DVi uses MailChimp for its occasional newsletters — for example, I just sent one out last night with a coupon code for the Cutting Edge Post-Production Tour with Adam Epstein. If you got it, it’s a big help to me if you click through and check it out.

I’d be more than happy to use our current subscriber list for any dedicated UWOL Challenge mail outs. Also, n the past I’ve added a UWOL Challenge banner to our newsletter and that can be done again at any time.

All i need is the send list and the message and it can go out on DVi’s MailChimp account if y’all decide that you want to reach out to those folks.
Much appreciated, Chris!
And the coupon code for the Tour was a nice thing. Already clicked through.

Maybe the UWOL banner could be added to those newsletters that are sent out in the weeks before the challenges? (Say, if there are any newsletters in January, May, August and/or November, the UWOL banner could be added)

Hey people !

Well isn't it cool to have all you folks chatting in one thread again about 'UWOL' !! - I just had to post as well. A big hello to players new and old, I'm pleased to see this community is still going and thinking about how it can grow once more.

UWOL has been very important to me. It was such a great platform on which to learn. Lets face it it there's nothing like making films to teach you how to be a film maker. For me it really was like a mini film school.

Why? because of three things.

1. Critique, critique...errr, did I mention critique! (I really wasn't that cruel was I?)

For me it's a very simple equation. You learn primarily when you get things wrong. If no one ever tells you something can be improved you will keep doing the same things and show no improvement. I know things are not always black and white but popular consensus is often correct and can be a signal to work harder or think again about something. If everyone just pats each other on the back what is to be gained!? Now of course the converse is true, if something's great then say so and you and everyone else can do more of it !

*DVINFO challenge note - The concept of commenting on other players entries before peer judging is just ridiculous. I entered one of these a year or so ago and I really disliked this. The 'critique' simply became a popularity campaign...it totally ruined any peer based education that is always my primary reason for entering these things. Please don't do anything like this!!


2. Peer competition/interpretation/creativity

Seeing how 25 other people (Back in the day) deal with the same topic you have been given is really inspiring. Especially when you have the forum to discuss it with them. I used to repeatedly watch the best films and note everything I and others liked. I then incorporated those things into my work the next time. Do that film after film and soon you have the best attributes of 10 different people. That makes your work have much more depth and variation.


3. Deadlines (and regularity)

This is just SO important. It really is so much easier to finish something when there's a tight deadline. It forces you to project manage and be realistic about your ideas, schedule, shotlist and post. Added to this the regularity of UWOL was just great. You could be constantly working on projects and be in one phase or another of production....it really was a mini film school !


Other thoughts.... A prize will always draw you more competitors. A prize creates a desire and that desire means you work harder, if you work harder you improve more. Now when I say 'prize' I don't just mean a physical object or cash. When we ran the UWOL site and were getting 20+ entries it was a real prize to have you film featured as a winner against 25 other films. It was also very easy to look back and see previous winners and the whole uwol library. More entries to a competition makes winning it a bigger challenge and thus a bigger 'prize'. I think having your work viewed and critiqued (There's that word again) by a judge with some standing is also a prize in itself and shouldn't be under estimated, personally I think that's a better way of doing things than peer voting within a small community. I guess what I'm saying if you can get this thing rolling again and make winning feel special it will sustain and grow, I'm sure of it. Physical prizes are definitely a way to start the ball rolling but it seems to me this competition needs more of a voice. There are tons of people that would take part but they have to know about it and when they do it has to seem prominent enough to be worth bothering with. I think a standalone website or even just a single page would be a great start...it just gives UWOL a face!

Well done Trond for keeping UWOL going. Meryem, Kevin and I have fond memories of our time and we'd all love to see it fly once more!

Thanks a bunch for your inputs, Mat! Much appreciated.

When you gave critics, it was always straight forward, and that I like a lot.
If I do anything wrong (or good), I really would like to hear it. How can I improve if I am not aware of mistakes...

