Ok so this coming year of 2011 I have decided to do 2 things:

Firstly -- raise my prices a little bit since everyone is saying they are too low.
Secondly -- Instead of an hourly time deal, I offer two packages with "all day coverage" (starts at getting ready and ends at last event at the reception)

The packages include:
all day coverage,
2-3 camera coverage,
wireless audio,
editing,
final dvd(s)

The only difference between the 2 packages is that the first package is $1495 with one videographer, and the 2nd package is $1995 with 2 videographers and also includes using the 5D for some shots.

What do you all think and does anyone have any suggestions or insight regarding this?

Silas
Sacramento Wedding & Corporate Videographer | Roseville Folsom Tahoe | Silas's Videography (http://www.silasbarker.com)

I would honestly avoid distinguishing your packages by things like number of assistants or equipment used. Brides can't relate to any of that generally. Instead, distinguish your packages by products that your brides can relate to. You'll find it's easier to sell.

good point..........I don't list it like that on the website, but perhaps the first package is more documentary and the second more cinematic in a nutshell, because thats how it works out....

wouldn't you need to at least mention the number of people going to the wedding as the b&g needs to accomodate for their meals?

Hi Silas

My biggest issue was listing my prices in hours rather than give a "package" that the bride can understand. If you tell her "We cover the bridal preparation, ceremony, photoshoot....etc etc" As Travis says, she can relate to that.

However if you simply say 10 hours for $1495 ...she doesn't understand what she will actually get AND she can do some simple math and realise that you are charging $149.50 an hour (she doesn't even consider the editing side which is included)

Look at what you are offering from a bride's point of view...completely non technical and they will love it!! They don't want to know the specs of your camera and all it's features!! They just want a wedding film!!!
I have a mate who spends more time showing off his still camera to the bride than worrying about her requirements and he wonders why they won't book him???

Simply let the bride know what you will provide and she will automatically see it as excellent value against your price. When I dropped the "5, 7 and 10 hour packages" from my website, a few years ago, and changed them to "what you will get" packages...I never had a booking problem!!

Chris

Chris Harding:
Exactly!
That is why I decided to make these changes, and on my website I listed it in way that targets the bride....
Rather then having a bride select a hourly package like I used too, it makes more sense for me to just charge X amount and shoot the whole wedding and get everything that needs to be shot.

So I just wrote:
Coverage of entire day (getting ready to the last event at reception), Multiple Camera Coverage, Video Editing Included, etc

On another note, I am still trying to figure out if I should completely switch over to DSLR shooting or how to implement it. its slower to set up and not exactly run and gun, but then again, perhaps its more like setting each shot up if you go that direction..... I am not sure? Any thoughts about that?

Maybe I'll start a new thread....

We used to have an all day package.... Until we started getting into Indian weddings, then that changed very quickly as they can easy go from preps at 6:00am to open dancing not starting till midnight. I would always avoid anything in your pricing structure that would make it easy for a bride to try an eleminate in an effort to save money.

wouldn't you need to at least mention the number of people going to the wedding as the b&g needs to accomodate for their meals?

Those details come up when discussing the contract and terms. It's not necessary in your package descriptions on the website.

our clients ranging from asian to western weddings where the asian ones can start from 7am in the morning because of tea ceremonies, gate crashes and stuff while the western ones usually starts at 1pm.

I think its not fair to just price it by events because the workload is a lot different between the two shooting-wise and editing-wise.

We charge perhour starting from 10 hours and do a full day coverage package once the wedding is more than 16 hours day.

What are your take on this? would love to hear other people's thoughts as well.

Sorry Silas, didn't mean to hi-jack your thread but i think this might be relevant to you as well :)

Santo

Perhaps while discussing an Indian wedding or other type of event it should be stated what my "all day coverage means" or perhaps give a 8 or 10 hour limit if asked. That's plenty of time for most western weddings. But to the general western weddings you there is no need to say how many hours. For other cultures perhaps a clause in the contract limiting the hours or something would be wise.

I would say if you are doing multi camera shooting, do about $200 or more per hour. (includes editing). That was my pricing structure for my old wedding packages that had hourly limits.

My base package right now is
$1495
1 videographer, multi camera (2-3), glidecam, wireless audio
"all day coverage" (getting ready to last event of reception)
highlight editing 45-90 minute video
1 dvd

Its the unorganized brideszilla you have to watch for... some brides have some idea about time needed for makeup shots, location shoot, etc.. but some are just clueless

I have had two bad experiences with unorganized brides. They booked me for a package that includes an 8 hours coverage. Then closer to the day, I found out myself that the whole event is actually far more than that! I hate to break the news to them that I have to charge extra.. some will accept but some will argue and everything..

