View Full Version : Sony NEX-FS700 - It's real


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Bernd Eller
April 2nd, 2012, 01:37 AM
As expected, the rumors turned out to be true, and the "4K ready" Sony NEX-FS700 is here. Seems they addressed all of the shortcomings of the FS100, added internal ND filters, there is 10x slow-mo in FullHD (and up to 40x with reduced resolution), and even a zoom rocker (!) for future e-mount servozoom lenses on top of the grip.
Sony : NEX-FS700E (NEXFS700E) : Features : Other (http://www.pro.sony.eu/biz/lang/en/eu/product/nxcamcorders/nex-fs700e/features)

Chris Hurd
April 2nd, 2012, 09:25 AM
Finally, a legitimate Sony site that verifies the FS700. Thank you for posting this!

For anyone else wondering why their FS700 post didn't make it in the DVi
Industry News forum, Bernd has demonstrated the correct way to do it...
with a link to a legitimate Sony source, and not some other third-party site.

We will have a dedicated forum for the FS700 shortly.

Brett Sherman
April 2nd, 2012, 09:25 AM
Wow. I thought my next camera was going to be a Canon. Rethinking that now. I think it's looking more and more like Canon missed the mark with the C300. Unless Canon does something remarkable it looks like this might be my next camera.

Nigel Barker
April 2nd, 2012, 10:02 AM
No word on the recording CODEC or media so presumably it's the same AVCHD & single SD card as the FS100 otherwise they would be singing about these improvements too.

Junior Chan
April 2nd, 2012, 10:14 AM
No word on the recording CODEC or media so presumably it's the same AVCHD & single SD card as the FS100 otherwise they would be singing about these improvements too.

Codec -> same as FS100 AVCHD on SD cards. Its the under the same NEX family.

We just had our Sony Conference call for this product. You should see an official release shortly from Sony later today with all the specs.

Chris Medico
April 2nd, 2012, 10:23 AM
I'm excited to see what the SDI output will be (8bit vs 10bit) and if there will be anything approaching S-Log as in the F3.

This would make an awesome B camera for the F3 with room to be a great B camera for what ever the 4k version of the F3 ends up being. I'm sure Sony will not leave such a big hole between the FS700 and the F65.

Bill Koehler
April 2nd, 2012, 11:05 AM
Sony's USA website appears to be buried, presumably with activity, so I ended up at their Facebook page.
They have a product announcement there as well, and if you scroll down to the bottom they say under $10K.

Sony Expands NXCAM Line With New Full-HD Super Slow Motion Camcorder | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/notes/sony-pro-usa/sony-expands-nxcam-line-with-new-full-hd-super-slow-motion-camcorder/381173908569966)

Chris Hurd
April 2nd, 2012, 11:57 AM
Thanks, Bill -- that's published now at Sony Expands NXCAM Line With NEX-FS700U at DVInfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/sony-expands-nxcam-line-with-nex-fs700u.html)

Simon Wood
April 2nd, 2012, 12:25 PM
I'm excited to see what the SDI output will be (8bit vs 10bit) and if there will be anything approaching S-Log as in the F3.



SDI Out is 8 Bit.

They have to have some separation between the F line and FS line - looks like 8 Bit is the line.

Slick camera.

Dylan Couper
April 2nd, 2012, 12:34 PM
Finally someone has made the high speed sub 10k camera that I have been demanding for the past couple years... Good on you Sony (though it would be JVC!)

Nate Weaver
April 2nd, 2012, 12:50 PM
SDI Out is 8 Bit.



Do you have a source for this? I understand it makes sense given history, but I've been scouring looking for insight on this bit (no pun intended). [edit: Nevermind, saw post by Ned Soltz and his Sony briefing]

Also, a 4K RAW output over 3G implies a greater bit depth than 8...usually it's 12 or 14 bits to the cameras internal DSP. So I think the door is open to get greater than 8 bits out the SDI, even if it's not a 1080p signal? My bet would be 8 bit 1080p output over SDI, and then higher depths with higher resolutions to the proprietary Sony 4K recorder.

