I agree with Pete. Frankly, I'm surprised at the Canon crowd who doubt their tactics. I'm expecting Canon to do for HDV what they did for DV with the XL1.

Jay
An overpriced camera that wasn't upgraded for 3 years? I hope they can do better this time around. Canon's only real advantage -- interchangeable lenses -- has been done and at a price point only about a grand more than the XL2. I've suggested ways that they can distinguish their "XL3." Despite protests that I'm dreaming, I don't think so. At least on paper, Panasonic and JVC have set the bar pretty high. Canon has got their work cut out for them.

I guess it is a matter of opinion whether the XL1 was overpriced. I never owned one so can't say, but the popularity of the XL line says something about peoples' opinions...and I certainly do feel the price of my XL2 was fair for what I believe to be the best-of-breed among miniDV camcorders.

I'll agree that if the real cameras match the claims in the Panasonic and JVC pre-production brochures and white papers, the bar is set high. But as is often mentioned, Canon likes to see where others left the bar before jumping over it. We'll see if they clear the bar again -- but if they stumble, I have my eye on the Panasonic. ;-)

Fairly priced now at $4,000 but not at the original price of $5,000. Even Canon admits that with a 20% cut in less than a year.

That's one interpretation.

Mine is that Canon is responding -- as any company must -- to market pressure. If the competition WASN'T releasing HDV cameras that are all the rage, I think we'd have seen much less price decline in the XL2.

Along those lines, my XL2's hallowed place is threatened only by HD cameras. Were affordable HD not knocking at the door, I'd be shooting with my XL2 for a long time to come. In fact, I'm not even so sure anymore that I'll sell the XL2 when I get an HD camera.

The jury is still out on the JVC as it is gradually being released across different markets (at least I've read it is arriving in some non-North American markets?), and there's nothing to say that Panasonic is any closer to product release than Canon. I've really liked my Canon cameras, so am rather hopeful that they will release a product that entices me stick with them. But only time will tell if Canon -- or Panasonic or JVC -- really deliver all that is promised by the companies or hoped for by us consumers. Whoever delivers that best combination of camera and price will win our wallets. I'm not ready to nay-say any of them yet.

Nice, Pete. I like that, well said! =)

tomorrow will be the big news!!! let's all cross our fingers.

In Japan, it is tomorrow already!
Lets see some action!

My bottom line is this: Until there is a reasonably priced means of delivery to my clients, HDV is moot.

Jay

NOT neccessarily. have you seen HDV resolution material downconvert to 480p? it still looks spectacular.

My bottom line is this: Until there is a reasonably priced means of delivery to my clients, HDV is moot.

Jay

DPReview.com has the Canon announcements on the (expected) new DSLRS and a bunch of other digitals.

http://dpreview.com

EOS 5D, full frame 12.8 mp.

EOS-1D Mark IIN

Here's (http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=NewProductsAct&fcategoryid=101)the official announcement from Canon's site.

Several consumer still cameras, several printers(go to the printer page), a couple lenses, a flash unit. Nothing in the way of camcorders. :-(

-gb-

Man, talk about letdowns. Sure glad I bought that Optura.

The 5D sure looks amazing, though. I'd love to get my hands on one of those (why can't Canon make it shoot 24fps instead of 3fps, though)?

NOT neccessarily. have you seen HDV resolution material downconvert to 480p? it still looks spectacular.
YES, necessarily!

lol, all the hype, i knew we were going to disappointed =).

look at my release schedule:
The XL1 was announced Nov. 1997 and shipped Jan. 1998.
The XL1S was announced Jul. 2001 and shipped Sep. 2001.
The XL2 was announced Jul. 2004 and shipped Sep. 2004.
The XL2S (XL3?) will be announced Jul. 2007 and shipped Sep. 2007.

The GL1 was announced Jul. 1998 and shipped Sep. 1998.
The GL2 was announced Jul. 2002 and shipped Sep. 2002.
The GL3 will be announced Jul. 2006 and shipped Sep. 2006.

if my predictions are correct, the GL3 HD-enabled cam won't be here until NEXT YEAR!

Looks like I'll be getting some Sony HDVs after all <sigh>. Thanks for nothing Canon.

Good grief people, just give it a rest. Canon said they'd do something THIS year with regards to HD and I'm sure they will. Just not on August 22nd apparently! =)

A pox on the first person who says "just wait until NAB."

Yup, still haven't heard or read anything that makes me think Sep/Oct is off the table for a Canon HD announcement. I really believe that the market pressure is going to force them to break the predicted product cycle timeline.

Yup, still haven't heard or read anything that makes me think Sep/Oct is off the table for a Canon HD announcement. I really believe that the market pressure is going to force them to break the predicted product cycle timeline.

Yeah Pete, you know that can be a double edged sword. If they respond to market pressures with a product that hasn't got all the design issues worked out, it could blow up in their faces. Let's just hope that they've been working this issue a lot longer than we think (like when Steve Jobs announced that they had been secretly running OSX on Intel processors for 'awhile').

Put me on the list of wishing for das 'Wunderkam".

