I was really feeling the 4k, but then I noticed no slo motion :(. The pocket looks amazing, if it had still capabilities I'd sell my GH3.

Wow the pocket cam is unreal, just made the GH2 obsolete for video.
But Im trying to save up for a FS100damnit.

just made the GH2 obsolete for video

I rather wait and see what it can do :) I had the bmc on my mind beginning this year because I loved the images that some users where able to pull out of this camera but got a nex-ea50 instead because I knew it would fit my kind of work (weddings, events,run and gun and shooting alone) much better.
But I must say I"m very tempted by that pocket cam as well, if it comes anywhere near it's bigger 2,5k brother in terms of the imagequality I will buy it as well. But I rather wait a few months to see the first user videos appear, what downsides it might have and until it becomes available at the stores. I don't like buying a camera based on specs alone.

I rather wait a few months to see the first user videos appear, what downsides it might have and until it becomes available at the stores. I don't like buying a camera based on specs alone.
right on, it only takes a push of a button to buy anything :)
and even though i am positive that image quality will be more than just acceptable and i am planning to get both BM cameras, but i need to see the footage, and even better shoot my own before i do that, was really close to preorder BMCC last year, glad i didin't do that.

My understanding is that this pocket cam won’t be available until July. I went ahead and pushed the button (no money has changed hands as yet) knowing full well that there is lots of time between now and then to view footage.

I reckon this thing will sell like hot cakes and I thought get in the queue, now. And anyway, it’s only a measly $1000.

My understanding is that this pocket cam won’t be available until July
That remains to be seen, I figure they will get swamped with orders and we can only hope they don't run into the same delivery issues as with the BMC.

I agree Noa, July might be optimistic based on past performance. All the more reason to get your order in now, I reckon, so I did.

10-bit, 422 prores in the PCC out of the box. Raw will come sometime down the road.

From what I understand raw would not be possible with the pocketcam but "only" prores?

Look at 07:07, he doesn't mention it will be in a future update.

NAB 2013: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera unveiled on Vimeo

One floor reps contradicted the official announcement, official website, and beta tester John Brawley.

either way, 4:2:2 and all that dynamic range, seems like it'll smack my gh2 around pretty good.

No audio metering in the pocket cam. Looks like one will need 2 pockets somewhat defeating the purpose. Not that that will stop me but I have to say, what are they thinking?

I'm thinking I'm going to use my Pocket Cam as a b-cam or MOS cam.
For $1,000 it has a heck of a lot of features. I just want that 13 stops of dynamic range and the pro res codec.

That may well be how I use it some of the time but if they're marketing it as a discreet cam for documentary which is how I'd like to use it primarily, it doesn't quite add up. That said, I just pre ordered although there's a part of me that thinks I shouldn't say that. Black Magic needs to think they'll lose orders if they don't address this.

So Black Magic, I'm placing some faith that you'll come through.

RE pocket cinema camera... I am not understanding exactly where this fits in; IQ great, 4k awesome, discrete form factor, but limited framerates, and again ergonomics and ease of use with accessories.

Like dslr use, would require more hardware, cabling, etc. On the other hand, I can think of a hundred moments I wish I had something like this for random 'life' moments. If I go for one, it will likely be a personal camera.

Nevermind.

I went by the Blackmajic booth today at NAB,I talked to Dan from Blackmajic about the 4K Production Camera

Blackmagic Production Camera 4K NAB 2013 - YouTube

Good job Brian on the interview (on the fly). However, I don't know how confident I am, that Dan is confident about July delivery. Keeping our fingers crossed that their production team has it right!

And if it is delayed a little while what's the big deal? It isn't like any of you are going to run out and buy the other alternative 4k camera for $4000.00.

I understand the frustration but if you already have a good camera then just shoot with it until the BM does come out and don't worry about it. It will get here when it gets here. I would also like to it released on time but it will not bother me if it doesn't and life will go on.

I agree, I'm not concerned about BM making the July delivery date. I pre-ordered the Pocket Cam. If it gets to me in July, that'd be great. If it doesn't get to me until months later, that's OK, too. I'll keep shooting with my current camera.