Other thoughts:

-Man, I hope they have a cheaper recorder than the SR-R3 to do the 4K RAW. An SR-R3 is on a different planet, price wise. Maybe something cheaper with less processing to just record the stream verbatim, like a Blackmagic Shuttle. I guess uncompressed 4K would be off the chart bit-rate wise though...eat through SSDs like nothing we've ever seen, unless you just bought an F65. Nevermind, it's going to have to be compressed. Question is, what codec?

-S-Log is a omission I would like, but hopefully it doesn't matter if the 4K stream is truly "RAW", as they say?

-Existence of this camera dang near guarantees a counterpart line addition for the F3, leveraging the same 4K recorder solution. Hopefully announced Sunday night before NAB?

Chris Hurd
April 2nd, 2012, 01:23 PM
Thread moved to our new FS700 forum.

Jean-Philippe Archibald
April 2nd, 2012, 01:29 PM
-S-Log is a omission I would like, but hopefully it doesn't matter if the 4K stream is truly "RAW", as they say?


Apparently there is 4 new cinegamma curves, one of which is very close to S-Log.

Nate Weaver
April 2nd, 2012, 01:48 PM
Apparently there is 4 new cinegamma curves, one of which is very close to S-Log.

I read from Abel that the 4 CG curves are pulled from the F3, and as an F3 owner, I can tell you CG is no substitute for real benefits of S-Log, as Sony has already done it. Are you talking about the guy on another board who said something like one of the picture profiles came close to his S-Log approximation?

The true S-Log update on the F3 manages to pull/enable another ~2 stops of latitude from the sensor, where picture profiles don't do that. On top of that, the FS100 doesn't even have the latitude of the F3/Cinegamma combo, so...add in a new sensor and I suppose it's all speculation until we see it anyway.

Steve Kalle
April 2nd, 2012, 04:06 PM
Are we all reading different sources because the info I got from Abel Cine clearly stated that the 3G-SDI output is 4k 12-bit RAW for recording to an upcoming 4k recorder. The email also said, "The FS700 has a newly designed 11.6M sensor, 8.3M which are used in the video mode."

Murray Christian
April 2nd, 2012, 06:30 PM
Good grief. Reading those specs and that price is like

http://nikkigsblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/hyperventilating2.jpg

Though someone's sure to say "It's still box with a couple of toilet rolls sticking out"

Nate Weaver
April 2nd, 2012, 08:15 PM
Yes, I often drink out of paper bags when going to NAB, too.

James Ross-Smith
April 2nd, 2012, 08:47 PM
This camera looks insane. I'm hoping this cam causes the second-hand market to flood with FS-100's :P

Emmanuel Plakiotis
April 3rd, 2012, 12:18 AM
A camera that outguns C300 and at a price point where C300 should have been!
There is a user who claims he manage to record 200 fps slow mo at an atomos samurai:

Sony NEX FS700 on Location - Become a Film Maker Without Quitting Your Job! (http://www.denlennie.com/2012/04/sony-nex-fs700-on-location.html)

Dave Allen
April 3rd, 2012, 12:40 AM
What about auto-focus, and still no motorized servo zoom? :(

Sanjin Svajger
April 3rd, 2012, 02:15 AM
This is going to change the market quite a bit. Everybody is going to be able to make films for the big screen now (in acceptable quality that is...). The industry is becoming more and more cut-throat.

Anyway, when comparing the FS700 to the FS100 and if we exclude 4K for what are we paying 3K€ to 4K€ more?

For HD work the FS100 has a better chip doesn't it? It's designed for HD, right? So when looking from the HD perspective what does the FS700 got that the FS100 hasn't got? S-LOG?, HD-SDI, NDs, 50/60 switch able, super slow-mo, anything else?

I wonder what Panasonic will do next:)

Monday Isa
April 3rd, 2012, 04:00 AM
What about auto-focus, and still no motorized servo zoom? :(
There is a zoom rocker on the handle though.

