Hi Guys

I have two receivers on my A-Cam which feed via a passive mixer into right and left channels of the camera input ... Audio is pretty darn good but I was wondering if it's better to leave the limiter in the menu off : Here is the scenario that might cause me an issue .. I have a mic on the groom into transmitter 1 and then another mic on a small light stand that points at the PA speaker so I have backup audio on the right channel ... Now, more often than not the signal on the right channel (being a PA speaker) is heaps louder than the groom's voice so what I think is happening is the limiter looks at BOTH channels and because it sees a BIG output from the right channel (the PA system) it attenuates the whole input (as in both channels) so my mic on the groom also gets attenuated .....Has anyone seen this and do you leave the limiter on or off ??? My mixer has level controls so I can easily crank down the PA input substantially so it doesn't cause the camera to think the audio input is too high.

When I look at the levels on the LCD they are both pretty normal but I'm guessing that is because the limiter is doing it's job??

Any comments as to what you are setting for audio??

Hi Chris,

I usually have the camera audio set for auto, but I tend to use the portable recorders, so camera audio is only for sync and fall back. The compressor is a limiter/compressor, so will always keep the audio to a maximum ceiling and will compress bot channels according to the overall highest level. Otherwise if both were compressed independently, the stereo sound in normal recording would appear to move around and not have fixed positioning. As you suggested, taking the auto off will enable you to keep volumes the same, but you may need to ride the volume for unexpected peaks, or record below the normal level.

I only take audio to the camera if I am using a stereo input, so don't use channels independently like you.

Roger

Thanks Roger

I'll do a little test and put my second channel up against the office radio speaker so the right channel is significantly louder ...trouble is at a wedding the groom mic sounds perfect BUT this is before the 2nd mic is getting any input ...I'm pretty sure both levels are reduced equally when the camera detects a high output so I'll set input levels to +6db and then use the mixer controls to drop levels accordingly and see if the balance is better .. Have another wedding on Sunday so I can also test in a real time environment also ! I have to use both inputs as more often than not our celebrants stand away from the couple for the first part of the ceremony and only move up close for the vows!

I don't usually worry about varying levels in the speeches, as I apply a compressor and/or leveler at the editing stage to bring the audio to a more constant level. There is also more control over compression at the editing stage than there is in the camera, where you are usually stuck with a fixed setting.

Roger

Thanks Roger

I don't have any issue with moderately changing levels ! It is just when I have one mic on the groom and the other facing the PA speaker that the levels are drastically different so the camera limiter pulls the whole audio level down so the +12db level of the PA is pulled down to -6db and of course the "normal" -6db on the groom mic then drops to -18db via the limiter!! Disaster on the groom mic but the PA audio is perfect!! Problem is that IF the celebrant doesn't use his mic for the vows I have no audio!!!

Yep that was the issue! I have the limiter off now and balance the inputs of each channel via the little passive mixer ...I stuck a mic right in close to the radio in the office and clipped a lav on myself on the other channel and the limiter sees the loud output from the radio and clamps down both channels! With the limiter off you can see the right channel going into the red all the time so on the mixer I have the right channel at around 25% and the left channel (groom mic) up around 75% before it starts peaking (that means my camera input levels are a bit high so I'll down the level back to 0db instead of +6db!!

I could of course simply place my "celebrant mic" further away to balance the levels but then it tends to also pick up audience noise and more ambient noise too.

Glad you got that sorted Chris, camera limiters have their uses but can also be a pain as you've found.

Roger

Did a wedding yesterday and the FZ1000 with the limiters off is a different animal .. the limiter pulls the signal down more than I realised!! With limiter off and the input level reduced from +6db to 0db the groom mic still needed some hefty level correction on the mixer! However with the limiter off balancing both channels is easy now and doesn't affect the other channel if one is high and one is low.

Sounds good Chris, still enjoying the camera then?

Roger

Hey Roger

Absolutely!! I'm using the square block focus on the main camera too so I get perfect focus and having zoom resume on is also useful so if I turn the cam off during register signing (I use the 2nd cam handheld for that) it will remember the zoom settings.

I however need to organise a more fancy mixer for the two receivers as mine is a simple passive one and the pots make a noise on the track if you adjust the levels whilst recording .. maybe I need a simple op amp mixer that is battery powered so the controls are not directly in the signal line? I must admit a fancy mixer might be nice especially with LED/LCD level displays so I can adjust easily without having to squint thru the EVF to see what the levels are! I could get a Beachtek unit with all the bells and whistles but shucks they cost almost the same as the camera!!!!

