I was wondering if anyone has any comments on whether the mic preamps and the line inputs really are improved over the H4N. There are several early "reviews" online which mainly quote the manufacturer's marketing blurb, but has anyone used one for real in the field?

The six channel recording facility using the optional extra twin XLR inputs would be useful to me if it could do a reasonably clean recording even if only through a line input (I have a mixer with reasonably good preamps - certainly much quieter than the H4n's).

Working mainly as SPC I prefer to capture my audio in more than 2 channels and do the mixing at leisure.

(And yes, I would just buy a SD 788T if I could afford one, and would seriously consider renting for a really important gig). :-)

Here is a FULLY optioned one.

I understand that the #5 and #6 xlr's do not provide phantom power. Here is some more info:
Zoom H6 Digital Recorder + Rode ProCaster – First quick sample CheesyCam (http://cheesycam.com/zoom-h6-digital-recorder-rode-procaster-first-quick-sample/)

Here is a FULLY optioned one.

Very good! :-)

Some wag commenting on an early review of the H6 remarked that the shotgun module seemed "pleased to see you." (Sorry about that - I thought it was funny!)

I understand that the #5 and #6 xlr's do not provide phantom power. Here is some more info:
Zoom H6 Digital Recorder + Rode ProCaster – First quick sample CheesyCam (http://cheesycam.com/zoom-h6-digital-recorder-rode-procaster-first-quick-sample/)

The lack of phantom power on the plug-in XLR module is not really a concern to me as I would be recording from a mixer. I don't think the battery life would be much to write home about anyway if running 6 channels of 48V phantom power from 4 AAAs.

EDIT: Beginning to see various deals on the H6 from various UK suppliers, but nobody seems to have the optional modules yet.

The extra modules are not due out until October/November I think.

Someone who *has* used the H6 has commented that it's noisy - this was on the Planet5D forum (http://forums.planet5d.com/forum.php) and it is in THIS THREAD (http://forums.planet5d.com/threads/126846-Zoom-H6).

Thanks for that link, John.

Hmmm, it doesn't appear like the H6 stood up well to the Tascam DR-60D but on the other hand it wasn't a very scientific test from the description.

I haven't used that TASCAM model myself (nor would it be of much use to me anyway) but I would not be astonished to learn that there are recorders our there with a better S/N ratio than the Zoom H6, even if the H6 turns out Ito be better in that respect that the H4n (not hard, many would say!)

John, as always, thank you for your time in drilling this down for all of us to see. I'm interested in the Z H6 and need reasons NOT to spend money on it......

Grazie

I am always a bit nervous about posting links to other fora/forums, but the US Zoom forum (which has a different and quite specific focus) has a link to a more favourable test with files to download for comparison at Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum • View topic - H6 comparison (http://zoomforum.us/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=19224&sid=431d894c1cf71f754f2c09bd440fdf37)

Still not 100% clear that the H6 is significantly quieter in use than an H4n which is my main concern.

Hi,

Does someone compared the Zoon H6 with the Tascan 100 MKII?

I think it needs a well respected magazine, like Sound On Sound, to do a well researched and proper review of the machine.

I think that SOS are getting one for review.

I found this review to be very helpful, even if it's not scientific.

Zoom H6 Vs H4n + Rode NTG-2 Mic Test PART: 1 - YouTube

There is also a comparison fom Juicedlink that though a bit biased, is still helpful

Zoom H6 Review/Tests/Comparison to Tascam DR-60D and Riggy-Micro - YouTube

~Jay

What I need to know is if we can believe the spec in the PDF user manual
http://www.zoom.co.jp/download/E_H6.pdf

INPUTS 1 – 4
Connectors XLR/TRS combo jacks (XLR: 2 hot,TRS:TIP hot)

Input gain (PAD OFF) –∞ to 55.5 dB
Input gain (PAD ON) –∞ to 35.5 dB
Input impedance 1.8kΩ or more
Maximum allowable input level +22 dBu (PAD ON)
Phantom power +12/+24/+48V (can be turned ON/OFF independently for INPUTS 1–4)
Equivalent input noise (EIN) –120 dBu or less


Since I seem to remember that the lowest it can go (or at least be accurately measured) is about -132 dBu the quoted figure would be fine if actually achieved.

(if anyone has been so impetuous as to actually buy a Zoom H6 before we find out if it's any good)

...That the RC4 remote control unit from the Zoom H4n will work with the H6 on the following functions:
•monitor/headphone volume
•file play, pause and stop
•file select, fast forward and reverse
•record, pause (mark) and stop

The input select and Rec level buttons on the RC4 - as one would expect - do not work.

My little birdie does not have the facilities to test the noise level on the H6 but is very chirpy about the quality from a few test recordings so far.
:-)

Not quite sure what, if anything, this proves, but here it is anyway:

I recorded two empty WAV files at 96kHz/24bit on channels 3 and 4 of a Zoom H6. No mic or line inputs were connected to the XLR/TRS input sockets, so what was recorded was basically silence with circuit noise and possibly a modicum of digital dross.

