But is there no way I can make my audio recording sound a little better than sounding like it's from a tin can?

Start by telling us how you are recording your audio (equipment used, techniques used, etc.). I think you are about to go down the rabbit hole...

A tin can?

Let me guess. You're recording indoors from a mic on the camera. The solution? A super or hyper cardioid mic that is close to the talent. Or an omni lavalier. The lavalier works best for wide shots. A super/hyper cardioid will sound best (have the least echo) for tight shots that allow you to get the mic close but out of the frame.

Jon just opened the rabbit hole...and then there's mixers, and boom poles, and shotgun mics...

Well, let's not fall completely down the rabbit hole.

I think the first huge step in improvement is to get the mic (any mic) close to the source of the sound. Even if it isn't the best mic for the job it will be SO MUCH BETTER than a mic on the camera that I think you'll be delighted.

At least at first. Then you'll start to realize that there are a lot of different kinds of mic, and while there is no one right mic, there are lots of wrong mic types. Then you really will fall down the rabbit hole as you start to listen ever more critically, buy more types of more expensive mic's. etc etc etc.

First, I love the quick responses!

Second..I don't want to go down the rabbit hole. I used the Sony FX1 cam and the Sony ECM674 Professional Microphone. Yes, recorded in my home office. Yes, in the future I need a sound studio and better equipment BUT is there anything I can do NOW in Final Cut or Sound Track Pro to make the sound quality better?

UUUghrrr!

Was the mic on the camera at the time, rather than near the talent?

Unfortunately, removing echo can rarely be done well. One (time consuming) way to fix it is to re-record the audio using ADR.

Dubbing (filmmaking) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbing_%28filmmaking%29#Automated_dialogue_replacement_.2F_post-sync)

If you go the ADR route, you can hang blankets to help deaden reflections. Moving the bookshelves a few inches from the walls and moving the books near the front of the shelf ad different intervals helps diffuse the sound and trap stray bass. An even simpler trick is to get a large cardboard box and line it with acoustic foam. Record the dialog with the mic near the mouth of the box.

The most important thing is to get the mic - any mic from a $30 Radio Shack model to a $1,500 Schoeps - close to the talent.

Here's how effective ADR can be when done with a tool like VocALign...
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/495283-adr-heres-quick-vocalign-demo-i-just-did.html

Repeat slowly and often

"Mic close to talent"..."Mic close to talent"..."Mic close to talent"...

It's sort of hypnotic if you say it enough times, and then you start to believe it.

As Jon says it can be ANY mic for starters.

It's almost a fundamental law of sound. Mic position = Camera position = BAD. Mic closer to talent = GOOD. Getting from BAD to GOOD costs almost nothing. Getting from GOOD to BETTER can be pricey. Getting from BETTER to GREAT can be mind-blowingly expensive.

"Mic close to talent"..."Mic close to talent"..."Mic close to talent"..."Mic close to talent"..."Mic close to talent"..."Mic close to talent"..."Mic close to talent"..."Mic close to talent"..."Mic close to talent"...

I used the Sony FX1 cam and the Sony ECM674 Professional Microphone. Yes, recorded in my home office. Yes, in the future I need a sound studio and better equipment BUT is there anything I can do NOW in Final Cut or Sound Track Pro to make the sound quality better?

I'm confused.

First, I'm not at all certain what you mean by "tin can." I won't know what problems you have unless you post a clip of the recording.

Second, it's now unclear whether you want to use FC or STP to somehow improve the existing track, or whether you are asking or advice about making your future recordings better.

GREG! YES, I am asking if there is ANY solution for my existing track in FC or STP. The footage is already recorded (this is a VO over footage) so, I had the talent "close to mic" "close to mic" " as close to mic with out them cracking their teeth on it.

Re-recording using blankets et al would help but my budget to pay the talent again is limited...but I have my time and was hoping I could do something with it...Looks like I can't or it will still not be that great :'(

GREG! YES, I am asking if there is ANY solution for my existing track in FC or STP.(

That hasn't been clear up until now... at least not to me.

Having clarified the question, I have to say that I can't make any specific suggestions unless I hear the track. Imaging sending an EMail to your doctor saying, "I feel pretty sick today, what should I do to feel better?"

You need to post a sample of the track.

One trick is to play some background music or even some nice sounding background sounds like some smooth, soft rumble. It might help cover up the echo a bit.

Removing echo is like trying to clean up the images that came off of the flawed Hubble telescope. It can be done with a ton of work, but it will never be quite right. Maybe there's a plugin available out there that can do the trick, but it would be costly.

One thing that you can do is to apply an expander. That makes quiet things quieter and loud things louder. It can make the tails fade out faster than normal. You can also use a "gate" which is kind of an extreme expander that shuts off quiet sounds. You can try it manually by fading the volume quickly after each pause in speech. Warning: it won't sound natural, unless you blend in some silent room tone.

You can also play with EQ. Create a narrow spike. Move it around the frequency range with the sound playing until it matches the tone of the echo. Then change the spike into a cut. You can try making the range a bit wider. Do this at a number of frequencies to tame any resonance in the echo.