-gb-

interestingly enough the 3000 d was not announced, its a super low cost dslr priced under that of the 300/350 6mp so maybe there is more to come

http://forums.photographyreview.com/showthread.php?t=13617

guys, remember, Canon has never catered to market pressure (AFAIK). it's all about quality, even if it's armaggeddon tomorrow, they STILL won't bring out a product that isn't ready. =). that's a quality that i like about them. when it DOES come out, it does blow everything else away. so prepare to be amazed in the next two falls (fall '06& fall '07?) for GL3 and XL3.

meanwhile, there's a word that perfectly describes the situation here: anticlimactic.

when it DOES come out, it does blow everything else away. so prepare to be amazed in the next two falls (fall '06& fall '07?) for GL3 and XL3.

I want to believe man, I do. I love Canon. But what are they going to come out with to top the HDX200, and will it matter if the market is flooded with them? Has anyone sold a DVX100 to buy and XL2? Few if any. They'd better figure out a way to build a mini35 into the XL3...

Greg and YFY, I'd also like to trust that Canon wouldn't rush a product out the door before it is ready. They've had as much time as all the other companies to see what's happening in the market and what's feasible to do in each market space. My suspicion is that they weren't giving their engineers half-days with long lunch breaks while all the other manufacturers were busy designing HD cameras over the past few years.

Canon is no different than any other company -- it can and does respond to the market to avoid financial Armageddon. Canon just tends to use different marketing tactics than its competitors, such as eschewing vaporware announcements. They do introduce excellent new products that sell well, at the time of their own choosing based on their corporate philosophies and tactics.

Personally, I'm not much of believer in this Canon Product Cycle theory. The past timing of the GL and XL lines isn't the be-all and end-all. With miniDV being the only game in town at the prosumer level until just recently, the technological improvement was in baby steps rather than quantum leaps, and I suspect overall worldwide sales volume was at a modest plateau. Companies didn't have much reason turn out new flagship products very often. But affordable HD is one of those quantum leaps; most serious videographers will make the move in the next couple of years (although some aren't ready to move yet, and will keep miniDV viable for a while), which translates to a LOT of sales. None of these companies -- including Canon -- can afford to miss the rush. So, Dylan, to respond to your question, I don't think the "baby step" DVX vx XL2 situation applies to the "quantum leap" move to HD that is just now gathering steam.

So, I still think WunderKam in Sep/Oct. Whether it will as good as, or better than, the competition...well, we'll just have to get our hands on all these cameras and find out!

wasn't it chris or someone that said that these DV cams aren't Canon's PRIMARY business? that lenses and other pro devices are what makes Canon rich? this is just one of those "hobby" business sectors to Canon, imho. regardless, i'm waiting. i just hope they release a HD cam that works with my 16x and 3x XL lenses.

Canon is no different than any other company -- it can and does respond to the market to avoid financial Armageddon. Canon just tends to use different marketing tactics than its competitors, such as eschewing vaporware announcements. They do introduce excellent new products that sell well, at the time of their own choosing based on their corporate philosophies and tactics.

...regardless, i'm waiting. i just hope they release a HD cam that works with my 16x and 3x XL lenses.

I'm with you there! A lot of folks have posted in other threads that the optics of the current XL lenses wouldn't do well for HD, but I REALLY hope they're mistaken. An HD XL camera body with adaptors to use XL, EF, or Pro Video lenses, higher data rate format like DVCProHD and solid state recording would have broad appeal -- from hobbyists like me all the way up the pro ranks -- and sell like hotcakes. At the same price, I'd easily choose that over the HVX200.

Ok the magic date i have heard is August 22 for new products from canon

august 22, feel free to reply to this thread on aug 23 on what a bs story this is, or on the other hand....

What web page should we be seeing this?

I know everyone is dissapointed. But seriously, could they ever replace my little GL2, is that even possible?

And darnit, I just spent several thousand on it a couple of years ago, it would be rude for Canon to come out with something 'better.'


Ok, I'll stop talking, pre coffee is so rough...

What web page should we be seeing this?

Patrick,

See the link I posted earlier in this thread yesterday morning. The section where they list camcorders was empty.

-gb-

but somehow, deep down in my heart, i know i wouldn't mind if the new HD cams used new lenses. =). shopping for these gears is so emotional *sniff sniff*.

I'm with you there! A lot of folks have posted in other threads that the optics of the current XL lenses wouldn't do well for HD, but I REALLY hope they're mistaken. An HD XL camera body with adaptors to use XL, EF, or Pro Video lenses, higher data rate format like DVCProHD and solid state recording would have broad appeal -- from hobbyists like me all the way up the pro ranks -- and sell like hotcakes. At the same price, I'd easily choose that over the HVX200.

This thread dead yet? It's the 23rd now!!! =D

One of the new still cameras announced is the S80, a compact point and shoot. Check out the sample high resolution video below. Even at 15 fps, it looks pretty good. I don't remember any HDV footage looking this good. Of course, the audio is horrible but that's another story.

http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/pss80/sample-e.html

That video is very nice... the stills are pretty amazing for a point-and-shoot too.