On Channel 3, I recorded as follows
from 00min 00sec with the H6 gain fully down at 0
from 01min 00sec with the gain at 1
from 02min 00sec with the gain at 2
from 03min 00sec with the gain at 3
and so on up to
from 10min 00sec until the end at 13min 00 with the gain at 10

On Channel 4, I recorded as follows
from 00min 00sec with the H6 gain fully down at 0,
from 11min 00sec with the gain fully up at 10 (as Ch 3)
from 12min 00 sec I switched on the -20dB pad on the Ch 4 input

After importing the two files into Audacity, the result looked as in the pic below.

Conclusions I can draw from this
(1) The H6 preamps are pretty quiet with the gains fully down :-)
(2) It gets noisier as the gain is increased :-)
(3) Both channels seem to behave in a similar fashion
(4) A clean hot signal would stand a better chance of being recorded acceptably (this did not necessarily work with the H4n)

As for the strange negative offset from 01:00 to 02:00 on Ch3, I have no explanation. Might be a problem with Audacity rather than the H6.

I've been pondering an H6 so this is interesting... thanks for performing the tests and posting the results!

From my experience, it might be more relevant to terminate each input with a resistance that is roughly equal to the source impedance of a mic. The value shouldn't be too critical. So, for example, I'd perform the test with perhaps a 470 ohm resistor connected between pins 2 and 3. This will tend to make the noise level more realistic, because open inputs can have relatively higher noise level than you'd experience with a source connected. And of course it won't cause any problems with phantom powering, as long as you connect only between pins 2 and 3, and leave pin 1 (ground) unconnected.

OK Greg, thanks for those comments.

I nipped out and got myself a pack of good quality 470 ohm resistors and wired up two male Neutrik XLRs with a resistor across pins 2 & 3 as suggested, and repeated the tests. For convenience, I'll repeat the explanation of how it was done:

I recorded two empty WAV files at 96kHz/24bit on channels 3 and 4 of a Zoom H6. (This time the 470 ohm test resistors were connected to the channel 3 & 4 XLR input sockets, so what was recorded was still basically silence and circuit noise).

On Channel 3, I recorded as follows
from 00min 00sec with the H6 gain fully down at 0
from 01min 00sec with the gain at 1
from 02min 00sec with the gain at 2
from 03min 00sec with the gain at 3
and so on up to
from 10min 00sec until the end at 13min 00 with the gain at 10

On Channel 4, I recorded as follows
from 00min 00sec with the H6 gain fully down at 0,
from 11min 00sec with the gain fully up at 10 (as Ch 3)
from 12min 00 sec I switched on the -20dB pad on the Ch 4 input

After importing the two new files into Audacity, the result now looks a little different.

Ignoring the first minute with the gain at zero and also the second minute where there is again a strange offset of the noise pattern, I see the following:

•the noise at gain level 2 comes in at almost exactly -96dB
•there is a slight increase at gain level 3 to about -84dB
•the noise level stays much the same through gain levels 4 and 5
•another slight increase at gain level 6 to about -72dB
•slight increase again at level 7 to about -64dB
•at level 8 up to about -58dB
•up at gain level 9 to about -52ish dB
•stays much the same at gain level 10, and this is matched by Ch4 underneath.

The -20 dB pad on Ch4 at 12min 00sec puts a click on BOTH channels which is not so good, but otherwise does not seem to affect the noise level much.

I will continue to amuse myself by testing the other inputs (well 1 & 2 at least, as the plug-in XLR module for the L & R channels is not available yet).

Usual disclaimers apply to all the above, but it may be of interest to some.

It's incorrect that you're recording "silence." Even the best low noise resistors generate noise, it's called thermal noise. Johnson?Nyquist noise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson%E2%80%93Nyquist_noise)

I believe you'll find that any device that adds gain increases the volume of this noise. It's hard to imagine things working otherwise.

I've tried to give an indication of the self-noise generated by the H6 preamps by comparing them to the preamps in my RME UFX. I output a pretty quiet test tone, registering about 50 dB, and recorded it with a single mic through a splitter and into the two recording devices.

I did this with both a battery powered condenser mic and a low output ribbon. You can download clips and compare them for yourself: Zoom H6 vs RME UFX | Homebrewed Music (http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/08/28/zoom-h6-vs-rme-ufx/)

In other articles I've done some music recording comparing the two recorders: Zoom H6 – Acoustic Guitar Shootout | Homebrewed Music (http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/08/15/zoom-h6-acoustic-guitar-shootout/) including a bit of video: Zoom H6 Acoustic Guitar Shootout - YouTube

And I've used the recorder for my latest two slack key videos.

I haven't tried the recent competitors from Tascam and Fostex, but this Zoom H6 sounds very very good to me.

Fran

Fran, welcome to DVinfo and thanks for your contribution and links, very interesting.