I see your point about the value of a website. But if we should re-launch an UWOL website, I would definitely need someone else doing that. I know nothing about making websites.


By the way, Mat:
I am challenging you to sign up for the September challenge! Haven't seen your name on the sign up lists in ages. :)

I would like to raise another important topic for consideration/discussion if I may.

Please can we decide what is permissible regarding the use of animations, motion graphics and other post-production effects in our submissions, including things like the degree of color correction that may be done? If the UWOL Challenge is going to be upgraded and prizes are going to be handed out to winners in order to attract more players, then I think this is a good time to set this out clearly.

The rules state the following:
“The use of effects templates from Motion and After Effects (AE), Livetype, etc. is permissible, without limits.”

This rule regarding the use of effects was put into place after players like Cat, Mike and I started using After Effects during and after the long-form films, but this statement is open to a number of interpretations. Some may interpret it as having permission to use third-party templates that one can adapt for personal use - especially for titles. To me it meant carrying on with what I had been doing before (adding motion graphics or animations to illustrate concepts in my stories that are educational in nature.) The ‘without limits’ part of this statement is what is bothering me. I will use myself as an example:

Lately I have been using this challenge to experiment with different techniques and in one of my submissions, “On Cue”, I used two photo images and the light (shadow) capability of AE, executed to put across the concept of day length. Instead of this I could have done a time-lapse sequence, as I did for the germinating seed, but it was way easier and quicker in AE. Besides the fact that I should have used two current photos for this and didn’t, there is a more important question - was I being efficient with my time or crossing the line here by doing it in AE instead of with the camera? This is the sort of thing that needs ironing out.

I am sensitive to the fact that not everyone has an effects program and may find its use by other players to be a problem. Possibly we need to decide if this challenge should be restricted to video only or if use of effects is permissible. If so, what restrictions should there be, if any, or can we try anything we like as long as we declare it?

Personally, while I enjoy the opportunity to try out new things in After Effects, I have no problem if animations are restricted. Can we please decide what the rules will be in this regard.

Your constructive input on this would be appreciated and of benefit. Many thanks.

You are right, Marj. Might be worth updating that rule/guideline as well.

My initial thoughts are that visual effects like those you describe from After Effects and Motion, should be allowed to a certain degree. Not as the "main feature" of the film, but to enhance/ support the story or parts of it.
A limit of it's use should be set, but if the limit should be a fixed number (ex 10%) or something else, I'm not sure what would be best practically.

So far I can't remember anyone using too much visual effects in their UWOL films.

I think that the proper amount of third party templates, titles etc would be self regulating.
We are a nature and wildlife film challenge so I'm guessing if people thought someone was doing a film that was predominately animation or some other computer generated thing whether we continue with peer judged or go with guest judging or a combo of both, people would be called out for it.

I think any time you start putting limits on some things you stifle creativity.

The time limit is good, the length limit is good as well because it forces you to be creative with your time.
But if you start putting limits on the amount of color correction or use of pre packaged title sequences you are putting people in a situation where they can't express themselves totally.

I know there are photography and video purists that say you have to shoot things exactly as you find them. So if there is a twig in tour shot, you can't move it because it violates the "rules".

Mat heavily graded his Panda winning film "Hudson's Monarchs" to give it a sense of going back in time for his recreations. I think it added to the film.

I think we need to adhere to the K.I.S.S. method and once we start putting in limitations we tend to start building upon them and restrictions grow tighter.

Thanks for putting this into perspective Kevin!

The reason I felt I needed to raise the issue at this point is because I have always felt a bit uncomfortable using After Effects out of a concern that other players may be unhappy with its use here and are too polite to say something.

Your input is refreshing.

Mat heavily graded his Panda winning film "Hudson's Monarchs" to give it a sense of going back in time for his recreations. I think it added to the film.
That was exactly my point too. As long as the effects are added as a support for the film, it should be allowed, as it is today.
But if it is taken too far and the effect becomes the subject of the film itself, then the limit is passed.