I'm very interested in the Pocket Cam as a B-Camera I can just throw in my camera bag if I need it. But what to do about lenses? How does the Super 16mm sensor size translate to 4/3? Is there a crop factor?

Yeah it will be harder to get super wide. Cannot recall the exact extra crop factor but there is one for sure. You will need to get as wide of lenses as possible. 12-35mm f2.8 should be a killer lens as well as the pancakes the 14mm f2.5 and the beauty 20mm f1.7. The 20mm will be a bit longer than usual but should still be usable for most walk around situations. There is also a very nice 7-14mm Panasonic lens. Not super bright but very wide even on the BMPC. The pancakes should even still allow it to slip in some pockets making it one heck of a functional portable camera. I sometimes shoot exclusively with my 20mm.

SLR Magic 12mm f1.6 will be another killer lens although full manual only. If you are cool with no auto control at all should be about the best option for wide and bright at the same time. Next up would be Nokton 17.5mm f0.95 which of course will be not as wide but much brighter.

Don't quote me on this but I believe the extra crop factor is 1.38 or somewhere around there. That means the 20mm on the BMPC will look like a 28mm on the GH3. Still usable but a bit tight. The 12mm however would give you roughly the look of 17mm on the GH3 which is still rather wide for normal shots or standard walk around shooting. That is wider than what I usually get using my 20mm on the GH2 so not bad at all.

But yeah it is not going to be cheap or easy to get wide shots with this camera. It can be done but it will not be easy. Considering some shooters already have issues with the crop factor of the GH3 this could be a major concern. I think shallow DOF shots will be harder to get as well. So yeah the camera isn't for everybody. One has to decide if the super high quality footage with little compression is worth losing some wide lens options and creative control. Outside of darn awesome color correction and FX work I still see a place for DSLR cameras which may prove to be better to actually shoot with and give the user more options of how they shoot.

With that said telephoto should be awesome with this camera. A 50mm f0.95 SLR Magic or Nokton will give you a look of 70mm on the GH3. Not that you get a lot of extra reach there but it is a bonus if you felt 50mm just wasn't tight enough on a GH3.

im wondering again about the choice of the EF mount, while it does make much more sense now, im wondering why they didn't opt for the EOS M mount. My guess is just simplicity to not have to retool, but for those with PL glass, the issue still remains, i imagine they might do an MFT mount for this as well, maybe not....

Most probable they will make a PL mount. On The 4K camera the MFT doesn't make sense.

My feeling is that there will be several 4k cameras before the end of the year, at considerably less than $4k but that they will be consumer handy cams, reflecting the arrival of ultra HD televisions, and that except for those on the leading edge of home entertainment, the demand will be low for 4k productions outside of large cinema. If so, the demand for the BMPC has to be weighed against the relevant HD alternatives like C100, FS100, GH3 etc. which themselves could be under market pressure to lower prices before the BM has arrived.

For the professional, he should take notice of the growth of cinema class lenses in dslr formats, and why it's not viable forever to rest on Canon L series glass as an example, as there will be pro requirements for lenses that can refocus without breathing.

So once again, as with 1080/p60 and 3D, the demand for 4k content outside of cinema productions will be home theater enthusiasts who could accept as little as being able to plug his handy cam into the tv and a modicum of cinema content. And if that doesn't translate into the expected wow factor, which by some accounts ultra HD already doesn't have with the smaller screen sizes or except by uncomfortably close viewing, the uptake could be very slow. Would we be having this discussion if 3D had taken off the way the mfrs had hoped? And with no optical format, not even agreement on a transmission standard or bitrate, I don't foresee a vast uptake for 4k for at least a year to merit plunging into it, with uncertain targets, unfinished workflows, and not too many asking for it. The future proofing that needs to happen is to have working workflows ready when called upon, experience with raw, 10-12 bit and uncompressed. All that can start now without rushing to buy the first 4k cameras, which will only improve and become more affordable down the line.

The advantage of 4K goes beyond display. It gives you the ability to stabilize the image in software without worrying about the loss of resolution on blow up. Another key advantage is the ability to either reframe a shot or add motion by moving 4K within a 1080 frame. Imagine for the "small office" shooter that couldn't possible work with two (or more) cameras at a location to be able to cut from close up to medium to wider shot from one camera.

im wondering again about the choice of the EF mount, while it does make much more sense now, im wondering why they didn't opt for the EOS M mount. My guess is just simplicity to not have to retool, but for those with PL glass, the issue still remains, i imagine they might do an MFT mount for this as well, maybe not....

