I can only compare the AX100 that I had for a month before going back to the EX1r

1 a stop (whole) better than the EX1r
2 pretty much the same, only bigger files with the AVCS (much bigger) EX1r = 35mbps AX100=50mbps
3 no way (the fuji is on another planet)
4 it's a matter of getting used to it, not a big deal (if you have small hands)
5 no. the EX1r was made for post, the AX100 gets it right out of the camera, I can't complain, it does get it right.

notes:
the ND filter on the AX100 are brutal, when they engage it will show in the footage, can't do it in a continuous take
there is no zoom speed adjustment with the AX100 . If you use a lanc remote with a speed adjustment then the minimum speed is not slow enough. The EX1r can be jerky but at least the speed adjustment (in camera) is way better.
in my case I couldn't use the AX100 for work at all, then it also depends on how you distribute (MP4 files, DVD, internet). For my needs the EX1r gets the job done better (much better).

It seems to me to be a little like comparing apples with oranges.
I think of the EX-1 as a full-on professional camera with a massive feature set, a highly regarded lens, true manual focus, and etc.
The X70 has very attractive features (in fact, I have one on order), but seems more of a "prosumer" level product.
The one advantage it offers over the EX-1 is the XAVC codec- 4:2:2, 50 mbs, with the promise of 4K to be added later.
Maybe the new PXW-X180- the big version of the X70- might be a more direct comparison to the EX-1.

Thanks

The 180 has three 1/3" sensors -The Sony EX1R has three 1/2 sensors so one sixth bigger
-The X70 has one 1 inch sensor
So which is better?

How much better is the EX1 lens than the X70- I understand that the optical image stabilization of the X70 is better than the EX1R

How many more features does my camera have over the X70-- The X70 seems to have SDI out, picture profiles
There’s a full set of exposure and focus aids including peaking, histogram, zebras etc
The build is solid-seems Pro enough

Because the lens does not have three rings does that make it much harder to work with?

Skipping the checklist of features convo, bottom line with proper picture profile tweaking and good use of exposure would I see a much better looking image out of the X70 than my EX1R in most shooting situations?

Thanks in advance to those who respond

I work a lot with the EX3, which is almost identical to the EX1/1R. I now own a PMW-300.

A bigger sensor gives you better control over the depth of field. I'm thinking the X70 would be better in that regard.
It is one chip compared to three on the EX models. No Bayer filter needed on the EX cameras. Which will be sharper? When the X70 gets its 4K it should be a lot sharper.

The 3-ring lens will always be preferred over a single ring. It just gives you so much more control over the lens features.

The XAVC-S codec is definitely better than the EX models' XDCAM. 10-bit, 4:2:2 is a fantastic feature.

Both the EX1/1R and the X70 lack a timecode in/out. Bummer.

Between the X70 and an EX model,. I'd go for the X70.

I'd like an X70 as a b-camera to my PMW-300, but I definitely prefer my 300 to the X70.

At 3:00 there's a shot of trees with nasty compression but I'm sure it's just youtube.

I just watched the video and the poor quality of that shot jumped out/jarred with me too - otherwise most of the shots look pretty decent HD (for something that's been through the YouTube "mangle").

The studio shots of the finished pieces of glasswork look particularly impressive - considering the cam is only outputting HD resolution at this point in time.

That would've been my big question. . .if this EX1/3 is considered a "fully featured professional cam" and this cam is considered "prosumer," what makes it so? So far only know of a few drawbacks/things it lacks compared to the larger cams:

-12x (relatively short range ) zoom

-one ring on lens

-iris stops down to 4 at longer end of zoom (though EX1 closes down to 2.8 or something, even though the readout doesn't TELL YOU it does this)

-highlight handling

-small size/looks like toy to some clients, maybe. . .I generally don't deal with these types (I hope).

What else? Other than that, seems as fully featured as the larger cams. . .all the menus/profiles/tweakability you could want. XLR inputs, SDI and HDMI out.

The 12X zoom does not seem to be a real drawback with this camera because the digital clear image X24 zoom is good as an optical zoom because of the sensor...So it trumps X14 optical on the EX1R

Is that verified or just from that one review?

This guy is not a fan of digital zoom but he admits that it works in the x70
SONY PXW- X70 A Quick First Impression. - YouTube

The "toy" form factor of the camera would be handy when you just want to look like a tourist, yet you still get the high quality video.

