I no longer have the camera but, yes it does shoot 50i and 60i, but I didn't check on the bit rates for every mode option, there are so many! However I think it will do 50i and 60i at 50Mbps.

It WILL shoot 24fps, 25fps, 30fps, 50fps and 60fps at 50Mbps 10bit 422 long GoP, so I see no reason why that wouldn't include 25fps/50i (more correctly 25i) or 30fps/60i (30i) at 50Mbps.

Alister write .... 25fps/50i (more correctly 25i)

LOL...yes if you know the EBU standards ...available since some years
but http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/broadcast-products-camcorders-xdcam/pxw-x70/features/ ... know it not..

additional question: outside from EBU ....in USA or Japan
it is the sam change to 1080i 25 instead of 1920x1080 50i to notice in the standards .. or not ??

Hans

Yes the correct EBU term is to use the frame hight, followed by i/p then frame rate in frames per second.

So, 1080i25, 1080p25, 2160p24 etc.

50i has never really made sense as the frame rate is 25fps, not 50fps. It's confusing to have 50i and 50p mean two different frame rates under the SMPTE system. The EBU system makes much more sense but even amongst EBU countries the SMPTE 50i standard still gets used. Fortunately interlace is slowly going the way of the dodo so 50i/60i is becoming less and less common anyway and I doubt we will ever see a 50 or 60fps interlace system, so i50 and i60 will probably never need to be used.

I think the real problem is that there is a difference between exposure rate ( the rate at which the camera takes pictures ) and time code frame rate. 50i or 60i have the same temporal motion as their progressive versions 50P or 60P they just have half the vertical resolution. So to me exposure rate makes a lot more sense rather than time code frame rate. 50i or 60i says that the exposure rate is 50 or 60 but it is interlaced meaning only half the vertical resolution ( a field ) is recorded or transmitted. Time code is 25fps or 30fps ( 29.97 NTSC ), two fields is a frame. So in a progressive only world someone who likes the smoother motion of a faster exposure rate needs 50P or 60P not covered in some of the disc specs at 1920x1080 for instance but the interlaced exposure rate is in the spec. Shoot at 50 or 60 progressive then convert to go to Bluray for instance and throw away half the information and let the player or TV fill in the missing fields !!!.

I just hope the X70 4K version manages to shoot 50/60P like my AX1 even if that means a factory upgrade to change to XQD cards.

Ron Evans

Alister,

This camera leaves no space for the PMW-100 imho? Can we see it as a PMW-100 successor? Will the PMW-100 remain available after this release?

I notice that the camera is now available for preorder at B&H for Sept delivery @ $2,299.00.
Seems like an attractive price for such a feature rich camera

... Shoot at 50 or 60 progressive then convert to go to Bluray for instance and throw away half the information and let the player or TV fill in the missing fields !!!....
Aye, there's the rub. And if most of your potential audience are still only able to play DVDs or watch mega-compressed YouTube on not-very-broad-at-all broadband...?

However, I do rather like the look of the X70 as a very competant, compact HD camera. I'm looking forward to reading a decent back-to-back review with the Canon XF200.

BTW - are you a regular visitor to the Watercress Line, Alister? I'll be working in Ropley signalbox on Sunday 24th. Pop in and say hello if you happen to be around.

I notice that the camera is now available for preorder at B&H for Sept delivery @ $2,299.00.
Seems like an attractive price for such a feature rich camera
Suggests a street price of below $2k by the end of the year. Very competitive!

Suggests a street price of below $2k by the end of the year. Very competitive!

Received the same notice from B&H today. Considering the advanced feature set of X70, I too am surprised by the competitive $2,299 price.

Other than my NX5U which cannot shoot at 60P in 1920x1080 the other cameras I use ( CX700, NX30U and FDR-AX1 ) all shot at 60P. I just use a 60i project in Edius and mix them all just fine for export to BLuray or DVD. But I at least have all progressive files at source. I will get a X70 and maybe a X160 to replace my NX5U too. I will keep the NX30 for its wonderful image stabilizer though. I really do not like slow frame rates so hope the 4K upgrade for the X70 isn't just 30P.