M43 mount too small for a super 35mm sensor. Physically impossible without odd artifacts. That's why you will never see M43 lenses adapted to Canon or Nikon cameras. You can go the opposite direction because other lenses are designed for larger sensors which is why you get a crop factor. If the lens is already too small you get an image that is a tiny circle of image surrounded by black.

M43 works on the first BMCC because the sensor is actually a bit smaller than a M43 sensor so the M43 lenses easily cover the sensor. Same thing for the BMPC. The sensor is much smaller so the lenses work great albiet much longer than one would hope.

That's a good niche application (Craig) of 4k cams targeting HD end use. UltraHD flat panels are coming ready or not. I think we have to expect that once production is switched over, there is no going back. But distributors and to a lesser extent content creators, the adoption will lag the tv's themselves, so (I) expect a rehash of the marketing hype that upscaling makes all your current content look better as well. Some people still don't think Blu-ray looks all that much better, while others aren't aware that they are not viewing HD content on their hdtv's. So it's true yes, that I remain a bit pessimistic about the future demand for 4k, tempered by observations that people seem more motivated by mobility and convenience, and less rooted in home theater and large flatscreens that would amply demonstrate the superiority of 4k viewing.

Tom, I'd agree that I can't see any fast move to 4K. In fact HDTVs didn't really accelerate until SD TV disappeared. I really can't see much use of 4K in the home. Looking at current market conditions, first the price of 4K TVs must drop and that's going be be a couple of years. Then they really have to stop production of HDTV as a less expensive alternative.

Then you have to consider that, based on the metrics I've seen, people tend to replace their TVs every five years... and in a down economy I wouldn't be surprised if that's even longer. You'd be getting pretty close to the end of this decade for 4K to dominate.... if ever. There's really no big market motive. Consider this fun fact too, if you scour the post on DVInfo and other forums you still see people screaming about making DVDs! People still haven't left SD behind. As you note, most people have no idea that much of what they watch on their HDTVs is simply SD 16:9 blown up.

But as I note I can see real value in 4K for image manipulation. I did this in the early days of HD as well. There's other things going for the new BMPC4K as well though. Global Shutter is big. It's just not even approachable in this price range on a large sensor camera. The close to S35 sensor is going to help with shallow DOF in some tighter confines. The codec allows for some radical changes when you have less than ideal lighting or simply playing with creating a look.

While I had issues with the BMCC, the BMPC4K addresses them and the 4K is just some added gravy.

M43 mount too small for a super 35mm sensor. Physically impossible without odd artifacts. That's why you will never see M43 lenses adapted to Canon or Nikon cameras. You can go the opposite direction because other lenses are designed for larger sensors which is why you get a crop factor. If the lens is already too small you get an image that is a tiny circle of image surrounded by black.

M43 works on the first BMCC because the sensor is actually a bit smaller than a M43 sensor so the M43 lenses easily cover the sensor. Same thing for the BMPC. The sensor is much smaller so the lenses work great albiet much longer than one would hope.

Lens choice is going to be interesting. I haven't got any MFT lenses yet, and trying to pick some without even having a camera to test on will be interesting. Are there any other cameras out already with a similar size sensor to compare? Lenses which look great on GH2s will give a very different look on the Super 16 sensor.

Well said Craig, I totally agree. Also agree the global shutter is an important advancement at this price. You have pointed out good reasons for the BMPC.

I've been working with 4k for a couple of months and even when displayed on a 1080 display the difference vs HD is not small. The difference between raw vs jpeg/mov/mp4 etc is enormous so being able to shoot 4k raw for $4k is a no brainer. Throw in global shutter and the ability to use good lenses... I had to think about it for at least 10 seconds before placing my order.

Hi Duane,
The C300 and C100 also capture from a 4k sensor, and downsample to 1080HD. Viewing on an native 1080HD panel is still HD, no getting around Nyquist laws, 1080 LW/PH is the rule.

