I have a weeding next week that the ceremony will take place at the beach.
The problem is that the officiant is a female and I am not sure how to clip the microphone to her with the Zoom H1.
Any suggestions?

I've mic'd a lot of females in my career and for the most part it's no different than micing a male EXCEPT I let THEM pull the mic up thru their blouse if thats where it's going. then I put the wireless body pak on their waistband of either the slacks or skirt they're wearing. If they have a officiants robe it easy some wear a jacket which also makes it easier. So it really just depends on what they're wearing.

Any sound guys I've worked with get the female do any detailed work, dropping leads down their front etc.

My advice would be to let her clip the mic, stow the cable and attach the recorder ... with your direction. My other advice would be to not touch her in any way without her direct consent.

A lot of female officiants wear dresses that don't have pockets or waistbands. If she has longish hair, clip the recorder to the dress at the back of her neck, then run the wire to the front. You can hide the recorder under her hair. If she doesn't have long hair, you're screwed....lol

Hi Don

Darn!!! there goes the little bit of fun that I used to have at weddings with female celebrants (that's what they are called here BTW) I actually did a Realty shoot with an agent yesterday and she had a dress on (no I didn't run the cable myself!!) There was seriously just nowhere to clip the transmitter...as long as the person doesn't mind, use their bra strap...it's secure and keeps the tramsmitter out of the way... That's the way Jerry Springer mics the young ladies on his show.

Chris

Yep done that also. Or clipped to the back neckline of the dress and even had the transmitter (body pak) clipped to waistband of panties. Absolutley no where else to put it. I've not used a thigh holster but I know a lot of folks do and they swear by them. Whatever it takes!

O|O
\--/

The other solution is to let your female second camera op do it. It avoids offending the ladies and pleases the men.

Hey Philip

Of course that depends on whether you DO in fact have a female second shooter like you do!!

Funny, this morning I did a promo shoot for an Oven Cleaning company and the "housewife" in the movie (she was the one beside herself cos her oven was unusable) had to have a lav fitted....yep, she was in a dress too but luckily it had a little belt so the transmitter clipped (hung???) at the back. All worked OK and no-one was offended...I do usually ask if they would like to clip the lav on but this lady just said "Go ahead" .... Obviously in those cases you must be careful where your hands go...I would suspect that most talent would understand that you have to attach a mic and you are a professional and will do the job respectfully. Most of our celebrants have their own PA and mic but for the ones I have had to clip a mic and pack onto I have never had an issue... I think just ask "Would you like to clip this microphone right here???" That shows you don't want to touch without permission!!

Chris

Chris, it was, of course, tongue in cheek but you know all my secrets! :)

More seriously, the most frequent concern all celebrants I've met have is whether there'll be any "interference" (I'm sure they use the term generally) between our mics and theirs.

That's why, despite my admiration for the BBC micing of the celebrants at the recent Royal wedding, I tend to mic my groom instead. It has the added advantage that it's closer to the couple who are the more likely of the three to speak quietly and, of course, occasionally we get those priceless remarks between the groom and best man as the bride arrives. Remember in the case of William and Kate we've had to rely on lip-readers to reveal what Harry is alleged to have said to his brother.

Hey Philip

My only female celebrant who needed a mic had no PA and insisted on standing about 4 metres away from the bride and groom so I suggested a lav and she was happy to oblige luckily!!!

I really hate the celebrants who won't go near the B&G during the ceremony and have a PA system with two little 6" speakers that totally distort. I always hook up the groom and then ask the celebrant to run her system to make sure they don't interact...Our celebrants seem to settle for the MICPRO system which has a built-in player and two wireless channels and they are a long way from my frequencies. The only issue I have had in probably the last 10 years was an Anglican Church who's PA system made a "putta-putta-putta" noise as soon as my transmitter was on. Changing channels also never helped so I reverted to my standby Azden VHF mics which were perfect!!!

