an issue i have to deal with. Thanks for responding....

Dirk Pel · October 19th, 2009, 02:29 AM

I tried it out, it functions very well without any error, only if the REC CTL MODE is on EXT ONLY!!!
If I use the Synchronous mode the tape has to start up and then I had the same problem.
Normaly I always use the synchronous mode for the backup tape, but in the case of the glacier it will be better not to use it.

Rob Morse · October 19th, 2009, 04:21 PM

I shot it in DV & HDV in synchronous mode and did not notice a freeze at all. If I have time I'll try it again.

October 4th, 2009, 10:58 PM	#1
Mike Theiss New Boot Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Key Largo Posts: 10	Problem with "Cache" Mode - Please Help ! Hello, I am going to film the glaciers next month and want to capture some big chucks breaking off. Problem is i don't want to film for hours and hours of tape to catch this but this is what the "Cache" mode is for. Once the glacier starts to break off i hit record on the main record button and the tape starts and the "Cache" mode will save the last 14 seconds (The most important part with the glacier breaking) plus more until i hit stop. Here's the problem. When i go back and watch the video off my CF card. It records the last 14 seconds with no problem, BUT there seems to be this one second drop out that always happens when the record button is hit. It's not a drop out but more of a freeze. So it plays 14 seconds ok, then 1 second of freeze, then continues to playback the video until i hit stop. It seems to be an issue when the record button is hit and the tape starts rolling it takes resources away from the CF card back unit, or something, not sure. I could simply hit record on the back piece and not even record to tape and this one second freeze does not happen. But, I don't want to have camera shake from me hitting the two buttons on the back you have to hit simultaneously to record. The main button on top is able to be hit with no shake while on tripod. So, what could this be ? One friends said a firmware issue. I'm wondering if it could be the CF card. I am using a Sandisk Extreme III 30mbs (I Think 133x) card 8gb. I should also point out that this one second glitch/freeze issue only happen when on HDV mode, when on DVcam mode it records perfect to CF card in cache mode... I am in an area where I cannot find and faster cards but can get one shipped here if that’s the problem. I was looking at the new Sandisk Extreme Pro 600x or just might go with the Sandisk 300x but really don't want to spend the money if the issue is NOT the CF card. Has anyone had this happen to them ? Maybe you can test it yourself on your camera and see if you get the same problem? I hope this makes sense. Help is greatly appreciate as i am leaving in 3 weeks for the trip and this problem is really annoying. Thanks in Advance ! Mike Theiss Ultimate Chase Stock Footage and Storm News Video Services - Hurricane Video Stock Extreme Nature Photography and Commercial Images by Mike Theiss - Prints, Stock and Photo Assignments

October 6th, 2009, 12:40 AM	#2
Mike Theiss New Boot Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Key Largo Posts: 10	Just curious ? was my post confusing ? If i need to clarify i can.... I spoke to a friend in Australia and he says his camera does the same exact error. But, he is using the same CF card as me so not sure if that is it ?

October 13th, 2009, 12:27 AM	#3
Mike Theiss New Boot Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Key Largo Posts: 10	Any Suggestions, Anyone ??? Please !

October 15th, 2009, 08:25 PM	#4
Greg Laves Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 640	I am surprised at the lack of response. I would have thought more people would have used the cache mode and could answer your question. I have never used the cache mode myself but now I am tempted to try it just to see if I can induce your glitch.

October 16th, 2009, 10:33 AM	#5
Mike Theiss New Boot Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Key Largo Posts: 10	Greg, Yes, i am really stumped on this and don't know what to do. I have read every forum on the web and just can't find an answer as to why its doing this. Thanks for any help you can give me....

October 16th, 2009, 06:16 PM	#6
Rob Morse Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 427	Since nobody has responded, I just tried it out for you. I have a Z5 so hopefully it would be the same. Anyway, it worked perfectly and I had no problem with the playback at all. I don’t know if it’s the card or the camera but I use Lexar Pro 16GB 300x. It may have something to do with the speed of the card. I have a question now. What would be the disadvantage of leaving that feature on all the time? I could see that really coming in handy.

October 17th, 2009, 02:37 AM	#7
Mick Jenner Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: West Sussex England Posts: 843	Hi, I use the exact same cards but with the unit attached to an xlh1. I have looked back at my footage and all appears ok, no droped frames in cache mode. Sorry not to have been of more help Mick

October 17th, 2009, 02:39 AM	#8
Hedley Wright Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: England Posts: 45	Does the problem occur if you are only recording to the card? The only time I've used cache mode on my Z7 was when I was not recording simultaneously to tape, in that instance it worked flawlessly recording HDV to a Transcend 32Gb x133 card.

October 17th, 2009, 12:07 PM	#9
Mark Triolo New Boot Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Nevada City, Ca. Posts: 9	Mike I tested my S270 and I do not get any glitches on the CF or tape recording. I am using a Kingston 133x 32MB card. I tried both CF recording only, then with CF and tape recording simultaneously and neither had a playback problem. Doesn't look like it's a CF card speed problem.

October 17th, 2009, 12:20 PM	#10
Mark Triolo New Boot Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Nevada City, Ca. Posts: 9	Mike Correction to my last post. My original test was in DVCAM mode. When I tried it in HDV mode my camera performs the same as yours. It might be a CF card speed issue but feels more to me like a problem with the iLink feed in the camera.

October 17th, 2009, 11:08 PM	#11
Mike Theiss New Boot Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Key Largo Posts: 10	Thanks Everyone for testing this out. Mark, Same here. In DVcam mode its perfect, it's only with the HDV that this problems. Occurs. One thing for sure is its not only my cam. Now yours and a friend in Australia too. I am hoping to get my hands on a 300x or more just to start narrowing it down. I will post when i find out. I should be in an area soon with lots of access to cards. Also, i contacted Sony and spoke to a really nice person and he is supposidly testing this out for me. I will post and follow up i get.... Thanks Again Everyone... Mike Theiss

October 18th, 2009, 07:49 AM	#12
Mark Triolo New Boot Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Nevada City, Ca. Posts: 9	Mike I've read up on this and it looks like this is the way the camera works. It has to do with the encoder needing to start a new GOP when the tape begins to roll. so, there is a pause in the feed to the CF card. It's not a defect, just a limitation of the camera/CF card design.

October 18th, 2009, 07:07 PM	#13
Mike Theiss New Boot Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Key Largo Posts: 10	Thanks Mark. Yes, today i heard back from the Sony people and they said all cameras do this. It does not matter what CF card you are using. So i guess this is an issue i have to deal with. Thanks for responding....

October 19th, 2009, 02:29 AM	#14
Dirk Pel Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Karlsruhe Germany Posts: 42	I tried it out, it functions very well without any error, only if the REC CTL MODE is on EXT ONLY!!! If I use the Synchronous mode the tape has to start up and then I had the same problem. Normaly I always use the synchronous mode for the backup tape, but in the case of the glacier it will be better not to use it.

October 19th, 2009, 04:21 PM	#15
Rob Morse Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 427	I shot it in DV & HDV in synchronous mode and did not notice a freeze at all. If I have time I'll try it again.