Ron Evans

$2,299 is a nice price point.
I believe this will be the least expensive camera with an SDI connection, right?

It indeed seems Bill. Even the Canon XA25 is a more expensive camera.

However, I do rather like the look of the X70 as a very competant, compact HD camera. I'm looking forward to reading a decent back-to-back review with the Canon XF200.

I can't imagine it would be at all a close contest. I use an XF100, and had thought about upgrading to the XF200. But recently I'm using the Sony FDR-AX100, and consider even this a step up from what I expect the XF200 will be. The XF cameras don't do very well in low light; the AX100 does. And the image sharpness of the FRD-AX100 bests the XF100. Stepping up to the added capability of the PXW-X70 over the FDR-AX100 really rules out any chance the XF200 has of a good showing.

About the attractive introductory pricing of the PXW-X70, the camera is '4K ready", not 4K. I haven't seen when the 4K upgrade will be available, nor whether it will be free or come with an additional price. When this settles down I'll probably add a PXW-X70, assuming the price is still in line.

Other than my NX5U which cannot shoot at 60P in 1920x1080 the other cameras I use ( CX700, NX30U and FDR-AX1 ) all shot at 60P. I just use a 60i project in Edius and mix them all just fine for export to BLuray or DVD. But I at least have all progressive files at source. I will get a X70 and maybe a X160 to replace my NX5U too. I will keep the NX30 for its wonderful image stabilizer though. I really do not like slow frame rates so hope the 4K upgrade for the X70 isn't just 30P.

Ron Evans
I agree Ron,
but back we go again with the distribution. DVD are obsolete , bluray are unknown to the most, flash cards are "geeky" , youtube doesn't even play 60p (at the moment) and right now youtube means (at least for me) the most important distribution of my work. I see that at Sony's are pretty serious about 4K , and 4K is the future in my opinion, but when the distribution will be ready for 4K and 60p there will be new cameras for sure. I like (on paper) this new little thing here (but still no idea about the rolling shooter and the fact that the "reviewers" don't even go there sure doesn't look good. I don't know Ron... another 4K camera for stills? No thanks . I'm back with EX1r that (for the work that I do and make money with) is more than enough. But for 2.5K I'll think about it (for still and very controlled and shoots only).

Charles, when you say the AX100 is sharper and better in low light than the XF100, are you talking about footage shot in 1080p? Or 4K downsized in post?

And, does anyone have info on whether the X70 retains the touch screen focus/exposure and the 720p120fps of the AX 100?

$2,299 is a nice price point.
I believe this will be the least expensive camera with an SDI connection, right?

Indeed, and again, I'll say this will be a great "go to" camera for on-location multi-cam live streaming productions. Being able to fly to shoots with three Sony PXW-X70 (handles detached) and, say, a Roland VR3-EX switcher as carry-on is cost effective and stress reducing.

The $2,299 price is right... now if Sony will deliver the 3G-SDI formats to seal the deal for our multi-unit purchase. (1080/30p, 720/30p among the standard ones). I'll probably harp on this until Sony makes the User Manual pdf available.

The dual slot recording where it can record to two sd cards at the same time for instant backup is huge to me. That's my biggest fear currently with the AX100, that there will one day be an sd card failure and poof there goes my footage. That one feature alone makes me want to get this camera, although I'd prefer to wait and see how they will handle the 4k firmware upgrade.

...And, does anyone have info on whether the X70 retains the touch screen focus/exposure?

One of the video reports I saw- I think it was one of Alister Chapman's- specifically mentioned that the X70 definitely has the touch focus/exposure feature.
IMO that is a super useful feature- even more so with the enhanced DOF of the X70

Charles, when you say the AX100 is sharper and better in low light than the XF100, are you talking about footage shot in 1080p? Or 4K downsized in post?

In my case it is shot in 4K and downsized in post. I haven't had a reason to shoot directly in 1080p yet; I'm using the camera mostly for 4K; and just some 1080p for distribution.

I haven't seen when the 4K upgrade will be available, nor whether it will be free or come with an additional price.
From what I've read, Sony has said it will be a paid upgrade.