I'm doing a wedding on Saturday in Perth's main Cathederal and although the priest's PA is good the 60' high ceilings and almost all glass and marble interior give amazing echo...which my lav still picks up but not too badly. I don't think there is anything one can do about that except mic the priest and they don't like that!!! Catholic ceremonies also have the priest alone at the altar with this echoing audio while the bride and groom sit down....I try and ask them to deliver the homily from the lectern (which has my 2nd radio mic) but most refuse!!

Chris

As you know Chris our clients complete a detailed client questionnaire and if they place a high priority on the homily we always point out - at the risk of swamping them with unnecessary technicalities - that if he is standing away from them or if the echo's very long, that the sound we get of that section will be poorer than the rest.

Then it's up to them. If they elect to retain it and decide afterwards they don't like it then it's a change to their specification and potentially chargeable. In reality we rarely if ever charge for a change like that ie one that clearly enhances our product but it does remind them that they've made some choices which have implications. It also allows us (if they're getting to be a pain in the castors), that we have cautioned them that any change might be charged.

Professional sound people can put microphones on people professionally. There's no need for rigid rules, you just apply common sense. If the officiant is female and sensitive with perhaps a clear comfort zone, then you don't intrude - you just explain where something has to go and they will ask for assistance if necessary. Equally, others will simply hold their clothes out, or up and expect you to do it. Proper actors are so used to it, they don't even notice - but the key is making them comfortable. I usually have some small bags with around the waist tapes for when costume makes hiding the pack difficult. Bra straps can be ok when little movement is planned, but the packs do have a tendency to fall off! when arms are raised. Bags are also most useful when faced with sweaty people - some sweat so badly the packs get wet, and salt eats away circuit boards. Also check that your fitting is toilet proof. There is nothing worse than them going to the loo, forgetting they are miked up, drop their underwear and neatly plop the pack into the water! Had it happen many times over the years with ladies. I've helped thread a mic cable up on a nun, and found places to hide packs on people with virtually nothing on - just part of the job.

As one recordist I know put it, we're like doctors getting on with the job.

As one recordist I know put it, we're like doctors getting on with the job.

Or like TSA agents during an enhanced pat-down.

Hopefully done with more grace and humour.

Most officiants I work with are like me, been there done that, so I usually just let them mic themselves while I look on...sometimes I give guidance, sometimes assistance, mostly they do a great job on their own...

my Question is with the H1 it doesn't have a clip. Is there a case for it with a clip in situation where you might have a female officiant with no pocket?

thanks.

my Question is with the H1 it doesn't have a clip. Is there a case for it with a clip in situation where you might have a female officiant with no pocket?

thanks.


Try finding a mobile phone case/clip that fits your Zoom H1. If you can't find one that fits, innovate with some tapes. :)

I suggest you all keep a wide elastic bandage (aka "Ace Bandage") as part of your audio gear. It can be used to make a waist or thigh belt which you can clip the mic on to. If the officiant is wearing a robe, this is easily concealed. If not, you can ask her to strap the mic to the back of her thigh - but above the skirt line.

I work at a tv station, and our female meteorologist wears dresses a lot. She always keeps her wireless pack strapped to her thigh with the elastic, and it works great - and is easy to remove.

Angelo

I may be under-rating the average female celebrant but my sense is that they'd be less than happy to strap a radio mic transmitter to their upper thigh than you suggest. It's a good idea though.

quite a bit of discussion about touching females here which I'm sure we can all deal with sensitively (would it be the same with a female putting a mic on a male I wonder.. a silly debate waiting to happen!) HOWEVER... what do you guys do if the female has a dress on with no waistband, pocket or anything. My recorder (zoom h1 in a phone case) is way to big to hide under their hair.. This stumps me regularly!

quite a bit of discussion about touching females here which I'm sure we can all deal with sensitively (would it be the same with a female putting a mic on a male I wonder.. a silly debate waiting to happen!) HOWEVER... what do you guys do if the female has a dress on with no waistband, pocket or anything. My recorder (zoom h1 in a phone case) is way to big to hide under their hair.. This stumps me regularly!
In a professional video production you would just tape the recorder to her thigh. I don't know if female celebrants are likely to be as co-operative but you can always ask:-)

maybe I'll give it a go! If you never hear from me again you know it didn't work and I can be contacted through her majesty's prison service!