Not arguing value here, or global shutters and good lenses and raw workflows. But the 4k down sampled difference on an HD monitor would have to be small, or at least achievable with HD with similar raw workflows.

Hi Duane,
The C300 and C100 also capture from a 4k sensor, and downsample to 1080HD. Viewing on an native 1080HD panel is still HD, no getting around Nyquist laws, 1080 LW/PH is the rule.

Not arguing value here, or global shutters and good lenses and raw workflows. But the 4k down sampled difference on an HD monitor would have to be small, or at least achievable with HD with similar raw workflows.

From here on I'm doing 4k projects and down sampling only until 4k displays become more common. Then I'll be able to go back and render 4k masters when needed. Can't do that if the original footage is HD.

I don't know what to say about HD vs 4k viewed on a 1080 monitor other than I can see the difference from across the room. In fact I can't believe how archaic my ex1r footage looks which to me is now unusable.

Totally agree on the "4K pop". In fact it is nearly a 3D experience. I believe that has something to do with micro contrast, as I read an article concerning the Leica "pop", and the conclusion was that the Leica optics and sensors had better micro contrast than many others and that was the reason why pictures taken with an Leica had this special look.

To my eye this applies to 4K as well. So it is a combination of optics and sensor. I have tested the 4K JVC-cam. Nice camera, but the optic and sensor did not give any 4K pop outside the sweet spot. The combination of a not fantastic optic and 8 megapixel crammed into a 1/3 " sensor was not optimal. When the noise reduction kicked in - which it did quite quickly as the 8 megapixel on the sensor did give very low sensitivity - then the image did get smeared = no 4K pop.

I my book this means that 4K cams need a big sensor and proper optics. This makes me think that the 4K BMDCC should have absolutely fantastic 4K pop with Leica M-optics.

I have such a feeling of déjà vu right now. So many of the same conversations when we moved from SD to HD. In fact I bet we could search on here find old arguments and change SD to HD and HD to 4k. No need to think or type.

Although three things have changed since the SD to HD discussions: The economy (worse for many I think), the codecs (better for both recording and delivery) and the growth of mobile (small screen).

Anyone have any thoughts about using the Metabones Speed Booster with the BMPC camera?

from DP Review:

"What is the Speed Booster?

As we reported recently, the Speed Booster is an adapter that allows for a full frame lens to be mounted on APS-C or Micro Four Thirds mirrorless cameras. There are two reasons why this is very big news, and both revolve around the optics inside the adapter. Firstly, Metabones claims that by reducing the image magnification, the Speed Booster produces roughly a 1.09x focal length multiplier, promising a nearly full frame field of view on APS-C. The second claim, as its name implies, is that the Speed Booster increases the lens's speed by a stop, turning an F2.8 full frame lens into an F2.0 optic that allows for low light shooting at a lower ISO sensitivity."

First Impressions: Metabones Speed Booster: Digital Photography Review (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/2667195592/first-impressions-metabones-speed-booster)

There has been much talk on the BMCC forum about using this device on the original BMCC M4/3 camera, interested in opinions of whether it might work on the BMPC camera to allow more variety in lenses, f/stop, and full frame look.

Totally agree on the "4K pop". In fact it is nearly a 3D experience. I believe that has something to do with micro contrast, as I read an article concerning the Leica "pop", and the conclusion was that the Leica optics and sensors had better micro contrast than many others and that was the reason why pictures taken with an Leica had this special look.

To my eye this applies to 4K as well. So it is a combination of optics and sensor. I have tested the 4K JVC-cam. Nice camera, but the optic and sensor did not give any 4K pop outside the sweet spot. The combination of a not fantastic optic and 8 megapixel crammed into a 1/3 " sensor was not optimal. When the noise reduction kicked in - which it did quite quickly as the 8 megapixel on the sensor did give very low sensitivity - then the image did get smeared = no 4K pop.

I my book this means that 4K cams need a big sensor and proper optics. This makes me think that the 4K BMDCC should have absolutely fantastic 4K pop with Leica M-optics.