Yes, X70 does have touch to focus, touch to expose.

The 4K upgrade will be a paid option. Available 1st half next year, probably around the same time as the live streaming upgrade. My guess would be a cost of $500 but that is a guess.

Yes, X70 does have touch to focus, touch to expose.

The 4K upgrade will be a paid option. Available 1st half next year, probably around the same time as the live streaming upgrade. My guess would be a cost of $500 but that is a guess.

Knowing that I would be purchasing the x70 , I just purchased the AX100 (can be returned in 45 days - Best Buy) to test out it's capabilities and I am truly impressed. I am able to monitor the 4k files from the Edius timeline through Blackmagic Decklink to a Dell 32" 4K monitor (10 bit) and I am blown away by the quality. The low light capabilities is somewhat less than my PMW 200 but with the judicious use of gain that is easily compensated for (no perceptible grain on the 4K screen).

Getting to the point - since Sony has 4K operating well in the AX100 - why would they stage the release of 4K in the x70 somewhere 6 to 9 months down the line? I can only assume they are working on a different implementation of 4K in the professional camera - something that would incorporate a higher bitrate as well as 4.2.2 and 10 bit and perhaps even 60 p. I assume that it would still be working with SDXC cards as XQD would require a hardware upgrade.

On another topic - I preordered the x70 from B&H Photo - since they are accepting preorders does that mean availability within 4-6 weeks or longer?

Alister, thanks for the info. Does the X70 retain the 120fps of the AX100 at 720p?

Given the $2300 price I hope the estimate of $500 for 4K is accurate. I'm hoping that the 4K implementation will reflect several months of improvement, and the pricing works for me too. In fact, this will let us see the details of the 4K implementation before we decide whether it's worth it to us or not.

On another topic - I preordered the x70 from B&H Photo - since they are accepting preorders does that mean availability within 4-6 weeks or longer?

If the past is any predictor, I ordered a Sony RX100 III as soon as it was available for preorder @ B&H.
The camera was shipped around 4 weeks later.
I'm thinking middle of September is probably a reasonable expectation.

Getting to the point - since Sony has 4K operating well in the AX100 - why would they stage the release of 4K in the x70 somewhere 6 to 9 months down the line? I can only assume they are working on a different implementation of 4K in the professional camera - something that would incorporate a higher bitrate as well as 4.2.2 and 10 bit and perhaps even 60 p. I assume that it would still be working with SDXC cards as XQD would require a hardware upgrade.

I think you are correct, the 4K upgrade issue has to do with the XAVC codec:
The AX100 uses XAVC-S which I understand to be 8 bit, 4:2:0, long GOP.
I've read that the plan for the X70 is to provide for XAVC 10 bit, 4:2:2, 50 mbs, long GOP

The AX100 uses XAVC-S which I understand to be 8 bit, 4:2:0, long GOP.
I've read that the plan for the X70 is to provide for XAVC 10 bit, 4:2:2, 50 mbs, long GOP
The 50-Mbps, 10-bit XAVC announced for the X70 is for HD. The AX100's XAVC-S requires 60 Mbps for 8-bit, 4:2:0, long-GOP QFHD. I think it's unlikely that, for 4K/QFHD on the X70, they'd be able to get a higher bit depth and better color encoding into a lower data rate.

The difference between the FDR-AX1 and the PXW-Z100 is that the the Z100 is 422 10bit XAVC and FDR-AX1 is 420 8 bit XAVC-S lacking HD SDI interfaces etc that are on the Z100. Both are waiting for a promised firmware update to make a few interface work etc including the ability to also record AVCHD 2.0. The new X180/160 have this range of codecs at 1920x1080 so I am hoping that they will include the full range when they upgrade the firmware and my AX1 will get 10 bit 422 but lack HD SDI interfaces etc much like there was the difference between the NX5U and the AX2000. Personally I hope the upgrade to the X70 is a hardware change to XQD cards and 60P. There has to be a reason for the extra space in the hand grip other than adding the SDI interface etc. Is there a vent on the bottom for the fan !!!