For female celebrants you can forget it - it simply aint gonna happen most of the time. Even if they are willing then more often than not they will not have suitable clothing to attach to, you can't put a belt on them, and you can't start messing around with hair bra straps or thighs. The male celebrants are not much easier. And if you do get one wired up there is a strong chance that they will forget and rush off to their next appointment before you get the chance to retrieve your gear.

The good news is that frequently the groom is sufficiently close enough to the celebrant for his lav to pick up usable audio. Also you can hide lavs / H1's etc in suitable nearby flower arrangements etc.

Or get a feed off the celebrants deck into your recorder if available - or tune to their wireless frequency if you are both using compatible gear (unlikely!).

If the celebrant is going to be too far away from any lav or recorder and cannot be wired up a trick I have used is to attach a Sennheiser G3 transmitter and lav to the folder which they almost invariably carry. The G3 transmitters clip works fine but if I were attaching an H1 (or preferably a much smaller "dictafone" type device including lav) I'd gaffer tape it down to the folder. Don't be tempted to just use the H1's onboard mics as you are likely to get a lot of handling noise.

Here is a photo of a G3 attached to a folder:

http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/images/dvi/celeb1.jpg

Or again if the celebrant is using some form or wired or wireless mic you may be able to tape a small Yamaha or Olympus type recorder to it.

Pete

One way we did it once was scrunch up the fabric of the dress under the armpit and clip the transmitter there.

Don't know how many female celebrants would agree to such a procedure. These days if they show up with a sheer dress, I just get my audio from elsewhere.

For this kind of thing in theatre, we usually just use a small pouch, usually white, with a couple of ties to go around their waist. As to a celebrant wanting to do this, I'm not sure.

Rather sadly, I've noticed over the past year and a bit that many male sound people are much more concerned than they have been previously to touch. In the past, in theatre, the girls would just pull their skirt up and you fixed it - now, in the wake of the Jimmy Saville trial, people are more wary. I bumped into an actress and her husband, when I was with my wife - she said "Hello Paul, haven't seen you since the last time you hand your hand up my skirt" Everyone laughed, not so sure now - it's a bit sad.

The most obvious first step in all this is, the Monday before hand, contact your celebrant/pastor in advance to introduce yourself, and talk about potential issues.

Along with audio, we also talk about camera positions, and ask if they have any concerns.

If they're amiable enough, I simply ask if they can wear an outfit with pockets, or a belt. I let them know our unit is about the size of, but lighter than a deck of cards, and I take care of everything - they don't have to deal with anything (other than wearing it). I also make it clear its audio for the video and the guests won't hear it, and that I edit it, so they don't have to worry about asides or instructions they don't intend to be broadcast. If a little extra sugar is needed, I might slip in that we're just trying to make sure that the lord's message is included in their wedding video as much as the songs or vows ;)

Robert I agree and it's easy as pie in a church environment but in the UK often registrar's are not allocated their weddings until the morning of the wedding itself and they have 5 or 6 to do in a day sometimes so phoning round trying to work out who the registrar will be before the wedding is always going to be a bit of a nightmare.

Here is a photo of a G3 attached to a folder:

http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/images/dvi/celeb1.jpg

Thats a nice idea Pete, obviously depends on what the registrar is holding a lot of the time but it doesn't look too bad clipped on the back with a lav stuck to a blank part of the folder, obviously some wind noise when turning page is likely but thats a small price to pay,

I just wish I hadn't sold my sennheiser transmitter and lav mic through lack of use (I only ever use the receiver to take a wireless signal at a venue)

If I find a decent Zoom H1 (or even buy a new smaller recorder for it .. any recommendations?) clip on case instead of the flimsy phone case I use now, then attaching this to the rear with the lav mic might be a good solution.

in the UK often registrar's are not allocated their weddings until the morning of the wedding itself and they have 5 or 6 to do in a day sometimes so phoning round trying to work out who the registrar will be before the wedding is always going to be a bit of a nightmare

In addition a certain proportion regard you as the enemy. It can be a better strategy to spring stuff on them at the last moment when there is no time for them to be obstructive.

wish I hadn't sold my sennheiser transmitter and lav mic

You can get decent almost new G3 sets on Ebay for about £120 less than the new retail price. Check the seller obviously. Get the G3 rather than earlier ones as its diversity antenna setup is more capable of good performance when the units are orientated in less than perfect alignments. And get the 606-614 frequency band.