Andrew

from the first clips that are around but made by regular people (not pre-approved by SONY to be clear) I see that the X70 does something that at first I thought was a user error but now I see it everywhere: it has the tendency to stamp the focus on the background even when the frame is filled with faces , still stays on the background and it takes a long time to re-focus. That never happened with my previous AX100.

Most of those times unfortunately I've still needed the tripod, which unfortunately is a red flag to any police or property owners looking to ruin your fun (i.e. all of them.)

What I find so bizarre about this camera is that we all know it's essentially a 'beefed up' AX100. No secrets there. So then why the 'special upgrade' to 4K at an extra cost??? We know the 4K must be in there from the get go, so why is Sony playing games with this camera?

What I find so bizarre about this camera is that we all know it's essentially a 'beefed up' AX100. No secrets there. So then why the 'special upgrade' to 4K at an extra cost??? We know the 4K must be in there from the get go, so why is Sony playing games with this camera?

I wonder if it's because they plan to use XAVC (10-bit) rather than XAVC-S?

I wonder if it's because they plan to use XAVC (10-bit) rather than XAVC-S?

You beat me to the punch - was just going to post the same theory but was doing some research about the uhs2 cards that claim read/write speeds up to 250-280mb/s.

If Sony really wants this to be a professional camera (and they have already indicated that by using XAVC instead of XAVC-S codec) it does not make sense to wait 4-6 months and introduce 4K with the same codec as the AX100 when they could have done that at the get go. IMHO they would loose a lot of credibility if this is just a marketing ploy to get another $500-$700 by "staging" the camera's full features.

My theory is that they are testing/researching using the XAVC codec for 4K and specifying that you need the higher speed cards (which sell in the $250 range for 64GB) . That way we get 4:2:2 and 10 bit for 4K (maybe not 60p due to heat buildup as others have mentioned.).

With the x70 they beefed up the HD alot from the ax100 and cx900. I think they are holding off on the 4k as they are trying to beef that up as well.

Also I don't know if you all noticed but looking at B&H "in the box" it says it includes a shotgun mic. Which is nice considering all the new camcorders (Sony, Panny, Cannon, JVC, etc.) don't seem to include shotguns anymore. Hopefully Sony includes a newer & better Shotgun than they have been putting on their camcorders for the last 4 years (XM1).

The one thing that concerns me about this camera is ... Looking at the Sony Website the Minimum Illumination is listed at 1.7 lux. With a 1 inch Sensor you would think it would be better, but then again it needs a lot more light being that it records at such a high resolution (maybe that's why they made that weird lens hood with light holes behind it). My Z5 was at 1.5 lux and the new NX3 does 1.2 Lux ... Will this camera be worse in low light than previous models? If it is worse will the 1 inch sensor at least make up for it creating darker blacks and less noise?

The one thing that concerns me about this camera is ... Looking at the Sony Website the Minimum Illumination is listed at 1.7 lux. With a 1 inch Sensor you would think it would be better, but then again it needs a lot more light being that it records at such a high resolution (maybe that's why they made that weird lens hood with light holes behind it). My Z5 was at 1.5 lux and the new NX3 does 1.2 Lux ... Will this camera be worse in low light than previous models? If it is worse will the 1 inch sensor at least make up for it creating darker blacks and less noise?

I temporarily have an AX100 and doing some observations (wouldn't really call it testing) between that and my PMW 200. I have found that the observed light levels on the LCD monitor appear the same for both cameras when I use f2.8 as the lowest setting on the 200. In other situations, I have had to use 3-6 db of gain where I didn't have to with the 200. However, I have not observed any noise on 4K up to 12db gain (and that is playing the clips out thru Edius at UHD settings (4K preview card) to a Dell 32" 4K 10 bit monitor.

Also I don't know if you all noticed but looking at B&H "in the box" it says it includes a shotgun mic. Which is nice considering all the new camcorders (Sony, Panny, Cannon, JVC, etc.) don't seem to include shotguns anymore. Hopefully Sony includes a newer & better Shotgun than they have been putting on their camcorders for the last 4 years

I have been impressed with the quality of the internal mic on the AX 100 - on a recent round of test shooting it picked up a small dog barking at least 200 feet away and my talking back and forth with a friend who was 20-30 feet away and without any external hum or wind noise. So, for people who have to go into "stealth mode" (removing upper assembly and shotgun mic temporarily to avoid harassment from authorities or business owners), you will still have decent audio.