#whatkevinsaid !

I was thinking about a couple things this morning.

Chris, forgive me if it's already there. I'm on my iPad on a bad connection so I didn't want to go back and look.
Is there a sticky thread here pointing to the UWOL forum and one on the forum pointing here?
I typically tend to just come here to see what's new and had totally forgotten that there is a UWOL forum for non challenge discussions. Saw names there that have never signed up for a challenge. So maybe a sticky thread to this forum might be a good idea as well as posting a thread for each challenge to come over and sign up and be a part of it.

I really need to utilize that forum during non challenge times as I'd really like to work on a bigger project but get stuck so many places along the way.

I had some other ideas but they kind of violate my KISS ideology. :)

I guess the other question I have is do we just want to utilize this forum for times when there is a challenge going on or is there things we can do with it to utilize it during other times or is the other UWOL forum the place we need to be when there's no challenge going?

Is there a sticky thread here pointing to the UWOL forum and one on the forum pointing here?

I guess the other question I have is do we just want to utilize this forum for times when there is a challenge going on or is there things we can do with it to utilize it during other times or is the other UWOL forum the place we need to be when there's no challenge going?
I guess these questions were for Chris, but anyway...

I have not seen any sticky thread with reference to the two UWOL forums. But I wonder if it would be a good idea if I post in the "non challenge UWOL forum" as an heads up, when I post the signup threads.
Must admit I haven't been so very active in the non-challenge forum myself. Should probably do something about that.

I began following this forum during the early 2000's when it was called the XL Watchdog as I was making a 26 programme tv series on three xl1's and found this forum to be a wealth of information. I joined up in 2004. I have had only two entries in UWOL as a result of some prodding from Lorinda :) I did enjoy plus also gained from the experience.

I've just read this thread and think every post makes a valid point. People come and go such is the pattern of life. I wouldn't fret over, are the rules too tight, or are the critics and comments too hurtful? Personal circumstances take an unexpected turn of events, we feel our neck of the woods may have become boring to others, or we just become too darned busy trying to scratch out a living. In my case I was bankruped through a property scam on reaching retirement.

Anyway! Lack of interest and participation are not confined to UWOL. It's a general malady many groups, clubs and organisations face throughout the western world. TV stations face declining viewers. Large sports events draw a big crowd but at local level attendances are down. Clubs, churches, art and aid volunteers are just a few examples of declining interest or participation.

Where is everybody? Good question. Either working their guts out or at home trying to relax. You tube, Facebook, Twitter and texting. The keyboard and monitor have taken over. Never in the history of mankind have we chained to a object as we have the cellphone. That's about it. How do you beat it? Dunno mate.

These are challenging times.

I would like to have another crack at the next UWOL.

You make some valid observations Owen.

Seeing as this thread was started to kick around ideas . . here is just another idea.

Yesterday I went out to find some shots for the current (September) challenge and it struck me that everything I was filming was pretty similar in nature to the images I found for last year’s September
challenge.

This got me thinking that it may be a good idea to consider adding some variety and interest by shifting the initial starting month each year by one month so we do not always film in the same four months every year.

For my own interest I drew up a timetable to see if this would work.
(I started by moving the dates forward by one month but ran into trouble with a break of three months at the beginning of next year instead of two so I moved them backwards by one month and came up with the following calendar as an illustration.)


(Of course it would also mean that the annual DVC/UWOL Challenge would then have to become an optional extra each year.)

I would be interested to find out if others here have similar problems always filming in the same four months every year.

Just an update regarding Marj's thoughts in the post above mine about the months we are running UWOL challenge.

December might not be the most optimal month of having a challenge. Many people are busy with the holidays, so I am thinking about either going with Marj's suggestion of changing one month each year... or just have a challenge during the following months every year:
February, May, August, November.