I'd buy a smaller unit than the H1 for clipping on. Recently I got an Olympus VN-733PC following Noa's very insistent advice that such units can be very useful :- )

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00HH1P6GI/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It was on an Amazon lightning deal at £40. There are loads of similar units. You could gaffer tape it on - use genuine photographers gaffer tape as it doesn't leave a residue. These velcro straps are useful for attaching recorders, lavs etc to venue mic stalks etc quickly:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00E8620S2/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Pete

Spot on about them seeing us as the enemy Peter!

I might give that audio recorder a try. If nothing else it can replace just one of my H1's for now, the one that I put in the grooms pocket for the ceremony is often a bit big if he has a fitted suit on. I'll research now but I assume it can take a micro SD card and crucially, it's reliable? Ive noticed it only records mp3 and not wav so not sure it could replace my H1's. If you still have the link to the thread where you were talked into it please do let me know I'd love to read..

I think the one I sold was a G2 and I sold it as I wasn't happy with the wireless performance even when stood 20ft away if the talent turned to the side or faced away from me sometimes it would cut out which even though I could monitor the audio over the H1's, wasn't worth the trade off.

I'll try the small Olympus first and if I;m not keen I may buy another sennheiser. My existing receiver is on the 830-866mhz band, would you say that's not a great one to be on? I do find on the occasions I can get access to the frequency of a mic it's 50/50 as to whether my receiver is compatible. Why do you recommend the 606-614 particularly?

David I simply bought that recorder because it was on a special offer with Amazon that day at £40 rather than its usual volatile price of £48 - £58. I wasn't expecting much from it, just for it to do a decent job in situations where my other kit could not be used such as strapping it to a venue's wireless handheld mic when that is being handed around to numerous different speakers in the reception.

It does a decent enough job. It has no manual levels but it does OK. Its MP3 only but I can live with that - 48-16 WAV only really comes into its own if you need to do heavy duty editing anyway. It has an onboard memory but I use a separate 2gb micro SD card as I always prefer cards in case anything goes wrong.

There are a lot of alternatives from Olympus Philips Yamaha etc and the one that many members have used is the discontinued Yamaha C24. If you search on that you should find lots of opinions. Its nice if you can get one with a 1/4"x20 bush in the back for extra flexibility but they can be hard to find.

Yes with the G2 and earlier you were supposed to always have the transmitter and receiver both upright for reliable reception but with the G3 diversity antenna thats not an issue any more over the short uninterrupted distances usually found at weddings.

606-614 (606 to 648 actually but the basic Senny units are 606-614) is the authorised licensable band available post the 2012 regulations. Also known as Channel 38. There is one other band in the 800's maybe in the band of your current G2 and that does not require licensing, but it is narrow and likely to be very busy, and possibly suffer some interference. A G3 transmitter will work with a G2 receiver but with some functionality missing. A G3 transmitter on its own usually goes for a high price on Ebay so I'd be tempted to get an entire G3 kit.

As we know a wireless kit is not an essential for weddings most of the time but it is nice to have even just one to go from the groom directly into one channel of the main cam.

Pete

Thanks for the advice Pete, I really appreciate it. I think I'm going to go for a tiny mp3 recorder (one of the ones you suggested) for those desperation moments you mention. I've been inspired by your photo of it clipped on the registrars folder I think thats a great idea. Do you recommend any particular lav to be used for that sort of situation? I suppose omnidirectional as you wont be able to easily angle the lav directly at the registrars mouth with gaffer tape or velcro..