Ever since that, my minimum coverage is 10 hours.. and I will try to make sure before they signed the deal, they lock in the right package and emphasize to them that extra hour of coverage will apply otherwise!

wouldn't you need to at least mention the number of people going to the wedding as the b&g needs to accomodate for their meals?I can see that you are one of those who expects a free meal:-) There was a recent discussion on this subject with diverse views http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/484008-meals-wedding-do-you-get-fed.html

Hi Guys

I see Philip H hasn't chipped in here yet but I do know that his package covers the bride's wedding totally..if she needs an extra hour or runs an hour over it's all covered!!!

The way I look at it with most brides is that they have me for the day and yes, I usually start around 1pm and finish at 11:30pm for a Western wedding ... I am certainly getting paid a lot more than if I was working for a boss so for me, it's not a big deal if the bride wants me 30 minutes early or I have to wait 30 minutes !! I have allocated the day to her wedding and let's face it...you don't exactly shoot the entire 12 hours you are on site!! (Imagine having to edit 12 hours from each camera!!!) You probably have a good 2 or more hours of slack time as you are not going to film 2 -3 hours of dancing before the bridal farewell!!!

If you do Asian weddings and they plan morning tea ceremonies then put that as an extra!! I did a Vietnamese wedding where the first tea ceremony was at 8am, the next at 10am and the bride only got married in the afternoon. There is nothing wrong with quoting tea ceremonies as extras if they fall outside the Western hours od sorta mid-day to midnight (a lot here do the tea before the reception now)

For me a full coverage is basically from after lunch to just before midnight ...other specials are catered for as extra shoots!!

Yeah, the meal debate went on for ages !! I don't specify a meal but almost always get one...guess my brides are kind to me??? I have had a few where I didn't get fed and that's no big deal...swing by a McDonalds on the way home and grab a burger!!!

Chris

I present our packages the same way as Travis (Bride Prep/Ceremony/Park/Reception). I have included a clause that we leave the reception when all the amenities are done ( speeches/cake cutting/throw/etc). You win some, you lose some. Sometimes you finish early as the couple had finished all the amenities early, sometimes we get a request to shoot the midnight seafood buffet which is fine as well.

We do get hit with Chinese weddings wherein the groom should be at the Bride's place by 7am. So basically our package averages 12 hours/day, sometimes we end in 10, sometimes we go over by 3.

My 2 cents.

Hi Silas, my opinion rather than have 2 options. Make a foot note on the one package that says add another videographer for $ 500. Or keep the 2 camera package and add a foot note ( budget constraints take off $ 500 to make it a single camera shoot).

Brides love to have the power to choose.

Actually, Noel, that's not how we present our packages. Our packages are based on the products delivered (feature, highlights, docs, etc.).

To answer an earlier question, you definitely should have set hours. We have a one package system now, but even when we had 3 packages all of them had the same limit on hours. Unlimited hours is one of the best ways to make more work for yourself without getting paid for it.

We still have an hourly limit on our packages, though I would like to go to a full day coverage model for all our packages eventually. Right now our top package offers "full day coverage" starting 2 hours prior to the ceremony and concluding with the last main event of the reception. While this can be a 5 hour shooting day or 12 hour shooting day, it at least puts a limit on the time so that we don't start at 6:00am and end the next morning at 1:00am (most couples and guests don't have the stamina to party for that long). One thing we tried to do in each of our packages is add different incentives (besides hours) to entice people upwards. We get many booking our top package even though they only need 6-8 hours because of the other incentives that we offer and we get many booking our top package because of the hours alone (even though they view the added incentives as unnecessary) Either way, we end up booking our top package more than any other.

Johannes Soetandi:
I am sure there will always be certain brides who will take advantage of things, so I think the key is to get a rough timeline BEFORE you sign the contract so that you both know whats up. I am willing to take my chances on the "all day coverage" plan because I really only do western weddings. Like I mentioned 8-10 hours is ok, and I dont mind staying 30 minutes extra if I can get something awesome and make them really happy I did.

Chris Talawe:
My experience is that any decent wedding and venue make sure you get fed..they know you are there all day and working there if you act and dress professionally.