We have a break now until the month end and then back into weddings from the 30th onwards

Have a great Christmas and hope it's not to cold and wet in the UK over the festive season!!

I'm still delighted with the camera, using it for both stills and video and have no regrets investing in two FZ1000s. I'm still finding new things out about using it, but I am now confident enough to know that it will always give me a good end product. Still using my Panny video cams, but more as b cams now.

Weather in the UK has been unusually mild for this time of year, but as a result also very wet with a lot of flooding in the northern areas. It's likely to be a wet rather than white Christmas.. Enjoy your break Chris, although we will be doing our music work including Christmas Day.

Roger

We had some guests at last Sunday's wedding from Liverpool and a bit further North and they told me about the floods too!!

My son in South Africa has bought himself an FZ200 (FZ1000's are way too pricey he says) so I'm also throwing a few hints his way.

I think I have the answer regarding mixers ...the saramonic units from China make some really nice adapters which have XLR inputs on unit level controls with peaking lights plus a headphone amp all built in!

Enjoy the festive season!

Found this Chris, could be the answer to your dreams. Fantastic price for the facility it offers, 4 separately
controlled and recorded input channels including 2 XLR inputs, twin recording for a safety track, headphone monitoring, output to camera for reference and synch track, internally powered and a well respected manufacturer. Looks like my first purchase for the new year!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tascam-DR-60DMK2-DR60D-MKII-Portable-recorder/dp/B00O0YCUNC/ref=pd_sim_sbs_23_6?ie=UTF8&dpID=517wAzoTD2L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=1AMFD8KRYSZSDF7A4N88

Roger

Better get the dr70, I believe it has somewhat the same functionality but is in a much smaller package, I have the dr60 but it adds quite some bulk.

The Tascam is really nice I must admit but I'm getting a Saramonic SRAX107 .. it has XLR and Phantom power plus visual level meters and peaking lights and a headphone output and mounts under the camera so that will suffice for now ..I just need to be able to have accurate input levels and for $149 on special it's worth a try! It was $229 so a lot cheaper than the Beachtek .. If I was up to spend nearly $400 then the Tascam DR60 would be awesome but that's half the price of the camera.

I'll give you my opinion (good or bad) once I try it out!!

The dr60 mark II is only 160 dollar now at b&h and you get a free copy of Sony Sound Forge Pro 11, the best thing about this unit is that it can send the audio straight to the camera as well.

Wow!! Over here it's $379.00!!! Big difference .. if only we could get it for $160 !!!

In the UK, the D60 is cheaper than the Saramonic, which is a make I am not familiar with whereas Tascam are well known and respected. Apart from that, there is one really big advantage of the D60, which puts it streets ahead for my useage which is that it is a 4 track recorder aswell as a mixer so each audio input has it's own separate record track or two different cards at different levels for dual stereo tracks. In addition there is output to the camera and visual controls and meters for each channel. The ability to mix the audio levels in post is so useful

Seems a no brainier for me particularly if you can get it for the same price or less as the Saramonic two channel mixer.

Here's the link to the Tascam site, the video tells you quite a lot. Product: DR-60DMKII | TASCAM (http://tascam.com/product/dr-60dmkii/)

Roger

The Saramonic is £169 in the UK compared to £145 for the Tascam D60 Mk2. The D60 is also available through eBay for even less, so could be worth you buying that way.

Roger

Amazon UK say they cannot deliver to Australia as it's a UK only deal for 140 which is about $300 here ...Wow so the unit I'm getting is less than 67 pounds in the UK (that's AUS$149.00) We have the very basic ones here with 2 x XLR's for as little as $39.00 but they are passive units only ..no headphone out and no level display either. The 107 unit from Amazon is indeed more pricey at GBP 169.95 so the DR60 is a way better buy I agree!! If I could buy the 107 from Amazon it would be $352.00 before shipping (if they could ship) so I would grab a DR60 Roger at that price most definitely!!

On eBay here they are $379.00 and free postage which is still more than twice the price of the 107 .. might look at one still!!

Just a quick point regardless of which XLR adapter you get it doesn't mount correctly on the FZ1000 because the camera's tripod thread has been offset 15mm to the right of normal ...I had to make a small plate with a countersunk 1/4" screw and a 1/4" thread 15mm to the left (looking at the back of the camera so it sits correctly ... Other DSLR's have the thread in the middle of the LCD (like my Nikons) .. I wonder if the GH series cameras have the thread in the correct place???