Thomas Wong
April 3rd, 2012, 04:02 AM
with motorized zoom... interesting

Murray Christian
April 3rd, 2012, 04:19 AM
Yes, I often drink out of paper bags when going to NAB, too.
Really? With surely such a large contingent of crusty old chain smoking technical director types I would have thought they hand out hip flasks at the door.

(yeah, the picture doesn't work that well without animation).

Glen Vandermolen
April 3rd, 2012, 04:37 AM
with motorized zoom... interesting

Yeah, Sony will make some zooms with a servo zoom motor. E-mounts, I would guess. Maybe some A-mounts?

Steve Siegel
April 3rd, 2012, 08:06 AM
Just a little confused by Sony's description of "magnification'. They say:

"Selectable magnification and positioning of expanded focus. Expanded focus improvement allowing 4x and 8x magnification and a moveable area of expansion for easy focusing with shallow depth of field."

Do they mean some mechanism to increase the crop factor in the Exmor chip (really important for wildlife), or just a magnifcation in the viewfinder to help focus (not so critical)?

Chris Medico
April 3rd, 2012, 08:28 AM
That feature as its being described in this context is a focus aid only.

Menno Mennes
April 3rd, 2012, 09:35 AM
In Belgium -Europe:

NEX FS 700 in EURO's € 6.995,-- excl. VAT !!!

Sony NEX-FS700EK - Creative Ventures BVBA (http://www.creativeventures.be/sony-nex-fs700ek.html)

Cheers!

David Chilson
April 3rd, 2012, 09:44 AM
Do they mean some mechanism to increase the crop factor in the Exmor chip (really important for wildlife), or just a magnifcation in the viewfinder to help focus (not so critical)?

Please god, don't let it have a 3X crop like the T3i/60D because if it it does I might HAVE to buy it. In over twenty years I have purchased only Canon "prosumer" cameras but with the posted specs and that feature it would make me jump. Please don't have it, please don't have it.....

Don Parrish
April 3rd, 2012, 12:20 PM
In case anyone is interested,

Sony NEX-FS700U Super 35 Camcorder (Body Only) NEX-FS700 B&H


The B & H site says 8 bit 3G HD-SDI

BNC Connector 3G/-HD-SDI / 4:2:2 / 8-bit (59.94p, or 50p) / 29.97p or PsF, 23.98p or PsF)
HDMI Output HDMI 4:2:2 8-bit (59.97p & 50p, 29.97p, 25p, 23.98p)


500 (0 dB) to ISO 16,000 (30 dB) sensitivity
Cranks from 1 to 960 fps for fast motion to super-slow motion
Four ND filter levels: clear, 2, 4 & 6 stops
Four HyperGamma settings (same as F3)
WorldCam 50/60Hz systems
Exmor Super 35mm sensor 11.6-megapixles
Effective pixels (photo): approx. 8,400,000 pixels (16:9) or approx. 7,100,000 pixels (4:3)
Low aliasing (grossly over sampled HD)
Runs cool, no grain and no fan noise
Large buttons and switches with orange backgrounds for easy auto/manual distinction
Arri Rossette with micro-adjusting (for connecting grips, etc.)
Face detection
Auto/manual iris and focus with Sony lenses (lenses sold separately)
Features dual XLR inputs, a DC input, an FMU port for flash memory unit, SD / MemoryStick card slot, BNC connector and HDMI output
Removable grip features four easy-to-use buttons including Start/Stop, Photo, 4x/8x expandable focus and push-button auto iris
Display offers video/film selections for distance (meters/feet), sensitivity (dB gain/ ISO) and shutter (speed/angle)
BNC connector offers 3G/HD-SDI and a planned future firmware upgrade will enable 4K data-stream output
Camera supports 1920 x 1080/60p full HD recording and still image capture

Steve Kalle
April 3rd, 2012, 12:29 PM
Hmmmm.... It is odd that Abel Cine sent out an email stating 12bit Raw from the 3G-SDI for an upcoming recorder. Maybe the increase in bits comes from the 4k upgrade that people will need to purchase kind of like the S-Log upgrade which enhances the quality of the camera.