The thing is that you can spend a lot of time doing stuff like this, but it's possible that the sound will be worse than when you started.

BTW, if you are playing back the sound in the same room where it was recorded, it will sound worse than it really is. You would be hearing the same room echo twice.

Jon (et al),

Do we really know that the recording has problems with echo (or excessive reverb)?

Indeed, you may have hit it on the head. But the description "tin can" doesn't really clarify anything for me. I hope the OP will post a sample audio clip so we can be really certain what's wrong.

BTW, if you are playing back the sound in the same room where it was recorded, it will sound worse than it really is. You would be hearing the same room echo twice.
If echo actually is the problem, that's a very good observation... that wouldn't have occured to me.

True, "tin can" could also mean that it sounds too thin, with little bass. Or it could mean that it's distorted and overdriven.

Kat, if you can post a few seconds of audio as an example, we might be able to provide more help.

She mentioned that her microphone was very close to the talent, so I don't think echo is the issue here. My guess is that her camera mic also recorded sound, and what she's hearing are two audio tracks playing together, but out of phase with each other...hence the tin can effect.

Kat, if you see two audio tracks on your timeline, try muting them one at a time and see if that helps.

uploading...

I am having trying to upload a clip but I am having a difficult time...It says wait while we upload, then I just had to log back in....

No, do not have two different audio tracks. I set the cam to use external mic.

The file size is 32.2MB which is under the required size for mov files...rrrrrrrrrr. Someone asked me if I drank, because if I didn't I might start trying to do this business!


Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 180355072 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 33430193 bytes) in /export/sites/dvinfo.net/docs/forum/includes/class_core.php on line 748

YouTube - Sample VO 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP6rk_FNnEM)

please take a look and listen to this link....

You said your mic was very close to his mouth for the VO, but it sure sounds like the internal on-camera microphone to me. It sounds like it's a few feet away from the talent.

How did you connect the 674 to your FX-1? The FX-1 doesn't have an XLR input. Did you use an adaptor? If so, did you plug into the FX-1's yellow audio/video connector? Or the plug in power mic/line connector right below it?

I would agree. That doesn't sound close at all.

With a close mic, you can still get room reverb, but it sounds different. You hear the initial voice clean with a delay before the 'verb. When the mic is distant, there is virtually no delay between the initial sound and the reverb.

For future reference, make sure to do a full equipment test before recording with new equipment. (I just did that yesterday for a shoot with some new gear that I'll be doing Friday, so it's fresh in my mind. I figured out which mics I'll use, approximate levels, and distance. I transferred the files to my editing system to check the whole path.) Also, make sure to monitor with headphones and listen carefully for good quality. This is tougher, since it takes experience to recognize problems.

Things to listen for are...
1) That the right mic is recording. Tap ALL of your mics to isolate them.
2) That the sound is clear, undistorted, and not clipping. (If so, turn down the gain.)
3) That there are no outside sounds, like refrigerators, heating, A/C, toilets, dogs, planes...
4) That there are no problems with plosives. "Peter picked a peck of pickles..." (If so, redirect the mic away from directly in front of the mouth and/or use a pop shield.)
5) That there are no sibilance problems. "She sells sea shells by the sea shore." (If so, consider re-positioning, though this can be solved in post.)
6) That there are no noises from the talent, such as clothes rustling or a squeaky chair.
7) That the voice is good. "Would you like some water? A lozenge?"
8) That the echo is acceptable. (If not, get the mic closer. Set up blankets, pillows, bookshelves, etc.)

The last point might be the hardest! Then again, tapping the mics might have identified the problem.

Have to second (or third) the "Doesn't sound close" comments. It also it sounds to me like the voice is unnaturally thin - I think if the mic were sufficiently close there would be a lot more "body" to the voice.

Especially as a VO to an outdoor scene there needs to be almost no reverb or the visual image of outdoors conflicts with the audio image of indoors (but too far from the mic.)

That mic is NOT close. I am not hearing generalized reverb from a big room. I'm hearing a very distinct primary reflection from a hard surface. Was it recorded in a tiled bathroom?

Of course it would be a lot easier to comment on this is you would upload a file of the voice track. If you want us to analize your MIX then upload a mixed file like this. If you want us to help with a voice track, upload the voice track.

But no question... the mic is not at all close. The voice sounds thin because, I think, the speaker has a thin voice. But again, if you got a mic adequately close... especially a cardioid mic... the voice would fill out. Especially true with a cardioid, because the proximity effect boosts low frequencies.

Upload the voice track only (a .wav or .wma file) and not a video file with final audio mix, and perhaps we can offer some suggestions that will help to salvage this existing track.

NOTE: Be sure to adhere to the file size limitations shown on this website's uploads page, or your file will bounce.

Yes - if a shotgun were within a foot or two there would be some serious bass boost/Voice of God effect - even if the voice really were thin it would sound pretty full. So it can't be close enough to bite, (unless you have a VERY SERIOUS dental problem!) Leaving aside the normal issues with a shotgun indoors what we have is apparent contradiction

Kat says that the 674 was very close.

In which case this recording couldn't made with the 674

ie some connection error must have caused the voice to have been recorded with the on camera mic instead

At least that's my 2 cents.