...but looking at B&H "in the box" it says it includes a shotgun mic.

I'm wondering if that's not a typo
It says " XLR Handle Unit with Micropone"
Maybe supposed to say "microphone holder"
Also, they list the part/model number for every other included item, but say nothing specific re a microphone.

I hope they sell the pxw-x70 eyecup separately as accessory for the ax100, if not I"ll buy a x70, keep the eyecup and sell the x-70 again. :)

It also seems like the X70 lacks the 720p120fps of the AX100. If that's really the case, I'm hoping the reason is also due to some possible upgrade. This is not based on anything except wishful thinking and pure speculation, but I'd love to see 1080p120fps come with the 4K upgrade.

Does anyone have any specific information about using a LANC remote on the X70? It looks like it just has their new multi A/V port and no 2.5mm LANC jack. I see that Sony offers a couple tripods that come with a wired controller and believe they come with multiple cables to adapt to all their different designs, but I will not be using a tripod. I will be using a fluid head on a tree arm and need remote control over the on/off, start/stop, zoom, and hopefully focus.
I'm hoping there's an option or a workaround for this as it could be a deal breaker for me, and I really like everything else about this camera.

I think everybody follows a wrong assumption.
(quoting from BH)
X70: $2300
CX900: $1500
AX100: $1800
XLR-K1M: $800 (mic adapter with exact same layout as in X70 but without handler)

Judging from pricing, this camera is the pro version of the CX900, because AX100+XLRK1M are more expensive than X70 and have considerably less functionality (except 4K).

So Sony brings an HD pro camera that is better deal than anything else out there and gives you the option to pay more and get 4K whenever you feel you need it. If they follow the same pricing scheme the 4K upgrade will be around $800, because that's the difference between x70 and CX900 and IMO, will not have a better 4K implementation than AX100.

If they choose to have a better codec, the difference in price will be way way bigger.
Although I would have like the idea, personally I doubt.

Remote that will work is the RM-VPR1 Sony RM-VPR1 Remote Control with Multi-terminal Cable RM-VPR1 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/925709-REG/sony_rm_vpr1_remote_control_with_multi_terminal.html/c/product/#inpage:IN+STOCK?gclid=CjwKEAjw4PCfBRCz966N9pvJ4GASJAAEdM_KDSS8pBbgHn2-hXMp0cOcpcnIQ8jD8wSp67MWj7AcThoCSDPw_wcB).

Also the low light level of 1.7 is for slow shutter. At a more normal 1/60 it is 3lux.

Ron Evans

That's the one I found also. It doesn't seem to offer manual focus though. I suppose that's not a deal breaker, but I would think they would offer a remote that would give you full manual controls. I suppose since the X70 has touch focus I can live without it on the remote. It just seems kinda silly to build a camera like this, and then handicap it with something as simple as the LANC function.

You can also use the the WiFi app too.

Just to add to the low light. My AX1 is rated at 4Lux 60P 1/30 equivalent to the 1.7 lux of the X70.

Ron Evans

The Wifi App is something to consider I suppose. I have the App for my GoPro and it seems like every time I need it, it's jacked up and I can't use it so I just can't rely on it.

Since we are looking at the same sensor as the AX100, does anyone know how the AX100 or X70 compares in low light to the XA20? From my understanding the XA20 get's pretty high praise for it's low light capabilities. Something that is very important to me.

The AX100 "LANC" also works with the AVM1 - AV to MULTI adapter - so at least in theory, some other LANC controllers may work. On the never ending AX100 thread it was reported that the cheap Viivitar LANC controller (which does have buttons for focus) worked via adapters... so it MAY be possible to access via LANC.

RM-VPR1 | ? Interchangeable-Lens Cameras | Sony UK (http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras-tripods-remotes/rm-vpr1#related_products_dynamic_default)
VCT-VPR1 | Handycam® Camcorder | Sony UK (http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/handycam-camcorders-tripods-remotes/vct-vpr1)

this both are works for the AX100 and CX900
I have the VCT-VPR1 Remote Control Tripod for the AX100, in cause to the better remote control
the cheap tripod self, I have donate to a grandchild for his photo-cam. and the remote are now relocate on my Video-tripod
who can I fixed the zoom on his least level, and switching on/of the grid lines....