Brett Sherman
April 3rd, 2012, 12:59 PM
I don't know whether to be excited about this camera or filled with dread about all the unnecessary slow-mo shots we'll be subjected to once it is released.

Garrett Low
April 3rd, 2012, 12:59 PM
Hmmmm.... It is odd that Abel Cine sent out an email stating 12bit Raw from the 3G-SDI for an upcoming recorder. Maybe the increase in bits comes from the 4k upgrade that people will need to purchase kind of like the S-Log upgrade which enhances the quality of the camera.

The 12 Bit Raw may be enabled with the "future firmware upgrade". All I know is that my beloved EX3 may be headed for a replacement in June.

-Garrett

Chris Medico
April 3rd, 2012, 01:01 PM
Hmmmm.... It is odd that Abel Cine sent out an email stating 12bit Raw from the 3G-SDI for an upcoming recorder. Maybe the increase in bits comes from the 4k upgrade that people will need to purchase kind of like the S-Log upgrade which enhances the quality of the camera.

Thats right. At 1080p in video mode it will be 8bit but when the RAW mode is enabled in the future it will be 12bit.

What will be interesting is if there will be a 2k RAW mode available at 12bit depth.

Don Parrish
April 3rd, 2012, 01:04 PM
The 12 Bit Raw may be enabled with the "future firmware upgrade". All I know is that my beloved EX3 may be headed for a replacement in June.

-Garrett


DON's rest home for tired EX3's. Treat your beloved camera to a much deserved rest home in sunny Central Florida !!

Matt Davis
April 3rd, 2012, 01:12 PM
the 4 CG curves are pulled from the F3, and as an F3 owner, I can tell you CG is no substitute for real benefits of S-Log

Okay, still smarting from having ripped the NDA Gaffer Tape from my gob, but there's lots of funny info whizzing around. Hey, I'm just an ICE. :-)

FS100 highlight handling was 'not as bad' as the AF101, but was sure as heck not as good as EX1 with CineGamma ... AND the Canons. It REALLY needed fixing. Now it is with the FS700. Hooray. Really. CineGamma highlight handling is absolutely so crucial in my line of work I have to sell my FS100 for it.

It's as if the F3 'basic' config was stripped of a few functions and made into an F3 Junior - aka FS700 - and the F3 Proper inherits all the good stuff that makes it work in the F65/F35/Alexa world.

Still sad we don't see some really important things for the FS100/700 - shot duration, names for PPs, and so on, but really glad we get Touch Focus, NDs and CineGamma 4 (huggable highlights rather than mopping up after a WFM knife fight).

My videos that touch on this subject are up here:

http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/content/id/1237485108425/section/videography-nxcamavchdguides

or you may get more info here:

http://vimeo.com/mattdavis/review/30254292/bc4573bd89

Murray Christian
April 3rd, 2012, 02:15 PM
I don't know whether to be excited about this camera or filled with dread about all the unnecessary slow-mo shots we'll be subjected to once it is released.

There is surely no such thing! Slow motion is the new shallow focus.

The Greatest Scene in Televisual History - YouTube

(the codec catches up eventually. I'm going to get done for off topic spam. It's a funny show though. Filled with gags only production types would get)

Mark Kenfield
April 4th, 2012, 12:08 AM
There is surely no such thing! Slow motion is the new shallow focus.


But just imagine, with the FS700 we can have shallow focus IN slow motion!










...I can feel my cerebral cortex starting to bleed already.

Glen Vandermolen
April 4th, 2012, 04:02 AM
But just imagine, with the FS700 we can have shallow focus IN slow motion!


And in 4K!

Glen Vandermolen
April 4th, 2012, 06:11 AM
Love the top view. It shows the zoom control.

Emmanuel Plakiotis
April 4th, 2012, 06:20 AM
Compared to FS100 for over double the price you get:
A new sensor
ND
better handle
burst of extreme slow motion
cinegamma
The option to pay even more and have 4K RAW output.
Apart from the sensor which we don't know how much better is, the upgrade is quite expensive. But everyone thinks is a very good deal because C300 is so much more expensive while lagging in the feature department. I guess Sony is reading the forums and priced the new camera at the price point most of us thought as reasonable for C300.