You absolutely must use an omnidirectional lav in that scenario. All your lavs are probably omni anyway. A narrower pickup pattern would kill you just as it would attached to a persons tie when they turn their head sideways. The clip that comes with most lavs should be enough but you could add extra security with a bit of heavy duty black Blutak:

Black Tack 19mm x 1m, high strength adhesive putty for: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-black-strength-adhesive-photographers/dp/B0051BT40K)

I often use that for attaching lavs to lecterns etc.

Pete

the mics I use are ATR3350's which have a battery pack inline so that probably wont be too good for this scenario. The other one I have for better quality sound (I use it on the groom for ceremony) is the Rode Lavalier which has no battery pack but at £150 its quite expensive to use with an mp3 recorder.. any recommendations on a decent low cost mic to use with the Olympus in this situation?

I tried clipping onto the registrars jacket up high on the next line today and hid the recorder under her hair.. it worked really well!

One of my mics however did let me down on a best man speech, I assume a connection where I had to cut some hugely excessive cable out of the ATR3350 and re-solder so in short.. I'm still looking for suggestions for affordable lavalier mics that do not need external power supplies and don't have a 200ft cable like the ATR3350!

Azden EX-503 Lavalier Microphone EX-503 B&H Photo Video

I use this with my Tascam DR-05 and it hasn't let me down. Decent sound and for the money, you can buy a bunch of them.

All my lavs are also 503's ..they work well and take a lot of abuse ..So far in 15 years I had to replace just one of them as the cable had a break right near the body of the mic so it wasn't worth the hassle of trying to cut away the body to resolder the cable. I get them from Azden direct for a mere $20.00!

They also make variations of the 503 if you need a 3.5mm screw fitting and also with different plugs.

Chris

We have to be more careful in the U.S. 5 or so years ago they changed the microphone frequencies on us, and everybody had to change over. I held out for a few years, but slowly started getting more interference. Now, a few years later, there are murmurs it will happen again.

Obnoxiously, as a DJ, I have a couple of nice wireless microphones, 2 handheld, one headset, one lavalier. Unfortunately, the receiver isn't portable at all, which means its not really suitable for video work. I suppose it would be great for a service with a bunch of vicars, though.... I'd just setup my usual rig, run all the mics into my mixer, then record the output clean.

For now, pocket recorders remain the best option, though I do have one inexpensive ($180) lavalier microphone setup that I use on the pastor/priest when possible.

the mics I use are ATR3350's which have a battery pack inline so that probably wont be too good for this scenario. The other one I have for better quality sound (I use it on the groom for ceremony) is the Rode Lavalier which has no battery pack but at £150 its quite expensive to use with an mp3 recorder.. any recommendations on a decent low cost mic to use with the Olympus in this situation?

Peter Rush recently recommended these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004EA0D0O/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

A lot of people use lavs from Giant Squid. Very good value, not very pretty, they do the job:

Miniature Microphone Specialists Stereo - Mono - Cardioid - Omnidrectional Giant Squid Audio Lab (http://www.giantsquidaudiolab.com/)

Not sure but aren't the Rode lavs wired in such a way that they may not be compatible? I may be thinking of one particular lav, maybe the iphone one.

Pete

thanks guys I'll read up on those and buy a load of one type. They all look pretty ugly compared to my ATR3350's but that might be because all the pics have the wind screens on!

My Rode Lavalier does work with my H1 no problem Peter.

One concern is having to rely on the Zoom H1's plugin power. I dont know if this will make the H1's any less reliable (reliability has always been an issue for me until I was advised to not use recharables but now I only use alkaline batteries they have been 100% reliable.. so far..) and also how it will affect the battery life as my current mics have their own in line power. On a single AA I can now get 2hrs recording without having to get twitchy (in my tests at home they actually last 3 or 4 hours sometimes) but this will obviously be reduced by using the plugin power.I suppose I could test using the Rode thinking about it.. but I currently use that for ceremonies anyway (as it seems to pick up a wider area which is more handy for capturing the bride as well) and I know it can go 1hr plus with no battery failure, they're usually on full or half when I remove them.