I have a VCT-VPR100 that is not a bad light tripod that comes with 4 interface cables for compatibility with just about all Sony products !!!

Ron Evans

The Wifi App is something to consider I suppose. I have the App for my GoPro and it seems like every time I need it, it's jacked up and I can't use it so I just can't rely on it.

Since we are looking at the same sensor as the AX100, does anyone know how the AX100 or X70 compares in low light to the XA20? From my understanding the XA20 get's pretty high praise for it's low light capabilities. Something that is very important to me.
in 1080 the AX100 is better than the XA20 in low light, half-stop or even more. I had both. The same scene can be shot @ 1/100 on the AX100 while the XA20 needs 1/60 (shutter speed). same DB applied on both.
regarding the lanc I can confirm that the cheap vivirar (lanc) works via the AV-M1 and the 2.5mm to sony av-r cable: zoom , start/stop, zoom speed (8 constant plus variable), on-screen info on-off (but only on the LCD, doesn't work on a monitor via HDMI, focus and ON-Off (CAMERA) . The libec 3DV didn't work (no idea why).

I was wondering if anyone has noticed that there are no provisions on the X70 for mounting a neck/shoulder strap. Perhaps I haven't been observant enough but I have been over every mm of the camera in the hi-res photos on the B&H website and I couldn't see any strap anchors. Of course you could jury rig something through the handle grip but that wouldn't be ideal.

I bought this item and have tried it on my Canon EOS 7 D and it works beautifully with the shoulder strap I used with my PMW 200. I figure with the X70 my hand will be close to the top of camera handle when it is hanging down at my side and I can steady the camera while walking.

Here is the item - expensive but well made - they also make an assembly for sliding the camera up but I wont need that - my regular Porta Brace strap works fine:

Custom SLR C-Loop Camera Strap Mount Solution (Black) CL01B B&H


This is the assembly I mentioned :

Custom SLR Glide Strap with Split Strap Technology | B&H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Custom+SLR+Glide+Strap+with+Split+Strap+Technology&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=)

I also talked with B&H and the latest estimate of camera shipment is the first 7-10 days of September :-)

I noticed I got a few updates to this thread via email but when I clicked the link those responses weren't there? That last post is the first new one that's come through in a few days.

I was wondering if anyone has noticed that there are no provisions on the X70 for mounting a neck/shoulder strap...

Barry, you're observations are correct. It looks the same as the AX100 on which there is only the small ring on the grip's hand strap, not very ideal. For my AX100, I have picked up a Peak Design strap in Singapore (soon available at B&H). I attach to the hand strap and then use the screw in eyelet at the tripod mounting hole to give another attach point. If I attach both ends of the neck strap to the handle ring, then it pulls the camera to one side. Attaching to the ring and the tripod stud still pulls the camera off center but a little more manageable. Trying to think of how to rig something better...

Peak Design Slide Camera Strap SL-1 B&H Photo Video

Mark

I had noticed the lack of attachment points for a strap also. I guess Sony decided that the form factor on this smaller camcorder didn't need a strap. A little disappointing to me too. I have a really cool strap the is like a bungee cord that allows me to put positive down force on the camera while walking to help smooth out the walking motion. It works really well. I'm sure I can figure out a way to make it work though.

The NX30U, one of the cameras the X70 will replace, also has no the provision for a strap.

Ron Evans

I had noticed the lack of attachment points for a strap also. I guess Sony decided that the form factor on this smaller camcorder didn't need a strap. A little disappointing to me too. I have a really cool strap the is like a bungee cord that allows me to put positive down force on the camera while walking to help smooth out the walking motion. It works really well. I'm sure I can figure out a way to make it work though.

Using the Custom SLR C Loop Mount the camera will hang upside down (attached to the tripod mount) and my hand should be even with the handle on the camera. I should be able to steady the camera for walking and bring it up to shooting position with a minimum of hastle.

I should have the camera by the end of this week - if this system works, I'll post a pic.

I had emailed a certain company that produces Sony instructional videos asking if they planned one for the X70 and it was hinted (by Sony) that they should wait until IBC before proceeding with future plans. Wouldn't it be interesting if they were bringing out something with specs like the PMW 200 that could do 4K??

I had emailed a certain company that produces Sony instructional videos asking if they planned one for the X70 and it was hinted (by Sony) that they should wait until IBC before proceeding with future plans. Wouldn't it be interesting if they were bringing out something with specs like the PMW 200 that could do 4K??