Ron Evans

This seems to be a new Sony site for the X70. Additional images, details and specs:

https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/micro-xdcam/cat-supporttraining/product-PXWX70/

.... one from the two is a lie....in cause to 1080 50p

___________________________________________________

http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/broadcast-products-camcorders-xdcam/pxw-x70/features/
The PXW-X70 records XAVC Long GOP 422 10-bit 1920 x 1080 50p/60p/50i/60i/ 30p/25p/24p at 50 Mbps
____________________________________________________
https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/micro-xdcam/cat-supporttraining/product-PXWX70/
Recording Format: XALC Long : XAVC-L 50 mode - 1920x1080/59.94i, 50i, 29.97p, 23.98p, 25p
- 1280x720/59.94p, 50p

or should I to say: ..Ohh, It is a Sony..(website) ;-))

Hans

I too see a difference in specs to that quoted on the UK site. Not unusual for the North American site to get things wrong on first posting !!!

Ron Evans

Interesting... the $2599 suggested retail price puts this camera squarely in Canon XA20 territory, and not in the realm of the more expensive and just-released Canon XF200 like some have suggested.

Interesting... the $2599 suggested retail price puts this camera squarely in Canon XA20 territory, and not in the realm of the more expensive and just-released Canon XF200 like some have suggested.

In fact, I have been waiting patiently for a replacement for my XA20- the X70 definitely solves that problem.
It's going to be brutal competition for Canon

Yes the price point was a happy surprise.
I was ready to replace my JVC HM150 with the XF200 to get the three control rings but when reading about the really nice features like the press-to lock, future 4K and large sensor I begun to wonder how much more then the XF200 I would be.
And then it's less. :)

In fact, I have been waiting patiently for a replacement for my XA20- the X70 definitely solves that problem.
It's going to be brutal competition for Canon

It will be brutal, considering that B&H are asking $2299 for the X70 and not the full-pop MSRP of $2599.00. The only avenues Canon have here are:

a) drop the price of the XA25 (the X70 has a single SDI output, amazingly enough) and the XA20 too,

or

b) drop the price on the just-released XF200 so their customers don't feel it's such a long stretch to get a camera that might be more of a pro camera in terms of function and features.

I really think Sony blindsided Canon with the X70, because Canon don't have ANY 4K-capable cameras in their line-up right now, and none on the horizon.

I agree Ron,
but back we go again with the distribution. DVD are obsolete , bluray are unknown to the most,..... ).

Well all my delivery is DVD and a few Bluray nothing on the internet or by file !!! 4K for me is ONLY to crop a 1920x1080 from the 4K file. Everyone has their own viewpoint. I think we may see 4K appear quicker than people think.

Ron Evans

CVP has released their starting price as one of the first in Europe. It's even under 2K euros ex-VAT. This camcorder really seems much value for the money. £1,590 / € 1990 ex-VAT.

Buy - Sony PXW-X70//C (PXW70C) 1.0 type Exmor R CMOS sensor compact XDCAM camcorder with 12x zoom lens recording XAVC, AVCHD and DV (http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/sony_pxw-x70-c)

Is the rolling shutter that much of a thing? I've been hearing about this crap for years, only ever had a problem with it when dealing with camera flashes.

It's a very aggressive pricing. Even if the 4k-update would add another €4-500 it will be interesting to see if canon changes their prices for the XA-series and XF200.

Well all my delivery is DVD and a few Bluray nothing on the internet or by file !!! 4K for me is ONLY to crop a 1920x1080 from the 4K file. Everyone has their own viewpoint. I think we may see 4K appear quicker than people think.

Ron Evans
distribution is important, actually makes all the difference. DVD is great, but I don't see any difference between the footage of my old XL1 and ea50 (on DVD), and that takes away all the fun (and meaning) of participating in a discussion about video quality.
4K is the future but then it will depend on the media I'll have available. right now there is only the internet and memory cards for better quality. no other options on the horizon. and don't you think that we should be ready with the media to be used to distribute FIRST? 4K monitors will get more and more available, and back we go to the media used to share the video work: DVD? don't think so. bluray is a ghost , nobody saw it and nobody knows what it is. so it's youtube or memory cards . and that's it. computers are the TV of the future, so is 4K , but the media?