We've discussed this elsewhere so I'll only say I've shot about a dozen sessions with the JVC 4k which have all been outdoor interviews or scenery. At zero gain, 60fps and an 8x filter the camera looks pretty sweet. I tried one indoor interview but it doesn't do well with low light. The BMCC should solve that with the 35mm sensor and the ability to use good lenses. The JVC has a decent balanced audio stage, hope the BMCC will too. BTW the JVC has a 1/2" sensor not 1/3".

Totally agree on the "4K pop". In fact it is nearly a 3D experience. I believe that has something to do with micro contrast, as I read an article concerning the Leica "pop", and the conclusion was that the Leica optics and sensors had better micro contrast than many others and that was the reason why pictures taken with an Leica had this special look.

To my eye this applies to 4K as well. So it is a combination of optics and sensor. I have tested the 4K JVC-cam. Nice camera, but the optic and sensor did not give any 4K pop outside the sweet spot. The combination of a not fantastic optic and 8 megapixel crammed into a 1/3 " sensor was not optimal. When the noise reduction kicked in - which it did quite quickly as the 8 megapixel on the sensor did give very low sensitivity - then the image did get smeared = no 4K pop.

I my book this means that 4K cams need a big sensor and proper optics. This makes me think that the 4K BMDCC should have absolutely fantastic 4K pop with Leica M-optics.

Try the Canon C100/300 for 4k down sampled to 1080p POP.

Canon C300, 1080... $14,000

BMCC, 4k Raw, global shutter...$3,995

I'm not understanding the thinking in suggesting the Canon.

Sure you can use it. A 43 mount is typically a 43 mount. You will never get close to the look of full frame. Still a good option however to get just a bit wider. Your lens options for Nikon tend to be a bit limited compared to the ranges you can find with M43 lenses but there are some options. there is an 11mm Nikon mount that should be super wide even on the BMPC. Kind of what you gain with the Speed poster adapter gets negated by the extra crop factor of the camera compared to M43 sensor but yes it will help. So instead of that 11mm looking like a 15mm compared to using it on the GH3 it may continue to look like a 11mm on the BMPC by using the Speed Booster adapter. If however you used that 11mm with the Speed Booster on the GH3 that same 11mm would act like a 8mm. So on even playing fields the GH3 will always be able to get wider.

But yes if you add the Speed Booster to the BMPC you may get back to where the GH3 is in terms of field of view but never better and no where near full frame. Keep in mind that is full manual only with zero auto control including aperture. Since that 11-14mm lens is a newer lens it has no aperture ring on the lens so you will have no control. I'm not even sure if it would work since some lenses close their apertures when they are removed from the lens. If you have to use older Nikon lenses with aperture rings good luck finding one wider than 24mm in which case you might as well just use native M43 lenses.

If you have to use older Nikon lenses with aperture rings good luck finding one wider than 24mm in which case you might as well just use native M43 lenses.

There are a few Nikon lenses with aperture rings wider then 24mm.
You have the 18-35 and 20-35 zooms.
There is the 18/2.8, 20/2.8, 24/2.8 and the huge 14/2.8.

Some of these are cheap and plentiful, others cost more then they are worth.

But as you say, Nikons are not the right lenses for the ultra wide look on the BMPC.

Canon C300, 1080... $14,000

BMCC, 4k Raw, global shutter...$3,995

I'm not understanding the thinking in suggesting the Canon.
Duane.....I think you are focusing on the 1080 vs RAW thing...and it is soo much more than that. #1 would be functionality....the C300 is ready to go out of the box (add a card and a lens). The battery that comes with runs 3-4 hours, the cards record much more time, the camera sees in the dark (you'll need 1/4 of the lights you'd normally use), NDs are built in, function buttons abound, XLRs built in, and in post, the codec is basically the equivalent to PRoRes422 and flies into Premier, Final Cut, and even AVID. You will save time & money shooting with this camera and is why the camera is the hottest rental camera in town for over 1 year....and the rental price is holding (it usually drops after 6 months).
On the BM, it is not a functioning camera out of the box...you have to add 1) an audio recording system 2) a battery system 3) a higher level monitor 4) some sort of cage to have #s1, 2, & 3 mounted with the camera, and more...
Now, in comparing the "picture taker" in each camera, the Canon chip is far superior....super 35 sized (vs basically a 16mm size), much better low light(best of all cameras) and very little "grain" at the higher ISOs (noise comes up much faster on BM)......
Also, there is no delivery problem with the Canons while it is still an issue with BM.....
When buying a camera, its most important to get the one that fits your needs. RAW is much like 4K in that it sounds nice, nice to have the option, but does one really need it for the jobs one is working or being hired for.....and do you have lots of time and money because that's what you'll need in post in dealing with either one.