Just had a look through all of those mics, the Pronomic LA-30 seems great value and potentially would have been a MUCH cheaper alternative to my Rode Lavalier. I paid more for the screw on XLR connection for use with my H4N than the mic itself costs with 4 different connectors! However.. to buy 5 of them and because I'll certainly never need the additional connectors unless I decide to sell my Rode, they're a bit pricy. That leaves the 503 which a couple of you guys recommend but I can't find a photo of it even on google images without the wind screen thing. It is removable, right? The silver clip looks a bit ugly but it's a great price. Most important thing for me after sound quality is quality of the cable, I think I'd like quite a thick cable to make sure it doesn't end up breaking inside with my regular winding and unwinding into a neat ball for storage.

David you are quite safe to use rechargeables :- ) I have used nothing but for years. Some equipment has a menu setting for the type of battery e.g. the Zoom H4n.

Just make sure you get a good genuine brand. My favs now are the high capacity Eneloops:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00AFOMQW6/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They retain their full charge for ages so you don't have to constantly top up unused cells. I use chargers that can analyse and recondition cells as well. The Maha C9000. I have 4 of those.

Not sure if plugin power used on an H1 would lead to excessive drain as I seldom use anything other than the H1's onboard mics - the pick up pattern being a slightly narrower more appropriate one than a typical omni lav. Its phantom power than can be a hog on some devices. If I'm using a lav its usually with a G3 transmitter, if I'm using an H1 its usually hidden close to the couple.

Pete

The reliability issue isn't down to the power running out but the H1 locking up. I had maybe 5 lock ups in 3 years and lost the file each time, an absolute nightmare. Since switching to Alkaline on Zoom's recommendation I haven't had a lock up. Expensive, but the only way I'll use them now for critical audio.

Gosh, I have 4 x H1's and have never experienced a "lockup". I seem to recall that if the power runs out whilst recording then that file may be lost. A new file is created every 2gb but since 48/16 WAV files are relatively small 2gb would mean losing an entire recording I guess. Zoom were probably alluding to reliability issues with cheap rechargeables or over-use of rechargeables without reconditioning the cells - they don't last forever.

I also use rechargeables for numerous flashguns, gun battery packs, H4n, shotgun mic, wireless triggers, 3 x G3 radio kits, etc with no issues.

Pete

I'd be careful Pete, Zoom themselves advised I use alkaline batteries. I thought it was silly when they said it but I suppose they know their products more than me and so far it's been ok..

It's a common problem - most rechargeable have lower terminal voltage, but the worst feature is that with them, the terminal voltage dies off very quickly, which often gives misleading time left on displays, and the sudden death at the end means that the usual shutdown procedures might not have a chance to complete before they go dead. Radio mics do the same thing - turn them on, the display tells you there is plenty of charge, yet suddenly, they just go. All the different rechargeables perform differently - only proper testing will tell you how they behave when nearly dead in a particular device. Personally, I use alkalinise, and just treat them as consumables.

the terminal voltage dies off very quickly, which often gives misleading time left on displays, and the sudden death

Once they get near the single bar of three I swap them out, but with all my equipment except heavy duty flashguns and H4n on phantom power they seem to go on forever. I do regularly recondition them as well.

Pete

OK so I've bought a mic for testing now trying to decide on a small recorder. Is the olympus 733 the same as the 731 except colour? Also does anyone know if the case that comes with these has a clip on it? Bit surprised to see no clip on the actual unit. Any other recommendations welcome.. £70 max!

Ah just read the 733 is the only one that has low cut filter and noise reduction so I'll go with that. Just need to find a decent clip case for attaching to registrars folder now as suspect the one provided doesn't have a clip..

My 733 case does not have a clip on it, plus the case is slippery so the unit would not stay inside it securely when tilted. You might get away with taping it to the folder using no-residue gaffer tape that is secure but also just peels off. Looking at mine you could gaffer tape it to the underneath outside of the folder back cover very securely and it would not be overly visible. I guess a mobile phone case with a strong belt clip would work but phone cases tend to be too large now; a case for a small ipod might do the trick. You can stop gear sliding out by putting a small piece of velcro on the inside of the case and the outside of the recorder - I do that with my shotgun foamy and windjammer.

Pete