Will this PMXW-X70 besides the original NP-FV70 also accept the larger NP-FV100 which is now targeted for use with the HXR-NX30?

Is the rolling shutter that much of a thing? I've been hearing about this crap for years, only ever had a problem with it when dealing with camera flashes.

@Anybody that likes super fast left/right pans...

I keep hearing all the complaints about the Ax100 and A7s concerning rolling shutter durring "whip-fast" pans.

Complaints sound like this: "Watch me jerk my Ax100 or A7s to the left.....see that skew?....a CCD sensor would never do that!..."

If whip pans are your thing, than certainly the Ax100 or A7s is not for you.

Me personally? ....I think fast pans look horrible even on cameras with a global shutter. Why do people insist on demonstrating that problem when nobody really shoots video that way in the real world?

Generally speaking flashes are annoying and maybe skew of very fast moving objects inside a stable frame...those can sometimes look bad. However, I think that all this rolling shutter talk is highly exaggerated.

CT

little sister from PXW-X70 ... the FDR-AX100E ... yes, run well with the (aditionally purchased)
larger NP-FV1000
_____
Hans

Is the rolling shutter that much of a thing? I've been hearing about this crap for years, only ever had a problem with it when dealing with camera flashes.

The rollingshutter on the ax100 and most likely on the x70 can be very nasty but it depends on how you use the camera, in my case it's not a issue at all, I do slow pans or use static shots but if you plan on shooting football games with this camera it can give you unusable shots, I never would use the camera for these type of events. The rolling shutter is quite bad if you have to pan too fast and it gets worse as you zoom in and follow a object.

I think it should be mentioned that the RS does not seem to be quite as bad in the AX100 if shooting 1080p
(actually comparable to a CX/PJ7xx series, based on what I could see in the viewfinders), so the X70 may look "better" and then it remains to be seen how well the 4K upgrade tweaks things.

How is rs on those other cams vs an ex1? Ive done a little everything with ex (no sports but fast moves on broll shots), never noticed any "jello" when reviewing footage.

I think it should be mentioned that the RS does not seem to be quite as bad in the AX100 if shooting 1080p

I should have mentioned that as well, I never shoot 1080p, only 4k with the ax100 but from the online samples I have seen 1080p seems much less affected when it comes to rolling shutter. RS in 4K however is another story depending on your use.

don't have an EX1 or any experience with one, but compared with a PJ760 which generally doesn't seem to generate RS complaints, and in 1080p, the skew visible in the VF was comparable.

In 4K, you definitely want to follow traditional "film rules", not "shake it like ya just don't care". Camera technique becomes more important, and my opinion has always been that with the AX100, if you need "fast motion", the 1080/60p mode should probably be strongly considered if you can't shoot wide and P&C in post.

Sony just posted this video on their youtube channel. this little camera is hitting so many right buttons for events (NDs, dual recording, bigger sensor) convinced it's going to be my next camera. At 3:00 there's a shot of trees with nasty compression but I'm sure it's just youtube.

PXW-X70 (1.0-type CMOS Compact Solid-State Memory Camcorder) Beauty Image - YouTube

That was an incredible video - of course, it was shot by professionals but the images were superb. I don't feel that I will regret selling my PMW 200 and accessories back to B&H in anticipation of receiving the new camera (on preorder) in September. For my purposes (hobbyist) this new camera will be so much more manageable (vacations, family holidays). No more being questioned (or in some instances stopped) about doing a "professional" shoot. Just take off the handle assembly and voila just another handycam! Can't wait.

I am just little confused by this camera, it seems like it has new technology that I would want, I am just not sure how much better it is than my Sony EX1-R..I understand that it may not be better than the EX cameras like the 200 but is it better than mine.

1-How does it compare in regards to light sensitivity?
2-Will the better codecs make it look cleaner than my EX1R footage?
3-Is the lens better?
4-Does anyone know how the iris dial compares to the lens iris on the EX1
5- The Sony EX1R shipped with sort of a flat picture profile and I have tweaked it over time, does this camera have a decent tweaking range?