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

Canon C300, 1080... $14,000

BMCC, 4k Raw, global shutter...$3,995

I'm not understanding the thinking in suggesting the Canon.

To add to what Jim said, and don't get me wrong...I think the BMPC is an exciting product for the price, (I pre ordered one) but it's really not in the same league featurewise as the any of the 12k+ cameras on the market. There's a great article that covers a lot of the "need to knows" with I think some rather telling comments from the Dan May, President of BlackMagic....he essentially says they made a conscious decision to sit between the pro cameras on the market and the dslr crowd....essentially not offering many of the features available on cameras like the C300 so they could get to market quickly and NOT have to charge 10k for the camera. It's a completely different paradigm. I also think we cannot take too lightly the workflow issues relative to 4k raw. RED seems ahead in this area, but only with a very expensive set of tools. Focusing on the low cost of this camera juxtaposed to it's RAW output lays out pretty quickly the conundrum this camera creates. You won't be using that Raw much unless you've got a lot of time and money on your hands.

Frankly, I don't think Canon gets enough credit for designing a system as simple and elegant as the c300. It's like they took a page out of Apple's book. Don't give people features that they and the pipeline aren't ready for. I use the C300 in situations I would have never dreamed I could use a camera two years ago. And I've definitely used it more than any other video device I've ever owned. Perfectly. functional.

------

Oh and Jim...just a little correction the new BMPC has a super35 sensor not 16mm.

I was talking about the "old" one.......

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

Try the Canon C100/300 for 4k down sampled to 1080p POP.

Canon C300, 1080... $14,000

BMCC, 4k Raw, global shutter...$3,995

I'm not understanding the thinking in suggesting the Canon.

In addition to what Jim and Barry just said, remember that Philip originally mentioned the C100 as well, which retails at B&H for $5,499. It has the same (or very similar) sensor as the C300 and many of the same features mentioned by Jim. And, as Tom mentioned earlier, both the C100 and C300 are capturing from a 4K sensor, then outputting as 1080p.

I think that C100 and BMCC 4K can definitely be compared in terms of price (once you kit out the BMCC to match the features in the C100). It mostly seems to come down to two things:
(a) Do you feel you have a genuine need to shoot 4K?
(b) Are you prepared to invest the extra time (and therefore money, if you are charging for your time) into the post workflow with a BMCC? Remember, with a camera like a C100, you can set your look beforehand with a picture profile, then expose it correctly and shoot it. This tends to minimize any post time needed for grading.

This is all just my opinion, of course.

S35 sensor. 13 stops DR, 4K, Global Shutter, Compressed Raw, ProRes..etc...@ $4,000?

Yeah, tell them what they're doing wrong!

Save the sarcasm... I own their current camera and there's a lot wrong with it. If I thought anyone from black magic was listening, I'd write a list.

Save the sarcasm... I own their current camera and there's a lot wrong with it. If I thought anyone from black magic was listening, I'd write a list.

Well....I wasn't being sarcastic , so much as I just find it hard to be truly negative about a company that has only been producing cameras for 1 year now, and their second version is offering all these options at these price points. Its not as if I could just go out and buy another camera at $4000 with 4K, S35, Global Shutter, Compressed Raw etc. It wold have been an unrealistic dream just 2 weeks ago.

But yeah, nothing is truly perfect, and theres always room for improvement.

Save the sarcasm... I own their current camera and there's a lot wrong with it. If I thought anyone from black magic was listening, I'd write a list.

And exactly how did you feel $3000.00 was going to give you the perfect cinema camera? We have to be a bit realistic here. I used to buy DVCAM cameras for $12,000.00 and they still had their faults. I think too many have become insanely spoiled and entitled about what they should get in a camera for a couple of bucks. Even RED has its faults and a decent size list of them.