You may not have noticed that I had already referenced your link earlier in the thread in post #8 after coming across it when googling 'H6 review', but it's great to hear from you personally.

Yes thanks, I am aware of the thermal noise issue when using resistors and did make a ( very!) fleeting reference to it my post #12. My maths is rather rusty so I was hoping some kind soul would make a simple suggestion to improve the first 'test' - thanks again Greg for the value of the resistor!

As I said in my disclaimers, I make no claims for the significance of my quick 'tests', but there must be some method of determining accurately the level of self noise in mic preamps under known conditions and I was curious to know whether anyone (other than Zoom themselves, one would hope) had done it.

I am in the process of doing some comparison tests myself using a matched pair of Rode NT1As (because of their low self noise and reasonably high output) on the H4n and the H6 but have not noticed a huge difference so far. It sounds fine on your comparisons though.

Thanks again for coming in on this.

I wonder what has happened to the promised additional modules? UK dealers were told to expect availability by mid October. No sign of the XLR module at all, and the APH65G shotgun mic is still on "preorder" status.

Personally I have no use for the shotgun module when there are so many "real" shotgun mics available - I bought the H6 because of its ability to record 6 channels. So far we're stuck with either using the unbalanced 3.5 mm jack input on the X/Y module or the having the recorder placed as a microphone ie in the performance area with all the impracticality that entails.

The XLR module is in stock at US retailers.

Fran

That's good to know, Fran - I hope it won't be long before it arrives here.

Mine arrived just 10 minutes ago,,,,, heavy little sucker.
The overall weight comes to a couple of grams under 600g (the same as 600ml drink bottle of water)

The Zoom EXH-6 XLR/TRS Combo Modules ( http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/recording-studio/detail.asp?stock=13111811211572#main-product-overview) are in stock now at UK dealers. £59.00 seems to be the going rate for now.

... but it's not what I pad for mine! :-)

I'll try the same noise tests I did before (on the main 1/2/3/4 channels) but on the L/R inputs using the EXH-6
module.

Also, having read on another forum about possible difficulties in matching levels on the EXH-6 module to the main 1/2/3/4 XLR inputs, I'll try a test tone on all of them in turn.

Would this work directly w a hot mixer output? I set it to line input for the mix pre D normally. If I can dial it directly into the H6 it would be great. Else I need an additional pad.

In church on Sunday, I recorded from the line outputs of a Phonic AM 642D mixer (http://www.phonic.com/en/am-642d.html) via the EXH-6 XLR/TRS Module inputs (with the 20dB pad in) mainly to test the auto -12dB backup on the main L/R tracks. It worked fine with a hot signal that I was trying to peak on the H6 at -12dB without using the limiters (NOT an important recording, just playing about!). It only clipped once on an unexpected cough. The limiters would have taken care of it had I used them and the backup was fine.

Interestingly, the H6 performed very well but I really will have to stop using the Shure PGX-1 radiomics if we are recording services. The gate and compander operation is really quite intrusive and poor compared to using my Sennheiser G2's and G3's. I was not aware of any noise contributed by the H6 preamps but the gain was well down at less than 3 so I wasn't expecting to.

I think it needs a well respected magazine, like Sound On Sound, to do a well researched and proper review of the machine.

I think that SOS are getting one for review.

I just discovered that the H6 was reviewed in the November edition. I am a little disappointed in the review which doesn't tell me anything I didn't know already.

On the subject of preamp noise levels
Budget recorders also tend to introduce slightly higher levels of audible noise, but this too was pleasingly absent.
was all that the review contributed to the discussion. Somehow I was expecting a bit more from SOS.

Colin, I'm going to use the dreaded words "auto levels" and ask if you know for sure whether the H6 performs in the same way as the H4; that is does it respond to a spike in the sound by lowering the auto levels for the rest of the recording. There are times when auto is the best for me to use but the H4's implementation of it makes it unusable for me. Thanks.

Pete

Peter, the Zoom H6 does not have an "auto level" function as such, so no, the H6 does not perform in the same way as the H4n.

Have a look at the user manual (http://www.zoom.co.jp/download/E_H6.pdf) and you will see what I mean. The recording level has to be set physically with the gain knobs (called "input volume" controls in the manual) for each channel separately. An auto recording start (and stop) function is available but that is not what you want.

What is needed is to get the hang of checking or at least estimating the required input gain with reasonable accuracy, then take care of unexpected peaks using the compressor/limiter function and a -12dB back up recording if desired. This is a much better idea than using auto gain which will inevitably produce a "pumping" effect. The preamps on the H6 are quieter than on the H4n, so there is a bit more leeway for recording at a "safe" level that is unlikely to clip. Whether it is worth recording at 24bit settings I leave to others with less rusty technical and mathematical skills to say - the general consensus is that 24bit recording isn't effective on the H4n because of the high noise floor.

BTW, a came across a little nugget of information on another forum about the compressor/limiter function but I will need to start another thread about that as I don't think it would be acceptable to repost on this forum without permission.