The GH camera's have the same problem.

Hmmm I wonder why they do that? How do you get the GH4 aligned correctly on the Tascam Noa??? ..My issue was that I have receivers that slide on either side of my SRAX adaptor and if I use the tripod hole the camera sticks out to one side and fouls the second receiver so I had to make up the plate to centralise the camera ...it now aligns perfectly thank goodness

I gave you the wrong info because I was thinking about the batterygrip that you can get with the gh4 where the tripodplate screwhole is totally offset which made it impossible to get it balanced on my steadicam, on the camera itself though the hole is exactly in the middle of the lensmount but not in the middle of the lcd, not sure if that is the same on the fz1000?

I just measured the tripod plate thread position and it is 3.5mm off the center line. It is 72mm from one side and 65mm from the other. I wouldn't think that would make a great deal of difference to mounting the camera, although when I get mine, it will go alongside the camera on my double mount plate.

Roger

Hey Roger

Yep it's only a tiny bit offset BUT mount it on the adapter and it offsets to the left by 15mm not 3.5mm ...Is this an optical illusion??? Not really it's the fact that most DSLR cameras have the LCD offset a tiny bit to the left of the body so they place the tripod thread exactly in the middle of the LCD so it sits correctly on the tripod ...adapters are the same ..If I mount my Nikon on the audio adapter it's perfect ...because the FZ thread is to the right of the LCD and not directly in the middle, the already offset adapter screw kicks it over by 15mm ... If you are mounting on the tripod array and not putting the camera on top then you don't have any issues.

Hi Chris,

Not sure I understand you as the screw on my tripod adapter plate is in the center not offset, or are you referring to your own adapter plate or the Tascam camera mount?

Roger

Hi Roger

Most if not all DSLR shaped cameras do not have the lens protruding from the exact centre of the body .. they have more body on the right (to house controls) than the left side so although the tripod screw thread is directly under the lens and usually in the centre of the LCD if an audio adapter had it's mounting point in the exact centre of it's housing when you mounted your camera on top of the adapter, it wouldn't be central. Because of this adapters that mount under cameras also have their mounting point offset so the body sits squarely over the adapter with no overlap. The only difference with the FZ1000 is that the thread is offset more than normal on the body ... If I put my Nikons on the Saramonic adapter is sits dead centre but the FZ1000 sits 15mm too much to the left ... It's no real big deal but I'm using the slide mounts on each side of the adapter for wireless receivers and they need to to clear of the camera body!

Chris

Just a bit of feedback here on the AX107 adapter. Works very well and the LCD display has a nice BIG display so you can easily see your levels even with tired old eyes like mine ! My mics give a nice output to the camera which I left set at 0db and in Sony Vegas the levels are pretty much where I want them at around -6db ... I tried pushing the levels hard so the peaking LED's keep coming on and it sends the signal to over 0db with a huge waveform yet virtually no distortion even though the Vegas meters go into the red. The peaking lights are a huge asset !! You can see them even on a sunny day and they flash brightly to warn you that levels are much too high. Nice to have a stereo headphone output again for both channels at the same time instead of having to swap the headphone jack from one receiver to the other.

OK I know it doesn't have any record function like the Tascam units but here it's half the price and all controls are on the facia ... you have two gain levels on the pre-amps ..0db (unity gain) and then a +20db for really low output mics ... for desk feeds you have line out again with two levels of gain and for phantom mics there is a choice of 12v or 48v which is useful

Sounds like a good buy for you Chris and hearing both channels of audio together while monitoring is a must to get the balance right. I'm looking forward to getting the Tascam in the new year for the same reason.

Roger

Thanks Roger

Keep us up to date on your experiences next year when you get the Tascam! Are you still using the Boya wireless mics at events?? Are they still working well ..my son wants a cheap wireless setup for weddings in South Africa and I mentioned that you use the Boya and get good results?

If we don't chatter before this Friday have a great Christmas and New Year

Chris

Hi Chris,

Will definitely report back on the Tascam when I get it.

Yes still using my two Boya wireless mics and they have given me no trouble at all. Used them for this December round of Christmas nativities and have been very pleased with the results. I usually use a backup portable recorder aswell, as I just don't totally trust wireless, but they have never let me down. I keep a couple off sets of Eneloop batteries to use with them which power the units for 2-3 hours. I've also been surprised that I never seem to pick up any hum or interference with the system.

Roger