Or how about a Z100 with the X70's 1" sensor? It would lose some of the zoom range, but it should increase the light sensitivity. That would be a fair trade off.

The obvious choices would be a 4K version of the VG30 and/or EA50. The EA50 body would be big enough for XQD slots and a fan !!! Though Sony Alpharumors is suggesting a replacement for the FS100 to compete with the Canon C100 .

Ron Evans

in 1080 the AX100 is better than the XA20 in low light, half-stop or even more. I had both. The same scene can be shot @ 1/100 on the AX100 while the XA20 needs 1/60 (shutter speed). same DB applied on both.
regarding the lanc I can confirm that the cheap vivirar (lanc) works via the AV-M1 and the 2.5mm to sony av-r cable: zoom , start/stop, zoom speed (8 constant plus variable), on-screen info on-off (but only on the LCD, doesn't work on a monitor via HDMI, focus and ON-Off (CAMERA) . The libec 3DV didn't work (no idea why).

Somehow I missed this comment earlier. Thanks for the info. That certainly is a big factor for my type of shooting. Thank you for confirming that I will be able to make it work.

Somehow I missed this comment earlier. Thanks for the info. That certainly is a big factor for my type of shooting. Thank you for confirming that I will be able to make it work.
Stephen are you considering the AX100 or X70? the major reason that made me go back to EX1r and sell the AX100 was the degradation of the footage panning. at 1080 was visible but at 4K was too much. I'm not talking about the rolling shutter, I'm talking about the blur that starts showing the moment you pan. that's mainly due to the internal sharpening , not adjustable on the AX100 .Now the X70 gives the picture profiles where you can dial the sharpening (detail) down and hopefully the frequency and crispness (NR) like in the EX1r, and that makes a difference panning. In few days we all will see , I have the X70 on pre-order. What I said about the lanc was about the AX100, not the X70. again in few days I'll be able t confirm if it works on the X70 as well.

Got confirmation that while the X70 can record 30p in both HD resolutions... it does not output 30p over SDI. Bummer...and complete missed opportunity by Sony on this when the XF205 will. I asked to pass this known fact onto appropriate Sony channels... maybe there is a slither of a chance it will come at release or inserted into the 4k/streaming upgrade.

You mean to a recording device or even to a monitor? You can't monitor 30p?

I would guess that it's 29.97psf over over 60i. (Both top and bottom field are sliced from the exact same progressive frame...so when combined again, they match the original frame) This would be 2:2 pulldown on any Atomos recorder.

So, you get the "30p" look and progressive quality just wrapped in industry common standard 60i for transport.

Dunno...just a guess.

Got confirmation that while the X70 can record 30p in both HD resolutions... it does not output 30p over SDI. Bummer...and complete missed opportunity by Sony on this when the XF205 will. I asked to pass this known fact onto appropriate Sony channels... maybe there is a slither of a chance it will come at release or inserted into the 4k/streaming upgrade.

3G hd-sdi isn't incredibly well supported for a number of reasons. Hdmi is better set up for 30p as a consumer interface.

30p is NOT a 1.5G HDSDI standard, never has been and never will be. This is not a Sony limitation, it is an industry wide limitation because 30p and 25p were not in use when the 1.5G HDSDI standards were laid down. So to be compliant with industry standards most cameras use PsF.
The standard for 30p over HDSDI is 30psf, a signal that electronically is identical to 60i but actually contains a true progressive stream.

The X70 outputs 30p over HDSDI using PsF, like just about every other camera.

HDSDI is so much better than HDMI. It's 10 bit, 422. The connector won't just fall out, and is much more reliable.

so this issue is a non- issue?

It's a non-issue. Something Sony has already done nicely on their other cameras for a long time.

Nothing wrong with 29.97 psf. It's the best of both worlds. You get 100% of the progressive look you need and can still transport it over the industry normal 60i standard. A 2:2 pulldown is basically lossless. It just joins the top and bottom fields back to it's original 30p source frame. (no pixels lost, no motion artifacts)

It's a win/win situation!

(The only theoretical problem could maybe arise if the system tried to pull a top field from frame "5" and a bottom field from frame "6" and try to join them together...ehhh, I doubt that would ever happen)

CT

X70 Operation Manual is now online: http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/support/operation-manual/1237493097718