I wonder, if the consensus for the C300, was around $6-7K, would the new camera had an even lower entry price? :-)

R Geoff Baker
April 4th, 2012, 06:39 AM
The zoom controls hint at the most important thing, IMHO -- more lenses on the way. Because so far, there just aren't enough 'full capability' lenses to justify this system. Sure it's nice to use legacy glass, and for some work that's just fine ... But the actual range of lenses that offer stabilization, for instance, or silent autofocus, or even smooth aperture stepping is just too small.

I for one -- and your mileage may vary -- have almost never zoomed while shooting. So a zoom control is not paramount -- but the presence suggests that Sony will either push out more lenses and try to catch Canon and even Nikon in terms of system depth, or it won't be much of a 'system' at all.

I'm hoping for a long list of new lenses ...

Cheers,
GB

Bill Bruner
April 4th, 2012, 06:47 AM
..Love the top view...

I agree, Glen - this is the camera's 'good side' ;-)

So refreshing - a large sensor interchangeable lens camcorder with a real power zoom rocker (instead of the Panny PZs' little zoom control on the lens).

Look forward to seeing some test video (and stills) from this camera.

Cheers,

Bill

Jerry Porter
April 4th, 2012, 07:20 AM
The 12 Bit Raw may be enabled with the "future firmware upgrade". All I know is that my beloved EX3 may be headed for a replacement in June.

-Garrett

Looking lovingly at my EX3 right now, but if this camera is what it appears to be, there will be anther EX3 ready for "Don's EX3 Rest Home"

Frank Glencairn
April 4th, 2012, 04:35 PM
Official SONY FS700 launch film coming tomorrow.

Curtis Campsall
April 4th, 2012, 05:36 PM
Shallow focus in slow motion... It will be like, wait for it, wait for it, sharp focus, ah nuts soft again.

As an aside, there is still a supposedly significant firmware upgrade for the fs100 coming at the end of NAB. Many of the software based features, touch to focus, cinegamma, etc, could still be coming to the fs100, to allow it to be a competent b-cam for the 700.

Dean Harrington
April 5th, 2012, 01:09 AM
Looking lovingly at my EX3 right now, but if this camera is what it appears to be, there will be anther EX3 ready for "Don's EX3 Rest Home"

ditto .. ditto ... and more ditto

Walter Brokx
April 5th, 2012, 12:35 PM
........Slow motion is the new shallow focus.
................

I'm already planning for a slowmo-project now :-p

But I don't think the FS-700 will be sold in numbers that can compare with number of video-DSLR's and large sensor camcorders. So slowmotion at real high speeds won't be as common as shallow depht of field.

I'd go for slow motion with shallow DoF on a Cinevate Atlas track :-p

Mark OConnell
April 6th, 2012, 01:43 PM
FS700 480 FPS Test on Vimeo

Ben Fullerton
April 8th, 2012, 07:55 PM
Shallow focus in slow motion... It will be like, wait for it, wait for it, sharp focus, ah nuts soft again.

As an aside, there is still a supposedly significant firmware upgrade for the fs100 coming at the end of NAB. Many of the software based features, touch to focus, cinegamma, etc, could still be coming to the fs100, to allow it to be a competent b-cam for the 700.

Yes, the rampant abuse of shallow DOf is well documented, and even before the announcement of the fs700, I've been feeling the same thing coming on with slo-mo. Phantoms are getting popular enough, and the epics shooting at 300fps, I'm starting to see it everywhere, at least in the circles I travel in. Most of what I do and /or watch is in the adventure sports world; and the last year or so, I've just been seen more and more and more and more super slow motion stuff, to the point where I'm like, "I love this stuff, but even I'm getting sick of it."

I fear this will only make it worse. But maybe as more and more "cool" techniques become available, they will all somehow filter back into appropriate proportions.