Chris Harding:
I am right with you buddy....if there is something extra and you know its going to be longer, I am simply going to mention that all day coverage is getting ready, ceremony, and reception, anything else is extra, OR if its over 10 hours then its X amount per hour.

Noel Lising
Good point about having just one package and adding the extra.......Question for everyone, would you sell more packages if you have multiple packages? I only want one, the $1495, because that way its just me and my cameras, I don't really need someone else unless its a large wedding anyways.

Travis Cossel
What do you think of doing "all day coverage" (which would include the getting ready, ceremony, photos, and reception) and then have a statement about its a maximum of 10 hours or something like that? And whats the best set of hours? Typical for me is 7 or 8 hours. But then the big ones are 10 or 11 or so.

Michael Horn
I like the way you do it with starting 2 hours before the ceremony.....that way if its extra early or something you can add that on the package. Thats a really good idea.

Full Day Coverage = 24 hours. No way am I putting "Full Day Coverage" in my contract. 10 hours is enough and I don't usually charge overtime if it's 11 or 12. But I have to protect myself from the bride who would want me for 24 hours.

Michael Simons
Please read the postings before making a comment. There is nothing about working 24 hours. Only what that means and how to protect yourself from working more then 10 hours.

Don't work for free... that's the quickest way to get burnt out on videography.

Please be sure to read the comments before stating anything that has nothing to with what we are talking about. No one mentioned working for free. "Full day Coverage" means a getting ready, ceremony, and reception. NOT 24 hours of work. It also means pricing accordingly. Read the posts everyone before making a comment.

Chris has kindly referred to our single price, comprehensive package, details of which are on our website so I won't bore readers with a repetition. It works for us although we are about to change to an even more comprehensive service - more news shortly.

But it's obvious we work in differing market environments and my model wouldn't suit say Santo's market. What I do think is that whatever model you use, you present your offering to your clients in language they understand. Use the current "universal" buzz terms if you must (HD etc) but don't bother promoting a second camera or radio microphone package without explaining what the benefits will be to the product and to the client in terms they'll understand and be able to evaluate.

I always recall when I was at boarding school and bought my first guitar (£6 in Shaftesbury Avenue, London and it still smelled of oranges!) I was puzzled when the old lady who ran the Tuck Shop across the road assumed that because it was an electric guitar it played itself.

"What I do think is that whatever model you use, you present your offering to your clients in language they understand."

This is exactly what my goal is in changing my package to one that is based on capturing the getting ready, ceremony, and reception of western weddings. Great thoughts

I can see that you are one of those who expects a free meal:-) There was a recent discussion on this subject with diverse views http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/484008-meals-wedding-do-you-get-fed.html

ouch. i was actually not trying to make it seem that i'm out to get a free meal. i actually don't eat meals in the weddings i've done since i don't want to miss anything. i just wanted to state that out since i had to deal with it one time and the b&g needed that info to rely out to her wedding venue. its just common courtesy. someone said it here that it definitely gets nailed down during the sit-down with the b&g.

I had a conversation with Alex Hill from Elysium Productions on pricing structure as well as hours of coverage and he brought up a good point.

If you don't have your business pricing nailed down to a common sense business model, meaning you're pricing to run a business that will last and sustain itself with sensible reasoning in regards to pricing, you're just making up numbers to charge your client.

That's paraphrased but hope you catch the drift.

It made me assess all my pricing and the work + hours I put into my packages so that if I was ever asked why I charge what I do by a business minded b&g, I wouldn't look silly. I sat down and calculated how much I need to cover expenses (people, gear wear and tear, etc.) as well as how much profit I want my business to make with each job (because we are running business right?), figured out how much post work was needed based on my previous experiences and then I arrived at my new pricing structure. It's shocking to see how underpriced you can find yourself if you start throwing in all kinds of services for little or no cost. I still provide great value for my couples and clients but I am compensated fairly for it.

Bruce Patterson also encouraged me to move away from the "multiple package" model and I moved into the single package with add ons model like Travis mentioned as it gives the couple power to choose but keeps me from doing work that I'm not being paid for. I start at a certain amount of hours and each hour after that is ala carte. It's priced to where I can account for the extra hours by justifying the extra post work and labor needed so clients won't pull the "you're already here, what's an extra hour or two for you to shoot?". That extra hour, per cam and per person, does add up in costs that I should not have to absorb due to scheduling. If it's like 15 minutes, I don't push the issue as I am within reason.