(With the possibility of a "fun shoot" once in a while in between the official scheduled 4 challenges, like we have done a couple times in the past)

Any comments or thoughts are most welcome.

.............
I believe many of you (including possible newcomers) already are prepaired for this year's December challenge, so I will not change that one. Any changes will be announced well in advance, with effect from the first challenge of 2015.

December 2014:
Due to DVC challenge appear to be put on hold (at least it is very quiet over there), it is a possibility that there might not be a combined charity challenge.
UWOL will go as planned, with or without DVC, and I will get back to you later with info if there will be charity involved, or if it will be run as a regular UWOL challenge.
Waiting for Dylan (the master of DVC for those who didn't know) to answer my mail.

I certainly like the idea of sliding the months around to get a bit of variety.
Course the way the weather is around here, a month here or there may not make a bit of difference.
We have freezing one night then 60 the next.

If we were say always locked into March, it's a crummy time here in Eastern Iowa. so sliding it to April would mean more spring things for me to film or dropping it to February would still be in the heart of winter.

I'm open to anything that'll give us more variety in the seasons.

I think Marj’s idea about rotating the schedule is really good. Not only would it get us all out of a rut and give us new perspectives to explore, I think that in the long run it would do much to remove any seasonal biases based upon the player’s location. The down side is that it will be a little harder to remember when each Challenge begins and we may have to implement the kind of notification system discussed earlier in order to not lose players through forgetfulness.

I will add my vote for Marj's idea - I think changing the month will allow a bit more variety, and I like Trond's suggestion of a ¨fun shoot¨in between every now and again.

A notification system should not be that hard to implement - I'm sure most of us use some sort of computer calendar so setting up notifications should be feasible.

Lets also not forget the ¨Around the World¨ idea that was floated - maybe we could look at fresh ideas to see if we can make some sort of halfway house, to get something going!

I wonder if it would be a good idea if I post in the "non challenge UWOL forum" as an heads up, when I post the signup threads.Sorry for the late reply, but that was a great idea, and it's now a "sticky" in that forum:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/under-water-over-land/524551-uwol-challenge.html

We can use that same thread to post future UWOL Challenge updates as well.

Thanks a bunch, Chris.
I would appreciate if you spread the word about the December challenge and future challenges in the DVInfo newsletters as well.

Everyone:
Beginning in 2015, UWOL Challenge will follow the rotation schedule Marj suggested.
First Challenge of 2015, will be February! Make a note in your calendars.
Thank you all for the inputs.

Just a couple of points:

Currently (2014) there are two months between challenges. In order to move the Challenge back by one month annually I had to drop one month between challenges once EVERY year.

In calendar #1, I dropped the month at the beginning of the year 2015 and it worked its way backwards in subsequent years. (See calendar #1 attached, which is just a better version of my original calendar.)(The grey blocks in the year represent the months that we don’t play.)

However, I was thinking that having two challenges close together (one month apart) always happening around the end of the year may be a problem for some as it is a busy time of the year! ?

Perhaps instead of dropping one month close to the end of the year, it would be better to drop the month after the first challenge of the year. (See calendar #2 attached.)

We can’t get rid of December altogether but it only appears when we start the calendar with January and as you will notice when we start in January we end up with five challenges. This means that everyone will still have an opportunity to do four challenges per year even if they miss the December challenge.

After this the last three years (2015-2017 on Calendar #2) (2016-2018 on Calendar #1) are simply repeated ad infinitum. By doing this we get to play in every month of the year but over a period of three years.

If we decide to go with calendar #2, which is strangely simpler, then we would still play March next year (not start in Feb as for calendar #1) before the cycle kicks in.

Opinions would be appreciated.

Point taken, Marj.

Final decision (and updated guidelines) will be announced no later than sign up for the December challenge is posted.
Until then, comments and thoughts are welcome.