Providing a no set time limit does set yourself up for some issues. For a quick example, what if you had a wedding that started early at 6AM and was done by 2PM and another on the same day that started at 3PM and ended at 11PM? It's a bit of a stretch (and mind you I'm saying it's not 100% possible but it could happen) but you could shoot yourself in the foot should you ever have opportunities like that where you could do a double in one day. I'm not one to do back to back weddings though :).

All in all, if you feel your business can benefit financially from providing an all day package, go for it. But do yourself a favor and look at the actual business costs.

Cheers.

Travis Cossel
What do you think of doing "all day coverage" (which would include the getting ready, ceremony, photos, and reception) and then have a statement about its a maximum of 10 hours or something like that? And whats the best set of hours? Typical for me is 7 or 8 hours. But then the big ones are 10 or 11 or so.

As others mentioned, if you're going to have a limit on your hours I wouldn't use the term "all day coverage". You can clarify all you want in the contract, but if a couple gets the wrong impression from your marketing (and trust me, they will) then you're just going to end up with an unhappy couple at some point. You have to realize that couples will not pay attention to the details half of the time. They will hear the words 'all day' and then shut down their ears to what follows.

We use the term "full wedding story coverage", and the moment we mouth those words to a couple we clarify that it includes up to 10 hours of coverage. We talk about our coverage in terms of capturing their story, and not in terms of the 'day'. Obviously it is also clarified in our contract as well.

Please be sure to read the comments before stating anything that has nothing to with what we are talking about. No one mentioned working for free. "Full day Coverage" means a getting ready, ceremony, and reception. NOT 24 hours of work. It also means pricing accordingly. Read the posts everyone before making a comment.

Silas, "Full Day Coverage" can mean "Whenever I want you to start and whenever I want you to finish". Some brides start getting ready at 8am and the wedding is over at 11pm. Stating "Full Day Coverage" leaves you open to starting at 8am.

Andrew is right. If you offer unlimited and an Indian wedding comes a long you'll be sorry.

And if you say "unlimited" and then you come back with well it's a 10 hour limit and extra for each hour after that then Silas you'll make a lot of brides mad.

My site tells them "Up to 10 hours of coverage" for all 3 of my packages. I don't do 6, 8, 10, 12 hour weddings. I do up to 10 and they pay the same if it's 8 hours or 10hours. It has worked out so much better.

I also offered unlimited but that back fired on me as well. All the photographers I meet have set there packages up by "hours". The brides are use to it and I don't think it's confusing to them about what will be covered as long as you have a good talk with them.

Who came up with the package idea anyway :D

I can somwhat relate.. when I call a plumber I want this sink to go there, that tube moved there etc, and want a price to say yes or no to.

But people have read so much about 'packages', that they ask about 'packages'. I mostly do other stuff to cover the bills, so I didn't givce much thought to it, I have 'cermony only' package' and 'wedding day' package. No matter what I put in, talk, explain, put in contract or either, people wants a) discounts, b) tweakings c) ask for a lot more when the day is done (can you make a 2 hour video instead of the 1, can you make 2 DVD's to put in much more stuff, yes, we agreed to 50 photos for the picture montage, here you have 150, I know we said you could select any photo we supplied for the cover, bu can you reprint and ship a new set of 10 discs because the one you selected was actualy one we did not want..)

The customers are people who, just like you and me, wants a good deal, have no clue how much time is involved in making wedding DVD's and are generaly nice people. If you argue and nag to much about prices, hours etc, they will be alienated.

So, bottom line. I did try to raise the prices - just like insurance, to cover up for those weddings that eats up time (but then everyone turned in the doorway when presented with them), or suck it up and do what you can to make decent end products at a fairly reasonable rate.

But I do agree, it is a difference between a 30 min cermony and 30 min 'best of speeches and dances', and a 80 minute wedding followed by a 6 hr party with mostly speeches, acts, songs, scetches, slideshows, and the customers 'want it all, with nothing cut'.

no need to debate on why we offer clients packages. but people like options when it comes to weddings.

some videographers don't and most do.

I'm willing to work for less if it means less work and the bride is able to afford our price tag.

Shoe stores don't only sale $100 pairs of shoes. They have many price points.

Not sure I'm misunderstanding you or not, but it sounds like you're implying that clients don't have options with a one package system. Nothing could be further from the truth.

There are a number of reasons we switched to a one package system, and one of them was because of how much easier it was to offer options to our couples.